New keybinding proposal ESDF baised, left hand on home row.

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IansterGuy
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Re: New keybinding proposal ESDF baised, left hand on home r

Post by IansterGuy »

Well that is interesting. It could be quite a few different issues. Of course when I look at it everything seems clear and distinct because I already know the relation of everything. Though I know I have incorporated quite a few little things that may not be intuitive.

If the problem is the general layout then the solution would to be to stop thinking and unceremoniously put the labels into an ordered listing. If it is the spacing, visible borders may help. If the modifier keys are not identifiable, perhaps a descriptive label or line to it's subordinates. If not distinct enough, maybe simply better arrangement. If not clear, better labels

Where Key binding maps are used in console games, normally they show the controller with white lines leading to labels and and much blank space. Most computer games don't have a key binding map at all, but rather a key binding configurations screen. Computer gamers are used to seeing keys in a customizable list with modifier keys and distinct controllers in dedicated rows on long scrollable columns and sometimes greater categories separated by tabs.

Console gamers are used to a single visual representation of the standard controller with labels. Sometimes a selection of a few different preset configurations are available, and sometimes they also have that same configuration list computer games have, especially if they are cross platform games.

I suppose the big question is, weather to enhance this layout that mimics the real keyboard positioning while adapting groupings to fit. Or abandon communicating group positioning in favor of rigidly grouped classic categories by function alone.

New players don't even know what functions exist in the game till they discover the controls. At this point I cant imagine what would be easier to learn from scratch.
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Re: New keybinding proposal ESDF baised, left hand on home r

Post by IansterGuy »

It has been a long while and I have not finished this work it seems. I think the reason is that I feel like I have already finished because I have near accomplished what I expected to.

The things left to do to accomplish what I had planned, are: Normalize some of my weird wording; Adjust the spacing and create borders, to better show separation of groups; Draw connecting lines between the buttons, and the words; and create a patch file. If someone would like to complete this work before I get around to it, I would not be offended. If I do work on the file, the file in my Drop Box link will change.

I'll admit I'm a little bit confused on what people want the final product to look like. So my best plan is still my original, to dynamically position to both represent function groupings and keyboard positioning.
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Re: New keybinding proposal ESDF baised, left hand on home r

Post by IansterGuy »

I have done more work on the Keymap image, and I have grouped functions with color coded shading. This should fix the readability issue. I also fixed some odd wording and spacing
quit-Improved_borders-Key_layer_separated-Words_Duller.png
The issues that I know about are: redundant keys; inconsistencies in the relative placement of labels; Odd group shapes extending in to the natural space of other groups; Odd colors; Style inconsistent with game theme; and Ugly. Comments? Suggestions? Tips?
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IansterGuy
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Re: New keybinding proposal ESDF baised, left hand on home r

Post by IansterGuy »

So along my internet travels I have been running into information about graphics and was inspired to tackle this texture compression task so to get this file useable in-game.

Even though I know that limiting factor in quality is my images of the Keys and the text I want to run through this first. Someone will have to replace the source images of the keys and insert higher quality text for a good copy. I assuming the key images have a master copy somewhere to use.

I hope I did the compression part right in particular, becuase the rest is wrong. This is what I did so far for this first version.

-Converted the .image with XNviewer to PNG (I know I should have used Tiff, so already a mistake)
-Separated out the background and edited with Gimp the corners so it looks right.
-Copied the .JPG images of the Keys from the Wiki ( I know another mistake but they where so quick and easy to use for a first run)
-With Gimp added low quality text shaded layers and lines to organize the info by both keyboard location and function.
-Exported to .tiff, No compression
-Successfully used AMD's Compressonator to convert my .tiff to .DDS DX3 at normal (highest quality) using ATI 3dc Compression.
-Used NotePad++ to rename my my extension to .image

Note by no means do I expect this to be committed because it is lower quality than the original. it's just the best I can do with the time I have for entertainment at the moment.

Here are the two files that need to be changed to use this setup in game. Other than these changes the only inconsistency with the in game tutorial is the Docking controls which are moved to "Alt+D"

#1 quit.image This is placed in: "...\Vega Strike\sprites" to replace "quit.image"

#2 This is the tricky one because it requires editing the vegastrike.config file in the main "...\Vega Strike\" folder, which the game edits when you play the game. It also has been heavily edited depending on what version of the game you are using. So, I will not provide a file but rather provide the the code and instructions again for how replace the code.

Remember to backup any files you plan to change first, in case something goes wrong. Renaming the file and appending "(Orriginal)" to the name works fine. Open vegastrike.config in your favorite text editor find the heading "<bindings>" without quotes. Highlight the section all the way through to and including the line "<bind key="esc" modifier="none" command="Cockpit::Quit"/>" without the outer quotes, then paste in the new code. The code is highlighted in green in this previous post which I have been keeping updated. Save the file and you are done.

I have also noticed that my other previews of the layout can't effectively show the alpha channel with the default black background, so here is another of the same one with a white background.
quit-ESDF_Based_Controls-White_background.png
as you can see, there is a fairly dark shading to highlight modifier groups. Since the shading is not always visible in game and clashes with existing black shading of the menus I was thinking of doing something a bit different. Maybe it could be designed to match the game theme and use light purple and shades of grey like the main menu. Maybe that is improvement for the good copy made by someone with more artistic skill than me.

I hope this new control scheme will be useful. I encourage people to reference this post to those who complain about the current controls. Maybe they can help with some constructive criticism.
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ezee
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Re: New keybinding proposal ESDF baised, left hand on home r

Post by ezee »

vERY NICE jOB !

