Docking: automate it.

[Neskiairti]

perhaps boring to you.. but i wasnt saying every station should have it.. just the very popular ones with lots of traffic.. or high populations.. :p dock at a research station in the middle of buttfuck nowhere... aint going to have a docking authority. a mining station probably wont either.. except specifically designed ones for the ore crate launches.
as for landing on planets, plenty of wide open spaces to land in :p


about the pilots maybe being trained professionals.. i kinda doubt it, some of the factions yes, but many of them seem rather ragtag. and I myself as a player, wouldn't be professionally trained.. :p

anyway, for most stations it should be a docking field away from the station you fly in to, 'park' and hit dock.. then it draws you in, or pilots you in.. or sends out drones to tug you in... or launches a docking tube and cable to link you up.

docking with ships should be a precarious situation, they never have docking authorities unless they are carriers or capital ships large enough to have launch bays.. and generally thats only for fighters.

realism doesn't have to be boring you know :p

[Rattan]

I would think that in most cases, pilots in the game would at a minimum have some equivalent of a private pilot's license. I don't think there's an effective way to strictly enforce that without it likely interfering with the fun of the gameplay though.

In single player mode, most people want to jump into their ship and see some stars as soon as possible after starting the game. If I recall correctly, back when I started, even the brief in-game tutorial didn't run without glitches. I think it went more or less ok until the trade part, and then when I came back after the little trade run it never finished and kept asking me if I wanted to start the tutorial (until I opted out of it).

If the multi-player mode ever really gets rolling, then having some sort of basic training might be necessary/desirable. Who wants to be pulling into the docking bay and have some total newbie slam into the back of your ship at full throttle because they don't know any better?

I think maybe the ultimate way to get training would be if the "duel" 2 player mode could have a few things like assorted types of stations and vehicles that allow docking added to it. Maybe a target practice range with asteroids or drones, a "pylon" course with asteroids or other obstacles to allow practising some manoeuvres. Then one could use it solo or try to con some player with some experience to coach you and teach you some moves. I've never tried VS with anything like teamspeak, but if it ( or something like it) can be run with VS, it'd make live coaching and "flight schools" workable enough.

With carriers and capships, I'd think they probably use an AI that is different then stations? Especially with the military ships, it seems logical that they might turn a turret or two on an approaching ship that hasn't asked for and gotten landing clearance or is approaching at what could be ramming speed. Big busy ports and shipyards would be the most likely to have tractor systems or computer assisted landings, I'd think. Little hole in the wall places like the Serenity mining station, it seems doubtful that they'd have such amenities or defences. Maybe at most a ship or two patrolling (if even that). But considering that mined ore or even raw materials like metals would sometimes be being picked up by rather large ships, it seems unlikely that they'd have a small "mail slot" sort of landing bay anyway. More likely a larger port where ships could pull in, load up and then continue on to pull out or maybe an open area more resembling an airstrip but low/zero gee. That could be a bit easier on newbies in the first place.

But to address a minor earlier point, I somewhat doubt that most players think of themselves as actually being "Deucalion". I know I don't when I'm playing.

[Psyco Diver 69]

But to address a minor earlier point, I somewhat doubt that most players think of themselves as actually being "Deucalion". I know I don't when I'm playing.

I pretend I'm Chuck Norris flying with everything blowing up around me because of my awesomeness

Maybe make some small bases places were you have to land manually but the big commercial bases and fighter barracks you fly to the big green box on the out side and they use tractors or whatever to park you. It was already mentioned tractors are used for bases and pirates....

[Boaal]

Yeah, I've always wished I could name myself in Vegastrike, and not be known as Shilmazil or whatever...

[Neskiairti]

well my problem with the idea of the pilots being licensed :p there are different factions.. warring factions.. they might have licenses for their own government, but most of the stations in the universe wont recognize those licenses... theres no overarching authority.

[Deus Siddis]

well my problem with the idea of the pilots being licensed :p there are different factions.. warring factions.. they might have licenses for their own government, but most of the stations in the universe wont recognize those licenses... theres no overarching authority.

You just aren't paying close attention to the existing canon.

The Confederation is the overarching authority. Most factions are not at war with each other. The character you play as, Deucalion, is tracked by all factions and has an impressive flight record extending well before game start. Licensed or not he is trusted enough to execute routine docking maneuvers.

Civilians have full access to and regularly boast weapons of equivalent power to nukes, which can scatter whole stations into dust in a matter of seconds. Low speed docking hazards are not their greatest concern.

