X3 - Reunion

Let the flames roll in...
Err... yeah, well I suppose you can talk about other stuff as well, maybe?

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Neskiairti
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X3 - Reunion

Post by Neskiairti »

well I was showing vegastrike to some one.. and they were like "oh it sucks, X3 reunion is so much better!" i smirked and patted him on the head. he obviously hadnt played it :P

but anyhow, got me curious in the X series.. seems X1 and X2 were almost complete failures.. how was X3? lots of reviews.. but none of it really gave me much of an idea..
sure all of them said the game was beautiful.. and it actually -gasp- posessed nutonian physics..

so has anyone played it? it seems fairly similar to vegastrike.. in some forms.

anyhow.. i know VS has pleanty of bugs and rough edges.. but most of those are things that would be easily fixed up with python scripting.. for storyline and such.. the core of the game.. is gold.. i have to hand it to all the programmers who put the time in to it..
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Post by drvoke »

I LOVE X3. But the game becomes very complex very fast. But the best thing about X3 is that eventually, you can run an entire empire, own and build bases. Eventually, you can command fleets of ships of all different classes and wage total war against the other factions, or simply run a very successful trading empire with your own factories with dedicated fleets of trade ships.

The ships you own can be set to automatically run trade routes, defend sectors, etc. The beginning is slow and plodding however, as you trade and trade and trade and trade, and you need LOTS of money to do the more interesting things.

X3 doesn't suck, but it's certainly something that ought to appeal to vegastrike players.
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Post by Neskiairti »

ahh.. sadly my system would not be able to run X3... it has trouble with vegastrike 0.5.0 (mostly due to OpenGL i think) and a few other issues..

im going to give X2 a try.. supposedly it sucks pretty bad in many ways.. but has the same core features that X3 does.. so... we will see. ^-^
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Post by loki1950 »

Looks like it's become a money tree for the publisher :wink: a la WoW which kinda sucks on my wallet if you know.

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Post by johnnywas »

I have played vegastrike and X3.

X3 is a nice game and has a great forum - the game is much improved since various patches

it's quite difficult to get the hang of the controls but is fun when you have remote traders and a small fleet
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Post by Xit »

I've played it a little too, it's partly a good replacement for Frontier, but doesn't seem to have any planets that you can visit and just travelling between the stations can get boring after a while. As there are no fullscreen menus, you just feel trapped in ship all the time.

Also the communications are pretty limited, and while it supports time compression, 'hyperspace' is only done by a network of jumpgates the same way as Freelancer, which takes out some of the fun for me, as does the automatic docking at a fixed distance, when I'd rather do it manually...

Controls are great though, allowing independant movement in 3 dimensions, and so are the graphics. Not yet sure how combat will work as I haven't got that far, but it seems like the ship is quite agile and you could pull off complex manuevers yourself without some poor UI getting in the way. Worth a look since it sells for about £5 most places now.
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Post by Neskiairti »

well now that i have a system that can run shit (amazing what a PCI video card can do for you :P) ive been playing X3.. I love it.. reminds me of things like privateer.. and even the old S/NES game uncharted waters...

combat is pretty awesome.. though yeah everything being automated (if you want it) is both an annoyance and kinda helpful at times.. :P hell i can auto fly.. auto fight.. auto dock.. set my fleet on auto trading... and just sit in SETA (their time acceleration) and let the money roll in.. (atleast untill some pirate picks a fight with a vestle)

of course there are a few things that annoy me to no end... the character moddling.... -shudders- its disgusting.. complete failure.. they shoulda gone with either drawings.. or real people... and then the name of the unknown alien race.. 'kha'ak' -.- my room mates wont stop laughing about the guy put in intensive care by the 'kha'ak'
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Post by Xit »

Hehehe I know! The opening intro is laughable as all the people look like robots, and there really was no reason they had to go with Cack, unless the designers had a sense of humour :wink:

I haven't played much of the story though, I remembered the storyline of Freelancer and Independence war 2 getting in the way so I just played the Explorer scenario (though I don't really see how there can be any exploring as such...)
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Post by Neskiairti »

the X3 storyline isnt bad.. espcially after the 2.0 patch when they expanded it..
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Post by Phlogios »

Yeah I hate how the story was lined up in Freelancer. Like, right when you start the game you get employed by some wierd powerful chick and there is no way to escape it. Games like this shouldn't be linear. The EV series is great in the way it handles storylines.
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Post by vodalian »

