Vega Strike Main Plot

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Oblivion
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Vega Strike Main Plot

Post by Oblivion »

I've always been bothered by the lack of a plot in the main VS game aside from the Hauler mission and the random ones. So, as usual, I'm suggesting a main plot.

However, this plot will not be the sole source of missions. I am not suggesting that we scrap the random ones. This will just be to make the player actually participate in a Vega Strike history in the making. In fact, as soon as mission scripting is easier, I think everyone should be encouraged to create mission contributions, in which they make their own sidequests and add them to the game. This would make VS more interesting though still open-ended, as HellcatV wished it to be.
____________________________________________________________________
And for the umpteenth time, I'm again knocking on the developers' doors, and hoping that they do have plans for a main plot. I understand that none have been coded yet because:

1. Mission scripting in python is hard to grasp for non-python users.
2. Those who do know python have much more important tasks at hand in improving the physics engine.
3. The background fiction is still work in progress (as I contribute there, and I'm hoping we could finish it soon. ;))
_____________________________________________________________________
And suggestions to make mission scripting easier:
I. No random spawning of planets. There should be a MAP that pinpoints exact locations of the planets, systems, stations, etc.

II. Make each station and planet base unique (not in the models, though adding logos to the textures would make them much more nicer). Unique in a sense that they have their own background history each, that the player can access when docked. Even if just as long as a paragraph. As this just requires creativity and full knowledge of VS fiction, history, and starmaps, it wouldn't be hard to do (though I don't know how many landable planets/bases there are, and there could be hundreds. ;)). They would also take their interior base backgrounds (or models if the 3d walkabout base gets implemented :)) from a list of generic backgrounds; but coded in such a way as to make it easier to replace them with custom backgrounds/layouts as soon as each is made :) Needless to say, the goods sold, the fixers present, and the services offered would vary from base to base as to reflect their background.

For example: The Serenity Base (controlled by the Klk'k(?not sure if it varies))- it will still have the exterior mining base model that the Klk'ks use; But inside, almost all the fixers would be Klk'k or Andolian (their allies), with NO enemy factions present. And, the base background image/3d interior model woulkd have to be unmistakable Klk'k and Andolian in design. An option would be there (or available in conversations with non-mission offering random fixers) for the player to learn about the history of the Serenity base.
e.g."built by bla bla in bla bla and owned by bla bla. We offer bla bla cargo. The workers here often complain of the lack of bla bla. etc."
And cargo offered will be limited. AND no ships will be sold or purchased. It's supposed to be a MINING base. :)
__________________________________________________________________
For the plot: Here is a suggestions ;) Not intended to be history but intended to be something the player can actually participate in.

VEGA STRIKE: Dark Light (Not suggesting changing subtitle, though I don't really like Upon the coldest sea. hehe. Just probably the mission title. AND this is not meant for a mod. :? ).

Basically the attempt at vengeance by survivors of the Andolian-Lightbearer war.
Plot history: Several Lightbearer ships have escaped Andolian capture during the last war. Retreating to a remote planet deep in Forsaken Territory, they regroup and plan to take revenge someday. In their new settled system, they come upon ruins left by the Ancients. hundreds(?) of years passed, and they grew and prospered. Their society now has become much more militaristic. Everything done to prepare for a war with the Andolians and their former slave races. Building massive fleets, probably (?) allying themselves with the Aerans. (Of course some lightbearers probably chose to leave the new society to settle in with the outlying forsaken populations, to forget everything about being a Lightbearer). And all the while Lightbearer researchers strove to uncover the secrets of the Ancient ruins they had discovered.

Player Starts: The player would start out as a Forsaken. Since they are the faction most similar to the player (i.e. No clue about the VS universe). And they are neutral, culturally varied with a slight distrust of the Confeds. They cannot change races... well, probably in multiplayer :). But they can choose their crews, if that happens. AND.... They'll do basic missions and etc. if they choose. The main plot can wait (and indeed, the span between random missions/sidequests and missions of the main plot should be large, since they would be impossible without good weapons or proper skill level (if skills get implemented).

