New Chris Roberts game in the works??

Let the flames roll in...
Err... yeah, well I suppose you can talk about other stuff as well, maybe?

Moderator: Halleck

IansterGuy
Bounty Hunter
Bounty Hunter
Posts: 174
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:49 am

Re: New Chris Roberts game in the works??

Post by IansterGuy »

klauss wrote:Saw trailer. Good looks. It doesn't show much about game play though - I imagine there's no "game" yet. Just an engine that lets you walk and fly around.
klauss wrote:I'm just lurking... checking out the competition ;)
Ha ha, that's kinda what I was thinking. I'll tell you what Open Source Vega Strike has that squadron 42 or any proprietary game will avoid because of the pure profit driven business model. Proprietary developers will not make a game without planned obsolescence in its life cycle, unless there are other methods of making money though it. Even then without open source there would be no minimum set to be competitive in the open content creation tools market.

Looking at both videos I love the ideas and will likely recommend Squadron 42 as a fun space shooter, but as things appear now it will not be much a simulator. It looks like Newtonian physics may be ignored just like most other commercial games. I was impressed with the 'Fly By Wire' dynamic thruster control, and especially impressed with user created and own able content. The demo visuals suggested that inertia will be ignored, and I suspect that ships may even have sublight speed limits. So it may not be a simulator in the purest sense, not even when compared to VegaStrike.

There may be room for them to alter their plans since it is a crowd funded project by the fans, but the only hint of inertia was when it was said that the engines can be turned off to float freely in space like freelancer. This would suggest that there must be some kind of flight stabilizer device holding the ship onto some invisible rails so that the large engines forward motion is redirected. This notion is okay with me, as long as it can be turned off and controlled at will.

What would be a shame though would be to have so much visual realism but then ignore a fundamental part of physical realism. All rockets can move faster than their maximum exhaust speed so a speed limit is almost impossible to have a cannon explanation for. Immersion is great, but I think immersion plus authenticity would be much more interesting.
pheonixstorm
Elite
Elite
Posts: 1567
Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2010 2:03 am

Re: New Chris Roberts game in the works??

Post by pheonixstorm »

The idea of total realism has come up here before.. and it is a dead idea for the most part. While yes you want SOME realism, having everything be 100% realistic just isn't fun. Even in this project you have to keep a balance of what the players want (and most players only want *some*realism). Too much and the crowd leaves, too little and the crowd leaves.. either way it is the fan base that keeps any project alive. No fans = no new developers = why bother.
Because of YOU Arbiter, MY kids? can't get enough gas. OR NIPPLE! How does that mkae you feeeel? ~ Halo
travists
Expert Mercenary
Expert Mercenary
Posts: 893
Joined: Thu Jul 08, 2010 11:43 pm
Location: Sol III North American Continent

Re: New Chris Roberts game in the works??

Post by travists »

IansterGuy wrote:Proprietary developers will not make a game without planned obsolescence in its life cycle, unless there are other methods of making money though it. It looks like Newtonian physics may be ignored just like most other commercial games.
As to the first, they have no publisher to make happy, and have a "cash shop" to keep the money flowing. As to the second, Newtonian physics are to be implemented to the degree possible while still having enjoyable game play. As such, speeds are artificial limited but thrusters are used to turn, start,stop and their destruction will alter your performance. you can also turn off the "air craft like control computer".
IansterGuy
Bounty Hunter
Bounty Hunter
Posts: 174
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:49 am

Re: New Chris Roberts game in the works??

Post by IansterGuy »

pheonixstorm wrote:While yes you want SOME realism, having everything be 100% realistic just isn't fun. Even in this project you have to keep a balance of what the players want (and most players only want *some*realism). Too much and the crowd leaves, too little and the crowd leaves..
This bit made me laugh because it sounds so depressing, everything makes the crowd leave XD. I agree that 100% realism should not mean “Set the ship on autopilot and come back in 8 minutes to arrive” but rather creative solutions to sneak it. I would like to clear away the notion that more realism, mean less action, this only applies for certain ways solving game play pacing problems. Rather I see it as a challenge to create as much overlap of realism and game play pacing as possible.

I would rather solve the specific gameplay element rather than just do the obvious. If ships are normally moving too fast to have a fun close quarters dogfight instead of a joust the problem is not that the ships are too fast, but they are normally to fast through the entire encounter. There is no problem with moving fast out of combat and less of a problem during combat if ships are slowed down shortly after the fight starts. I can think of many 'hocus pocus' technology based explanations for the slowing of a ship relative to another. History shows technology can be beyond our imagination, so better that than break a fundamental law a motion.

For example ships under attack by ships on a flyby could emit a field that makes space more soupy for any object moving a different velocity relative to the field. The faster the object the more the field uses it's relative kinetic energy against it. This would defend against jousting, speedy escapes, and unfair kinetic weapons like rocket propelled metal telephone poles. This would also explain why plasma bolts are so slow, why long range weapons other than deflectable lasers are limited, and why computer targeting is so imeffective compared to a human pilot who can feel and predict a targets moves.
travists wrote:Newtonian physics are to be implemented to the degree possible while still having enjoyable game play. As such, speeds are artificial limited but thrusters are used to turn, start, stop and their destruction will alter your performance. you can also turn off the "air craft like control computer".
Again I don't feel more newtonian physics necessarily means less enjoyable game play, because the core game play could be made to feel similar. Done right it would mean more of both because it would add more strategy without losing the fundamentals of a space shooter.

I like the dynamic thrusters a lot, though the ship in the demo did not have to reverse thrust at all to turn around 180 degrees. The game is not finished but if they don't go in that direction it leaves much room for VegaStrike to stand alone as an authentic action space simulator.

I actually like the idea of a ship partially on rails so to make extensive use of the larger rear engines in partially banking turns. I would just like explanations for the behavior using in game devices. One could call it a “Forward Rectifier” and have it as a purchasable upgrade for the current maneuver mode. This is similar to the kind of setup I had actually been suggesting for VegaStirke before the forum data loss. The only other way I see to have tight turning in nutonian physics is to have strong lateral thrusters, belly thrusters in particular. For VegaStrike I suggest both. Of course the mods will always have their own physics rules.

VegaStrike can't compete graphic wise with commercial games, so the appeal is the unique gameplay. Game pacing has indeed suffered some due to semi-nutonian physics; but I think this can be remedied with technology elements that enhance pacing in ways that are regardless how far the physical realism is pushed. With a history of games made much the same behind us, adding more fun authentic one of a kind gameplay, would continue to set VegaStrike apart from the rest, even Chris Robert's awesome new game.
pheonixstorm
Elite
Elite
Posts: 1567
Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2010 2:03 am

Re: New Chris Roberts game in the works??

Post by pheonixstorm »

Because of YOU Arbiter, MY kids? can't get enough gas. OR NIPPLE! How does that mkae you feeeel? ~ Halo
Post Reply