I think some things about X3 are pretty neat, like the dynamic economy and graphics. What would be ultimate would be a combination of VS and X3. It's kinda funny, what vegastrike is missing, X3 has, and what X3 is missing, vegastrike has.. For instance, vegastrike has a dynamic universe with fluctuating relations, wars, system conquering etc, yet it has a pretty static economy, whereas x3 has a pretty static faction/relations system, but a very dynamic economy.
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Post by Neskiairti »

plus.. vegastrike has planets (and looks like their trying to push towards even more stuff planetside..) and X3 is only space stations.. (which they did DAMN well) VS... needs better landing situations on stations :P then again.. so does X3 some times.. >.> twice launching from a station i got jammed agains the hull of it... and boom.. luckily.. it auto saves when ever you land :P
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Post by vodalian »

Neskiairti wrote:plus.. vegastrike has planets (and looks like their trying to push towards even more stuff planetside..) and X3 is only space stations.. (which they did DAMN well) VS... needs better landing situations on stations :P then again.. so does X3 some times.. >.> twice launching from a station i got jammed agains the hull of it... and boom.. luckily.. it auto saves when ever you land :P
Yeah, that's one big problem with x3, another thing which I really hate is how each sector is connected using the lables "North" "East" "South" and "West" .. That just doesn't make sense in a space game. That combined with the small and cluttered sectors really makes this game feel claustrophobic.
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Post by Neskiairti »

yeah.. they really needed to do away with the gates as they are.. at most 2 gates per system.. generally only one in most innerworlds.. while there should be none in the outerworlds.. except maybe a few threads that people trade.. (meaning more reliance on the jump engine... and learning the co-ords of systems)

systems should defenately be larger too... for sure.. and the planet should be in the center of the system if there is a planet :P with stations orbiting the planet..
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Post by Obsidiandesire »

I always considered Vega strike more of a beta version of X3...

I mean, it's very similar in many ways, but The planets thing really sucks =[

I even tried the script editor in X3 to give me constantly recharging shields and went into the planet in the right kinda way (at least what works in Orbiter) and the game just crashed =/

X3 does have more realistic distances though (which vegastrike lacks, hence why I LOVE the Sol system :)

In short, both amazing games, just in seperate ways.

Oh, and X3's ships are cooler IMO (ever flown a "buster" right next to argon one?)

Ever noticed how apart from the Cack :P, they're named after stuff like elements (Argon, Boron, etc)
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Post by loki1950 »

Welcome Obsidiandesire vegastrike is a bit easier to hack though :wink:

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Post by Neskiairti »

uh.. you mean more 'fun' distance.. the distance in X3 is completely unrealistic :P where as VS has almost realistic distance..
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Post by elli222 »

its a non-multiplayer clone of FreeLancer ( i have both ) with funky shiney new graphics and lots of lights. oh and a brain-dead economy
(VS's Economy pwns X3's- wich is literally "sell space cows to pie factory, then sell space cow pies to silicon chip factory+sell crystals to silicon chip factoy, sell chips to power plant factory" but in game its "Sell Argon Cows to Meatsteak cahoonah factory, sell meatstake cahoonas to silicon wafer factory+sell crystals to silicon wafer factory, sell silicon wafers to power plant factory")

Freelancer Vs X3 Vs Vegastrike

Multiplayer? FreeLancer- YES X3- NO Vegastrike- YES*
Graphics? FreeLancer- Outdated X3- WTFPWNAGE Vegastrike- Good
Economy? Freelancer- Good X3- AWFUL Vegastrike- Good (!!!)
Compatibility?
Freelancer- Dosent recognise modern Gfx cards, but will run under them, dunno if there is a mac version- probably is Most certianly no *nix versions

X3- Modern Gfx cards detected but there IS NO OTHER VERSIONS OTHER THAN WINDOWS

Vegastrike- Modern Gfx cards dectected and is available to ALL OS's




* the VS multiplayer is available only in the BETA and it dosent seem to work for me :(
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Post by loki1950 »

* the VS multiplayer is available only in the BETA and it dosent seem to work for me Sad
It would help if there was a sever online :wink: but there is not at this time ace123 will post a notice when it is ready still stomping bugs and play issues i gather from the svn commit logs.

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Post by Neskiairti »

maybe I'm biased, but the economy isnt /that/ bad.. :P sure I could wish for some /real/ economics.. but, the focused mainly on the massive part of it and the playable part of it.. not the economics.. it works.. its not horrible like some games ive played... and it scales fairly well with the arc of gameplay.. from buying and selling.. to producing and selling.. to mass producing to produce other things to produce other things in a mega complex... and then shipping your high end products to your factory to produce tons and tons of uber powerful ships....
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Post by ace123 »

There is actually a privateer gold server and a temporary vegastrike server (for debugging) running thanks to Steelrush from Privateer. Unfortunately it has a habit of crashing from various things :-p
But we'll figure something out after the release... maybe I'll put a "server status" section on the homepage, or use my desktop machine to host somthing.