You could be a good cockpit designer , i see your stuff like panels in a 3d cockpit .
I would like to develop cockpits also , perhaps like MSFLIGHT simulator .
Your have grouped the functions , like for a real flight panel .

Battery on/off , landing lights , SPEC light , taxi etc ... ?
:wink:
woaw , that give me ideas ...
thank you !

Code: Select all

 if (!track.HasWeapons())
            {
                // So what are you going to threaten me with? Exhaustion gas?
                return ThreatLevel::None;
            }
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Re: New keybinding proposal ESDF baised, left hand on home r

Post by klauss »

I still don't like the layout of that image. It's way too crowded, and that's probably the lack of structure. As in, you don't have clearly separated areas. You have them labeled, but not quickly findable.

You probably can't cram all that info into a single png. Maybe you need two, to make the layout more readable?
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Re: New keybinding proposal ESDF baised, left hand on home r

Post by Deus Siddis »

klauss wrote:You probably can't cram all that info into a single png. Maybe you need two, to make the layout more readable?
I think you just struck a core issue with the control scheme here. Far too many controls.

I go back to 0.4.3 and still I have not memorized half those keys. This must be one of the biggest turn-offs to new players.
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Re: New keybinding proposal ESDF baised, left hand on home r

Post by klauss »

That's why I was thinking of tackling RTT and then use that to tackle more flexible clickable interfaces. That would save the need for many keys. But still, I believe the PNG itself can be improved a lot by carefully organizing things better. Less information density and more structure I'd say, and if you can't cram it all, drop something.
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Re: New keybinding proposal ESDF baised, left hand on home r

Post by ezee »

Hi .

I agree that the layout is not perfect , but i like the idea of grouping the keys by category.
The RTT ( render to texture ) proposed by Klauss could be fantastic and a first step to a
new generation of cockpits .

Exemple in flight sim :
Image

This problem of layout will be the problem of every cockpit builder i guess .
So find a methodology in this thread could be very useful for the future .

We could use pros and cons to help to find out what to keep .

for exemple :

Pros :
-Grouping in Panel defined by logic
_Colors by theme

Cons :

_ Placement of sub Panels could be improved
_ Text too small ( a solution for a real game panel would be a tooltip on mouse over ? )

Code: Select all

 if (!track.HasWeapons())
            {
                // So what are you going to threaten me with? Exhaustion gas?
                return ThreatLevel::None;
            }
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IansterGuy
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Re: New keybinding proposal ESDF baised, left hand on home r

Post by IansterGuy »

klauss wrote:I still don't like the layout of that image. It's way too crowded, and that's probably the lack of structure. As in, you don't have clearly separated areas. You have them labeled, but not quickly findable. [...] I believe the PNG itself can be improved a lot by carefully organizing things better. Less information density and more structure I'd say, and if you can't cram it all, drop something.
ezee wrote:Hi .

I agree that the layout is not perfect , but i like the idea of grouping the keys by category.
[...]
Pros :
-Grouping in Panel defined by logic
_Colors by theme

Cons :
_ Placement of sub Panels could be improved
_ Text too small ( a solution for a real game panel would be a tooltip on mouse over ? )
I'm thinking now that the I like the clusters that I have made but I don't like the mimicking of the keyboard positioning. The labbles are indeed not quickly findable which I consider important. What I think should be done is group the clusters by the currently colored categories. Then to put all the Main labels in a column alongside their clusters. This way the cluster could be ordered logically and can still be looked up in reverse by sight anyway. This finding what your looking for would be a matter of looking down a list of headings. The sub labels would still be distributed around the clusters but in a more clean and predictable way.
Deus Siddis wrote:I go back to 0.4.3 and still I have not memorized half those keys. This must be one of the biggest turn-offs to new players.
It is easy to find out what new players are thinking. They tend to leave comments on the sites where they first looked into the game. Check out the Desura comments for example.

By the way, the game rating is open again, so if you want to rate the game now is your chance.

The three main types of complaints are:
#1 That people can't start the game. The game write to it's install directory on windows so it requires an administrative account to run on newer operating systems. Lot's of kids are on their locked down parents computers and can't get rights.

#2 People can't save and close the game. The lack of an exit menu within the station throws people off. It is the first place people look for help. I say the "Esc" key should lead to the save menu so that people don't have to start their games over in case they don't find it in time. Maybe little bit of help could be in there too.

#3 The rest of the complaints are players having trouble figuring out what to do and how to do it. The tutorial really helps now but some people have trouble quickly finding out how to launch the ship. I think a small pop up message explaining the game and what to do first is all that is needed. Maybe also a simple link to the game guide in the exit menu.

There also were some specific complaints about the odd hard to use controls that can't be altered. So I figured that I could start work on a control scheme that is more familiar and modern.

Ship thruster sound was another complaint that made people think their sound was broken or that they were not moving. People will always complain about something, just hopefully not on the fundamentals.
klauss wrote:You probably can't cram all that info into a single png. Maybe you need two, to make the layout more readable? [...] That's why I was thinking of tackling RTT and then use that to tackle more flexible clickable interfaces. That would save the need for many keys.
Even with clickable interfaces the keyboard should be able to do everything alone. If there was an exit menu instead of just a sprite, a player could click around to navigate the controls but for now a single image will have to do. If put in a column while keeping the clusters like I said, larger labels would fit and be more visibly searchable with all the same benefits as before.
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