[travists]

I have been thinking that this feature would be nice myself. As for the reality of the auto-dock feature, do we have any "Mythbusters" fans in the audience? When they tackled the untrained passenger landing a plane it was revealed in the end that it would be unnecessary as most MODERN jetliners have sufficiently advanced autopilots and ground comms that just flipping a couple of switches and setting a dial is all that is required to land a plane today. Many military piloted fighters are capable of flying entire missions by themselves. Additionally the Russians cargo casuals that go to the ISS normally dock themselves requiring human guidance only if something is not quite right. The pilots biggest task today is to deal with the unexpected; say combat, malfunctions, bird collisions. As such an Automated Landing System does not seem explicitly precluded. Though it may be an upgrade to be purchased (first you must learn to do it the hard way, then you can use the shortcut). Think Wing Commander III, first you request clearance, then you can either do so manually OR engage the autopilot to automate it. At a minimum upon docking clearance recommended vectors should be given. Even in WWII pilots didn't land blind! Thats my two cents anyway.

[pheonixstorm]

Since auto docking is already in the code why not activate it as a key command and not an automatic feature. This may be a space flight sim but making it TOO realistic is well... a bit unrealistic. Going from Atlantis to the klkk mining base takes long enough as it is. We want a FUN trading space sim, but during long SPEC I start googling stuff.

The default should be manual docking with the option to auto dock. After specing around for 30 - 60 seconds I really don't want to spend another 15-30 trying to line up my flight profile with tiny docking slot. And to make things more interesting (its something that bugs me about Privateer) you CAN'T auto dock while in combat. What sane dock officier would want to bring in something thats getting shot at

Anyway, my 2 cents are: 1. undocumented auto dock feature 2. (probably not feasable due to multiplayer) Skip the long part of SPEC or at least make it happen quicker (ie Privateer)

I don't mind the boring details.. but I also want to get back to dog fights and trading as quick as I can.

Oh, and modern jumbo jet autopilot can take off, fly, and land w/o a human crew. A great many things are automated. Computers can simply do things faster and on a more precise scale than humans. I think if there was a failsafe way to interconnect air traffic control and autopilot computer aboard commercial airliners it would be done.

[breese]

We should allow autodocking by offering a docking computer as an upgrade item, which is what Elite did. If you have a docking computer, then it will take over when you request docking (by pressing the 'd' key.)

This makes autodocking an optional feature, which fits nicely into the game, e.g. a docking computer has a weight and a price like all other upgrades, and who knows, maybe you can buy more capable docking computers in the future.

Taking about autodocking, have you noticed that the AIs are really bad at plotting a path to their docking ports, especially at starfortresses? I have been experimenting with way-points for docking ports for a completely different feature, but I believe that such way-points could be used to enhance the flight-path of docking ships -- including the player's ship.

[travists]

We should allow autodocking by offering a docking computer as an upgrade item, which is what Elite did. ... I have been experimenting with way-points for docking ports for a completely different feature, but I believe that such way-points could be used to enhance the flight-path of docking ships -- including the player's ship.

That meshes nicely with another though I had with autopilot/docking computers. Autopilot could handle jumping through multiple systems as well, and alert the player when something bad happens, or nearing the final destination and human interaction is required again. kind of like the Millennium Falcon from Star Wars... "Coming up on Alderan". Nice for us cargo pilots, but not strictly necessary. BTW I have successfully docked a mule with several base types, it's a pain, but doable

[breese]

I had a look at the docking code today. There are two independent autodocking features.

First, the AI/autodock setting in vegaconfig.config enables you to automatically request docking clearance when you get close enough to the station, and clear the docking clearance if you move too far away. This is all that it does. It does not automatically dock your ship. You still have to pilot it to the docking port and press the docking key. The distance is determined by the physics/auto_pilot_termination_distance setting, which does not take the size of the station into account.

Second, the physics/AutoLandingEnabled setting will tell you if you are close to a dockable object (determined by the physics/AutoLandingWarningDistance) and try to dock your ship if you get even closer (physics/AutoLandingMoveDistance). Unfortunately it does not work. It simply jumps your ship very close to the station and presses the docking ('d') key for you. This strategy may work for planets (although I did not try), but fails miserably for stations, where you have to be inside a docking port while pressing the docking key.

In summary, there is no auto-docking code that can easily enabled in the current codebase.

[Deus Siddis]

Since auto docking is already in the code why not activate it as a key command and not an automatic feature. This may be a space flight sim but making it TOO realistic is well... a bit unrealistic. Going from Atlantis to the klkk mining base takes long enough as it is. We want a FUN trading space sim, but during long SPEC I start googling stuff.

What makes SPEC seem so slow though is that it is automated, which means you don't have much to do while it is happening. If you automated docking, you'd just be compounding the problem.

If we aren't a lot more careful about how and what we make automatic, the whole game will evolve into an endless cutscene.

For example, this is how the game would currently play with automated docking added on. You'd find a profitable trade route, and since the economy I don't think is dynamic at all yet, you'd just fly it back and forth or around and around (no further player interaction there). So you launch from your starting point with cargo in hull, and engage the SPEC drive auto-pilot for the destination wormhole. You arrive and auto JUMP into the wormhole. Then you get attacked! But auto trackers and guided missiles do the trick. You autopilot through some more SPEC and JUMP navigation and the autopilot drops you off just outside the destination station. Now you engage automated docking. Mission accomplished.