True, the economy works as it is for what you need it for (it has prices and some variance throughout the galaxy and systems), but it would allow for interesting campaigns or gameplay if it linked in with the dynamic universe.
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Post by Neskiairti »

yeah.. random planetary and system events could be quite interesting..

but keeping them realistic of course..

for instance.. a planet has a population of 2.4 billion... and there is an earth quake under water that causes a tsunami... and so the area needs disaster releif.. so certain things go up.. but what was produced along those areas would dry up completely, and may even require more of that as well..

on the other hand, transporting people away from there, would be a money maker :P
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Re: X3 - Reunion

Post by Aacron »

Well, this is an old topic... was looking in google for something to mess around with. Just played "Space Force:Rogue Universe" to get my space sim fix, and although the game runs smoothly, and the graphics are pretty good, the game itself lacks. Basically two days of wasted time, and mainly cause I was trying to find the time and cloaking device parts, which turns out, the publisher goofed and didn't have two pieces in the game. The story could have been much better, though I didn't like the linear-ness of it, nor the poor voice acting and mistranslation and stuff... they need an editor to read through the dialogues for proper English translation!

Anyhow, yeah -- X2 and X3 were really good games, to me. I absolutely LOVE the scripting engine, how you can buy ships and get the AI pilot to do its thing, station building and management... basically a very complex game, with a mostly usable interface that makes it pretty simple to manage. You start the game with a very 'set' plot, but you can opt out of it, and just go freelance, or there are points in the main plot where the story waits for you to complete an action before it continues, and you can then go about money making, bounty hunting, trading, station/empire building, and so on. It really is a good game, and I played X2 first, loved it other than a few annoying bugs and interface issues, which in turn got me to get X3, which expands on X2, ditches some of the annoyances, adds a few others, but overall an awesome game. Vanilla X3 is good, but I'd highly suggest once you play the story once, you should try X3: XTM (eXTended Mod). As well as a few scripts to help you out (I have a ton of trading scripts, and a few smarter turret AI scripts for my capital class ships [X2-AEGIS, X3-MARS or xOneTCS], or add much needed features.

One of the biggest things I like about the X series is the actual living universe, where you leave a sector, and it still is running. No 'magically appearing' crap (well, limited anyways). If you are in Argon Prime, every ship and station are still 'live' in paranid Prime, or Kingdoms End, as well as every other sector. Jump drive aside (I kinda wish VS has something kinda similar, but not *quite* the same), if the player wants to go from one station to another, you would leave, head to the jump gate, and keep trekking along till you get to the sector the destination station is in, fly to it, dock, and all that jazz. Thing that I like is that the AI does the same EXACT thing. No magically appearing resources, either. Station sends out a ship to buy some resource, and that ship dies, it has to send out another. If that happens too often, and the station doesn't have enough of the resources to build its product, the product doesn't get built. The game starts with a very broken economy as well. You kinda have to take a peek around at the stations and figure out what it will take to kick-start things. In X2, it was energy cells. Get a good SPP (Solar Power Plant) set of stations going, and you fix the economy... and make a damned nice profit doing so. (In X's defense, whoever said X's economy model was bad earlier must not have traded enough to find out where the economy was broken to fix it, or gotten any of the economy fixing mods, one of the few games I *don't* see [too many] goods magically appear in every station on its own)

There are a few things that can be annoying with X2/3 though. The 'sectors' and the universe are small. Too small. And FLAT. The flight dynamic is not Newtonian at all, more like an atmospheric flight model. Granted, I don't want a 100% Newtonian model, but i think they went too far with taking the physics out. Oddly SF:RU wasn't too bad of a model, but still think VS has the best flight model so far. Anyhow, one other things that is a huge annoyance is the freaking power-hungry engine. Holy crap X2/3 can eat a computer alive... especially in capital-ship battles with all the bullets flying around. I understand that the game *is* processing OOS (out of sector) stuff for every ship, but the main hit is with the graphics. SF:RU looks really nice as far as the graphics, and doesn't get eaten alive for it, which is something that I hope the guys at egosoft can manage next time around. And in X2/3, ships *do* magically get spawned by a hard-coded "GOD" event system that tries to keep the empires running, something that infinitely annoys me cause I was trying for a while to make the empires and economy more "realistic", like they can't just magically have stations and ships appear in a sector that you'd basically taken over and start wiping you out (big problem in Xenon sectors, not quite so bad in X3 as it is in X2).