Happenings Play-Time: The Lightbearers discover a terrible weapon left by the ancients, and after research, they integrate it to one of their capital ships. This weapon fires a blackish ray (physicists, please supply a properly malevolent energy form, as I'm ignorant on that part :)) hence the name Dark Light.
And start wreaking havoc!
Further developments withheld to hieghten suspense (and because I haven't thought deeply into it yet. I want it to be absolutely convoluted, Twists-And-Turns-wise. ;), suggestions...?)

And that ends my tirade!

:roll:
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Post by Kangaroo »

A suggestion for the VS 0.5.x - (i know that it won't be easy, i'll do my best to ease your job) maye each faction has a small plot, and the player can swith between factions in time.
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Re: Vega Strike Main Plot

Post by Sunfire »

Oblivion wrote:
*snip*
(though I don't know how many landable planets/bases there are, and there could be hundreds. ;)).
*snippitty snip snip*
according to vsnav, there are currently 2435 SYSTEMS that can be accessed by jump lanes and 5702 (!) :shock: in all

i cant begin to imagine how many landable planets/bases there are but even if every system you can get to only has 3... thats still like 7000 ( :shock: :shock: ) bases... i dont even have the emoticon to express how much that boggles my mind....
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Post by Sunfire »

and i shudder to think what would happen if jackS got his hands on the data plots for the ASCC (which is roughtly 2,501,968 stars... roughly) that can be used with the astronomical program celestia....
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Post by Oblivion »

thats still like 7000
:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

Oh well.... that IS a big problem in scripting missions. How about a generic description for each planet type, and special descriptions for homeworlds and mission-critical locations?

But please remove random spawning.... Puh leeeeeez... :cry:
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Re: Vega Strike Main Plot

Post by dandandaman »

Oblivion wrote: And for the umpteenth time, I'm again knocking on the developers' doors, and hoping that they do have plans for a main plot. I understand that none have been coded yet because:

1. Mission scripting in python is hard to grasp for non-python users.
2. Those who do know python have much more important tasks at hand in improving the physics engine.
3. The background fiction is still work in progress (as I contribute there, and I'm hoping we could finish it soon. ;))
_____________________________________________________________________
Exactly right! There is already the outlines of a plot pretty much cemented, but as with everything else it's time issues which have kept it at bay. :-(

I. No random spawning of planets. There should be a MAP that pinpoints exact locations of the planets, systems, stations, etc.

Well, when a system is needed for a mission the person making the mission can simply get their generated system committed to subversion... (like Bernerd's Star) so it's not too much of an issue.

II. Make each station and planet base unique (not in the models, though adding logos to the textures would make them much more nicer). Unique in a sense that they have their own background history each

This has been dealt with above this post ;-)

And wrt to the plot ... tis not my area to comment :-)

Dan
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Post by Oblivion »

2435 SYSTEMS
Well, when a system is needed for a mission the person making the mission can simply get their generated system committed to subversion... (like Bernerd's Star) so it's not too much of an issue.
..but it would still make star maps impossible. :roll: 2435 systems is overkill! And randomly spawned. You can't seriously expect a player to go through all those systems in his gaming lifetime! Plus the developers to develop thos in their developing lifetimes.. lol

*Groan* :cry: Fewer systems that are well-developed backgrounds would have been sufficient for an open-ended RPG-Space Shooter.

The first example that comes to my mind: One of my favorites, The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind, Tribunal, and Bloodmoon. Those were open-ended. But the maps are not that unreasonably huge. And every part of the map was painstakingly developed with sidequests, etc. etc.
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Post by Sunfire »

i wonder if _anyone_ has been to all the systems yet....
if not, whoever does should get a prize :)

it IS trading and bounty hunting in a VAST universe after all ;)

its probably just me, but i like the fact that the universe is that huge... i get so tired of running into 'walls' in supposedly open ended games and it leaves alot of room to develop systems in anyones side missions... (a scripted home system for every faction perhaps? that with faction sub plots would be very nice 8) )
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Post by Oblivion »

running into 'walls'
Morrowind was truly open-ended. Check out the new TES4: Oblivion. Have no plan in buying a copy tho.

