Story-wise, what kind of games do you prefer?

[CubOfJudahsLion]

Authors, developers and other gaming 'luminaries' really don't seem to agree on this particular point, but this is probably because digital gaming appeals to a wide demographic range (and growing, if the increasing number of sites dedicated to women in gaming is a reliable indicator and not a colossal marketing plot--in that sense, I stil think the Frag Dolls are gamer bait and non-representative.)

Well, I think that it would be interesting to know what our particular demographic (young males with reading habits, educated and with tech skills more often than not, and a definite liking for well thought-out sci-fi) prefers.

Do you want a side of Campbellian journey with that?

[chuck_starchaser]

To me the best game is like a sci-fi novel with an intricate plot, that you not only read, but actually play through. Choice of roles to play is good, and so is non-linearity; but these are minor pluses for me, I think they've been overblown out of all proportion. I love reading novels, and it doesn't matter that the plot is linear and the outcome predetermined. But the plot should be interesting, full of twists and depth.

[Nózmájner]

I like plots as long as they are interesting, but I'm a bit bored with those kind of stories where you have to save the world from an evil genius/The Evil/evil aliens/evil companies, and such things. And usually you didn't know much about them, so story writers don't have to justify their actions, like 'Hey! They are the mysterious evil enemy! Nobody knows why they attacked us. Let's kill them!'
Like in most of popular scifi/fantasy stories. For example in Star Wars, there were evil dark jedies (don't tell me, the only way to use the force is to become a Jedi, or a renegade Jedi. I mean, the universe is big, so most likely the usage of the force should developed in very different ways at different places.). In Terminator, there were evil robots and so on.

A 'good' example is StarGate. There is the evil Goa'uld with some hellova good technology (even if it's stolen), who ruled the galaxy (the Galaxy, with billions of star systems, even thousands if we count habitable systems very pessimistic) for at least 3000 years. OK, they aren't that lot in numbers, but come on! All of them used exactly the same technology, even if they were enemies. Like you could just walk in to Ikea and buy some advanced weaponry.
And on the other side, we, humans come and kick their ass in no time. You must be joking! It's like if the yeties would came down from the mountains, and kicked the USSR's ass in a week.
But don't misunderstood me, I like StarGate, it has some very good episodes.

I mean, how about some more interresting political situations? A bit of complexity, or something. (Not like in Dune, where were some mayor houses who hated each other - note that there were an evil house too! , and a tiny little planet monopolizing the most important thing in the galaxy)
Remember Fallout? Both of them. They had some good piece of plot. Of course you had to save your people, but there were some interresting relations between settlements and such.
I-war 2 has some good moments too, but when those aliens came into view, they ruined the whole thing.

Of course, it is possible to write a good plot whit evil enemies too, but it is very easy to ruin the whole thing. Like the Impostor of Phillip K. Dick (hope this is the original title. You know which one I'm talking about: the one were some scientist guy was replaced with a repro, adn he wasn't aware of this, and then he succeded his mission). There were evil aliens. Check. They were misterious (at least for the reader). Check. There were a war between two race (which is another very stupid thing). Check. It has everything for a cliché based storyline, but it viewed the whole thing from a very interresting way, so it became a good story. So the war between species, or war between evil enemy like plots could also be good, but nowdays it is very hard to create a good piece with these things, because they've became clichés.
My conclusion is that a good plot is not builded up from clichés.
The best evil enemy plot I've ever seen is in 'The Day of the Tentacle'. BTW

Oh, I'm not realy talking about plot types of games. Sorry. My opinion is that there could be good game whit different type of plots. Not that's the thing that's depends the value of a game. I mean, you can tell a good story in a bad way, but also, if you are good in such things, you can tell the worst tale as a very good one. Like politicians and religious leaders do all the time

Any Final Fantasy has a hellova linear storyline, but theye are very good game this way, c because the story usually kicked ass. Some kind of adventure game with RPG elements.

Elite games had no storyline at all, or just a very loose one where you didn't had to proceed whit the plot, but they were very good games.

Soul Reaver games had a linear storyline, but the whole game had a very good atmosphere. The same stands for the Silent Hill games.

My conclusion is that not the mechanical way of storytelling is the most important aspect of this, but the ability of the storyteller to have the audiance empathize with the story.

[klauss]

Nózmájner: Did you read Dune the books?

Those are much deeper than what you described. The games/movies don't do them justice.