I can definitely say that X3 is enjoyable despite its annoyances though. I just hope that Vegastrike can get to a point where it can outclass the X:series. Hopefully without taking 30 years to do so :P Now, I'm not un-realistically griping. I know that VS is a free program made with people's free time, and that the programmers and designers and various other people have to study, work, eat, sleep, spend time with family and friends, fornicate with the gf/bf... just sometimes it gets to me that VS shows so much promise, but moves at a snails' pace. Just wish I had a lick of coding experience to help out. I can script... but not code :P Make me a scripting engine that can do any and everything, kinda like X, but better in that *nothing* is hard-coded. [Death to GOD!]

I'd love to see everything scriptable, from combat control, to trading, missions, everything. If someone can make the AI smarter, then they can script it in. If someone wants to come up with a better economy model, they can. I'd personally be all over economy and empire AI. Maybe even some of the flight/fight AI. We'd basically have a semi-static few systems, and then the rest generated at the beginning of a new game (which should be stored in it's own profile, not in the main game!!). So then, you'd have the main empire/faction sectors with set starting bases and goods, and enough resources for the beginning economy for each empire. Then the scripted AI could define rules on how they expand...

(I'm stopping this post cause I'm wandering now. Play X2&3 -- they're awesome games!!)
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Re: X3 - Reunion

Post by Sindwiller »

I agree with most points. I'm playing X3 Terran Conflict right now and I LOVE it :) Especially because of the newly added quest and campaign system. I recently got into a Kha'ak extermination campaign (basically insects that jump into random sectors and kill everything) when I met this character from previous X games and he talked me into this. Then came a Xenon invasion in the nearby sector and now I'm 600k credits richer :D Next thing I have to do is to plant a recon satellite in a Kha'ak sector (tricky).
Too small. And FLAT.
X3 fixed this half-way through. There are some really big sectors (150 km gate distance and stuff) with weird gate positions, but also pretty small ones, Kingdom End for example, but then again, that is a really beautiful sector and I love its theme :) I personally like the way X sectors are designed - most of them with their distinctive style and economical purpose etc. -, although a system design similar to Freelancer but on a much larger scale and with more traffic and dynamics would be pretty interesting.
he flight dynamic is not Newtonian at all, more like an atmospheric flight model. Granted, I don't want a 100% Newtonian model, but i think they went too far with taking the physics out.
That's what one of the things that drive me nuts in Vega Strike (and one of the reasons why I can't play it). You turn on SPEC and SWOOSH you're way beyond the other side of the system still drifting for a minute. The only game that has more realistic (read 'worse) flight physics is Terminus. I trashed that game after 5 minutes, you don't even get to play the game because of all the calculations you have to make when flying :X I would've went rampage and destroyed my computer if I'd been forced to play it one any longer :P
Anyhow, one other things that is a huge annoyance is the freaking power-hungry engine. Holy crap X2/3 can eat a computer alive... especially in capital-ship battles with all the bullets flying around. I understand that the game *is* processing OOS (out of sector) stuff for every ship, but the main hit is with the graphics. SF:RU looks really nice as far as the graphics, and doesn't get eaten alive for it, which is something that I hope the guys at egosoft can manage next time around.
Isn't that much of a problem anymore with today's hardware imho :)
Welcome Obsidiandesire vegastrike is a bit easier to hack though
Yeah, uhm, as far as I know, you can hack ship stats and money easily, as for scripting however, 80% of the functions are undocumented and most of the existing code doesn't make sense to me :P On X's side however, you can easily write and add scripts for ship management, missions/campaigns etc.
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Re: X3 - Reunion

Post by Neskiairti »

dredging this topic back up again... :P

I started playing X3:TC the other day.. they fixed alot of the problems i had with X3... and mods did the rest... that game is close to unplayable without modding it IMO :P

but anyway, its quite fun, and i have to agree about the flight mechanics, they are crude.. even Continuum has better mechanics XD bullet tracking is a joke.. missiles blow up in your face as soon as you launch them if your being shot at... even if the missile fires from your nose and your being hit in the rear :P

(found a mod to fix the missiles.. not arming them untill they are 200m away from the ship)

then trying to dog fight... guns dont track right.. they are supposed to.. but some ships, if you fire.. your likely going to miss the enemy all together.. while they fly through the center of your bullet spam :P except the computer hits you easily.. more effective is just a single gun, and turning off aiming.. might take a while to whittle away their shield and hull.. but atleast your going to hit with every shot.

i do enjoy it though.. as ive already annhilated everything you can possibly do in freelancer, and even modded the game to hell and played that to death :P there just isnt much left in the space game arena to play.
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