A VAST Universe is Okay, if they were at least static. No shifting around in each players copy of the game. Randomize the unexplored unscripted systems and make sure they are immediately recognizable to the player. i.e. No bases on the planets no stations. Nada :wink:
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Re: Vega Strike Main Plot

Post by klauss »

Oblivion wrote:I. No random spawning of planets. There should be a MAP that pinpoints exact locations of the planets, systems, stations, etc.
I happen to agree...
...static systems, though it might seem otherwise at first, are actually much more interesting than random ones - static systems have something, namely their staticity, which makes them memorable. With random systems, it's not so. So the 2000 systems aren't actually there, in the player's mind - just name a VS player who actually remembers any system other than Cephid/17, Sol, and the one they're currently in.

However... enhancing the quality of the random system generator would help in laying out the foundation for scriptable systems, as Dan pointed out - just commit a version of the generated system that you liked, and start tweaking as needed - much easier than starting from scratch all systems. But that needs a better generator.

Wow... I've been wanting to enhance the generator for sooo long... impressive, how that seems to be postponed over and over...
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Post by jackS »

The general quantity of systems in the jump network is not currently slated to change. The quality of specific systems and the variance between them has long been scheduled for an overhaul. Big is less a problem than bland, repetitive, and uninspiring - but not every system needs to immediately memorable, nor, perhaps should every system be memorable.


What has been on the books for some time is a plan to
A1) Retool the system generator to produce a more immediately useful basis for iterative improvement, and for generating "unexplored" space. By iterative improvement, I mean that it should be able to make use of information supplied alongside custom systems to, for example, make meaninful changes to the systems surrounding a "metropolis" system that has been added as a full-custom system.
A2) Develop toolchain for manipulating and evaluating the results of A1.
B) Hand tune portions of the jump network needing attention
C) Hand craft a few dozen systems of "core" importance (Homeworlds, politically or economically core worlds, etc.)
D) Hand sprinkle in unique/rare/semi-rare content among select (well-suited) generated systems (many)

So, to use tenuous California analogies -> San Francisco (hand crafted, all the landmarks that the tours go through are there), Berkeley(hand sprinkled with unique content, but no one will notice if everything except the university is generic), Stockton (You may well have a reason to take your cargo there, but you can't expect anything too exciting), Goldrun (well, I guess people live there), and Death Valley (there are some people there, but can you call it "Living?"). With a few SFs, a bunch of Berkeley-types, a goodly number of Stocktons and some Goldruns, with enough Death Valley types (especially those that don't seem to have previously been Death Valley types) to make one wonder why the Ancients built a connection to that system.
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Post by Ryder P. Moses »

Something along these lines is pretty much precisely what VS needs to become an interesting game. Either a small, in-depth universe, or a highly sophisticated random generator and an adaptable mission set able to make it feel more or less like a handcrafted one would. Thing is, nobody actually writes missions. Just like nobody's outputting so much content that some of it can be reserved for only one system, nobody's helping me make the procedurally-generated systems more interesting (and I'm giving that barely any time myself, now), and nobody's making "interesting", "deep" planets or systems. Were I actually seeing anything, anything at all happening on this, I'd be quite willing to accord more time to help make it a reality. But right now I've seen a hell of a lot of talk and pretty much no action, and as I'm not much interested in wasting a lot of time building the small portion of the necessary stuff I could do on my own and leaving the rest incomplete never to be implemented, hell with it.
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Post by klauss »

You are indeed aware that talking takes much less time than doing... right?
The reason nothing has been done, yet, is that we can talk quite into the future, creating expectations, but implementing that takes a long time (mostly when RL hinders advancement).