That is the plot I like.
Twisted.
Deep.
Complex.
Spanning thousands of years is a nice touch.

Alinearity... is a boon... a very welcome one, but a story can be linear and good at the same time.

[chuck_starchaser]

I agree that good vs. evil is overused and often lacks depth. One thing about the game Starcraft was that you played all 3 sides and got to see things from each of their perspectives.
One of my favorite authors is Robert Anton Wilson. He's a master at that. In his novels, often for the first quarter of the book you really get to know one 'faction' if I may borrow the term from VS, very well, very deeply; and their enemy is demonized far more deeply than most good-versus-evil stories could even hope for. Then you get to a chapter where you start to see the rival's point of view and your whole model is completely overturned, without even changing any of the facts. Just pure philosophy. And often in his books there are several 'factions' or philosophies represented.

[G3David]

I could've sworn I said it was in the scenery.... what's taking so long with my sniper rifle!

[Nózmájner]

Klauss: no I didn't read it, my apologies. I saw the films (both versions).
Anyway, the most important aspect is the Planet Dune and it's Spice, which is the very foundation of the interstellar travel, so the consistency of the whole Empire, right? I don't know, but it's an obvious and very polarized analog of the recent (not the last few years, but generally) oil problems, oil wars, but in Dune, as far as I know, there isn't a single party trying to break the monopoly of those navigators in interstellar travel. But if I'm wrong, correct me.

[klauss]

You're wrong.
The benne gesserit has been trying to do that for centuries.
And almost every other big organisation.

Thing is, that sandworms won't survive in other planets, and they're the ones producing the spice (baby worms). So spice can't be cultivated in other planets. Well... that's how things start, anyway... I wouldn't want to spoil it (if you ever try to read them).

EDIT: Sorry, I thought you meant the monopoly of spice. About navigators, thing is that it can't be done. You need the navigators, but in the end special ships are manufactured that can protect you from the navigator's senses, which very much goes along the line of opposing them. But for interstellar travel, you need navigators... and navigators don't just have such an influence because they're needed, but also because the spice enhances their senses in such a way that they become almost omniscient - thus it's very difficult to plot against them. Besides, the movies focus on the beginning of the saga. Much happens later in the saga. So they make the mistake of telling an incomplete story... without realizing. I mean, you can tell an incomplete story, but you have to know it so that you can address this incompleteness. The old movie I didn't see... but the new and hallmark's miniseries is a terrible compression of like 3 books into one movie. That's too much, you can't understand what happens. If I hadn't read the books, I wouldn't have understood anything.

[Nózmájner]

I see. Well, it's starting to be interresting.

Anyway, my basic point is (without example) is that in every space game I saw, there was only one method of interstellar travel. Like if we could travel from A to B only by car, trains, planes, ships and our foot and such doesn't even exist. Is that has to be like this?
I mean, there could be multiple ways to do that, heavilly different ways. All of them could have some advantages, and disadvantages too. For example (without any science background, just gameplay POV) wormholes could take you to your destination in a moderate time, but only on a fix path, so you will arrive to the same place every time, and you don't need to do any navigation during the travel. And then there could be some, let's say, advanced wormholes with multiple paths, whit shorter and longer paths. And in oposition of these, there could be some kind of "hyperspace", like in Star Control 2, where you have to navigate, and there could be dangeorus things there, but if you do a proper navigation, you could be at your destination half time as with a wormhole.

[Halleck]

I'm somewhat on the fence about this. My preference ranges between rich, pre-defined stories (Such as Myst/Journeyman Project type adventure games and Legacy of Kain series) and user-defined stories (The Sims/SimCity/probably Spore, GTA, Vegastrike). There are also games where you feel that you are in total control, but the story follows a set of basic plot points (Knights of the Old Republic, Star Control 2).

I enjoy all of the above types of games- I think it all depends on how well the game was designed, and how well written the plot was for predetermined games. Games with user-defined stories have unbeatable replay value (if they even have an ending), but they sometimes lack the "cinematic" feel of games with grand plots.

My favorite category of game is probably the one that straddles the middle- games like Star Control 2 and Knights of the Old Republic, where you act in a predefined story, but can influence the outcome of events heavily by your actions. These games can combine the epic feel of pre-written games with the fun of going about things your own way and being able to truly impact what happens in the game world.

[micheal_andreas_stahl]

to much diologe for me