Anyway... random, full-blown planetary layouts (as in virtual cities) are eventually coming... I'm setting up things for that, so that I may have fun with readily applicable stuff (up till now, everything has been rather frustrating in that nothing Ogre-related can yet be applied to the engine itself - I know it will eventually be, and the system explorer is rather pretty, but... well... it's different).
Wish me luck ;)
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Post by Oblivion »

Bestest of luck! :D

Random layouts? That's for the generic planets right? Why oh why is randomness necessary for open-endedness? And the problem would be... won't planet sections clash? Example you land in a desert landing pad. exit to an agricultural concourse, and talk to a pirate in a pirate bar. :(


1. Picture these scenarios that could happen if a static universe is implemented:
Discovery of unexplored planets will either a:give nothing b:give you special cargo c.give you special tech?? d.will introduce you to new species e.rack up points with explore missions f. dicover a whole new civ that you can always come back to later for trading, repair, upgrades, and/or missions(with random spawning, i would think theyd dissappear even if you follow your tracks exactly)

HOWEVER: Random spawning would help in the above for border worlds. BUT is there a way to save the locations of explored planets, and their data so you could go back there?

2.Make development of history easier. As we can now see boundaries, exactly where does Aera lie? What about pirate systems, etc.

3.Add character to systems, planets etc that are believable. Example, coming across a chinese forsaken system. With oriental base backgrounds, names, etc.

It wouldn't do if you come across planets that are totally highly commercialized in one planet and then an empty one on the other end of the system. Though both are attarctive to colonists.

4.Lessen the chances (which I take to be 100%) of being lost in the VS universe. Aimless. Clueless. Getting shot at. And it's NOT enjoyable at all.

5.
C) Hand craft a few dozen systems of "core" importance (Homeworlds, politically or economically core worlds, etc.)
D) Hand sprinkle in unique/rare/semi-rare content among select (well-suited) generated systems (many)
The problem is: They will still be randomly generated. So you will come across a peaceful andolian system and then jump and suddenly you're in the middle of a full-blown Fleet skirmish in an Rlaan controlled one.
And (I'm not sure) you could get like the Rlaan homeworld and the Aeran homeworld lying next to each other. :(

6.
iterative improvement
I'm thinking that Random spawning should be just for unexplored spaces. Not also for non-custom ones. :(

7.
But right now I've seen a hell of a lot of talk and pretty much no action
I'm willing to make custom art/history for certain worlds. But I want to make sure that their positions would not be subject to blowing away with the wind.


I've got an idea on semi-random Systems. Though the 2000+ systems still makes no sense to me. I'll post it here later. It's getting late. ;)[/quote]
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Post by jackS »

@Oblivion -
be careful not to confuse random and procedural, even when the procedure in question relies upon some random seeds. There are, for instance, quite reasonably defined borders and a static jump network in the current data set (it's the internals of the systems that are underspecified).
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Post by Oblivion »

:D Sorry for that. Didn't understand your post the first time I read it. I skipped the California analogy. Makes sense to me. :) Ok, i'll shut up now. :wink:

one more thing: Once generated, a systems position becomes permanent right? i.e. you can go back to one planet in particular if you want to?

Ok, I'll shut up now. :? ...ZIIIP
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Post by Halleck »

Yes, this is stored in your game data folder (.vegastrike\sectors\ I believe)

Although planets may be aligned differently due to time lapses, they will still be on the same orbits.
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Post by Oblivion »

Okay! That's all I needed to know. Can we somehow delete this thread? :wink: It's kinda illuminating a sensitive WIP portion of VS.
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Post by Halleck »

Oblivion wrote:Can we somehow delete this thread? :wink: It's kinda illuminating a sensitive WIP portion of VS.
What's so bad about that?
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Post by Oblivion »

:roll: Well, It could scare off noobs. :wink:
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Post by Kangaroo »

An idea: how about a creating a program that allows everyone to create plots for VS; I know it's not easy, but it would save a lot of time for next releases :?:

i know i'm stupid :roll:
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Post by loki1950 »

Kanga i think that plot creator is on someones to do list already :wink:

Enjoy the Choice :)
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Post by Kangaroo »

ok, my bad :|
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Post by klauss »

Wow... 7-tuple post... that must be a record.
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Post by Kangaroo »

what?
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