But spending all this time waiting around to occasionally hit the S, D and J keys is also boring it turns out. So next the autopilot is upgraded to chain these tasks together. Now all one does is buy something or take a mission, select the destination station or planet several jumps away and engage the autopilot.

Between autopilot navigation and push button warfare, you are now free to spend the entire time you are playing VS, surfing google.


Instead of skipping over gameplay that feels slow, we need to make that gameplay more dynamic and intricate and interactive. This will take a lot of work and time, implementing and adjusting numerous features to fill out the VS experience, but it's the only way. In short we need to think about adding, not subtracting gameplay (subtraction is basically what automation does).

At the same time, if you are spending a lot of time on a mission, be it a trade run, bounty, exploration or whatever, you should be getting paid a lot for it. Long and arduous should equal greatly rewarding. And this is something we could fix before the next release too.

[Gungnir]

In short we need to think about adding, not subtracting gameplay.

Yes, my thoughts exactly. When I play a game, I want to play a game, not watch a cutscene. Auto-pilot is enough automation for me.

[pheonixstorm]

Actually, my automate it (docking, spec) is more the privateer style. Hit spec and once your counter hits .07c you get a 3 second fly by then start decel. Autodock: get the nice entering automatic landing zone or whatever and within 3s your on the base tarmac. I found that auto spec I spend time (windowed game) switching between VC9 and the game or reading up on the site. Manual docking is both boring as hell and exciting due to the real rick of slamming into a base. Although the docking distance should either be increased slightly or at least automated those last 100m so so.

The idea is to make the game more enjoyable for those that don't want to be bored by a minute long spec.

So, the real question we should all ask is how can we have both. Maybe a game option for VS style docking and spec or privateer style docking and spec. The coding issues might prevent it but this option allows us to satisy players who want a GAME and not a ultra realistic space flight sim. Thats what i'm getting at. In the end VS is still a game sitting on the razors edge of realism vs fun.

[travists]

Privateer style would work well. Like the idea of switching too! Greater distance equals more pay would a nice tweak. It would appear to me that the argument is partly what each individual conceders fun, and partly how to keep the game engaging. Resource management, and other shipboard/flight related tasks would fill the gap during long autopilot sessions. Nearly instantaneous autopilot would help. Ever notice in the original Privateer how there are bad guys everywhere? I've been trying to get rich with a zero kill score and haven't had much difficulty. So, does the development team want to just drop the subject, make autopilot and docking instant, or automate mundane tasks further and provide the pilot with more to do en route? What can I say; the dismissive manner with which this post was first treated rubbed me the wrong way.

[charlieg]

Guys, to make the game attractive to people who are not sci fi nerds, you have to cut the tedium out of it.

Things like trading cargo, taking missions, fighting pirates, this is all fun.

Docking over and over again or waiting for SPEC, this is tedious.

Auto-dock and auto-spec (accelerated time?) should be options. I'm not saying you need to skip them altogether, but you have to provide a way to stop the player being forced to do the same thing over and over again.

Perhaps it should be a feature of the space station you are docking with, rather than your ship? That way you could auto-dock in main trading stations, but some missions or more hostile places will require you do it yourself. That would add to the gameplay by adding variety.

[pheonixstorm]

Guys, to make the game attractive to people who are not sci fi nerds, you have to cut the tedium out of it.

Thats the general idea, but even sci-fi nerds will grow bored quickly. From planet launch to landing takes a lot of time.

Things like trading cargo, taking missions, fighting pirates, this is all fun.

Docking over and over again or waiting for SPEC, this is tedious.

Auto-dock and auto-spec (accelerated time?) should be options. I'm not saying you need to skip them altogether, but you have to provide a way to stop the player being forced to do the same thing over and over again.

This is why I thought about allowing an option between VS style play and Priv style play or having an undocumented key

Perhaps it should be a feature of the space station you are docking with, rather than your ship? That way you could auto-dock in main trading stations, but some missions or more hostile places will require you do it yourself. That would add to the gameplay by adding variety.

This is a really good idea. Some of the smaller stations would need a fully automated docking system while larger or busier stations would not allow any ol pilot to try to dock manually due to the volume of traffic.

Look at how many downloads v.4.3 had, roughly 500k compared to .5 which had around 250k. Why did so many people not come back for the .5 update?? About half the downloads lost. What was the reason? The tediusness of it or something else??

Changing things now might be moot, but this is an issue that we seriously need to consider. I enjoy vegastrike for the most part and the extra attention another 500k or more downloads would bring would help out a lot to get more coders and artists to help refactor and get all of the other elements up to par with the work that klauss, chuck, and the rest of us have done.

[pheonixstorm]

I actually like the challenge of docking a fully loaded llama

hehe 4551% mass llama on approach to serinity makes me cringe. Drop out of spec, flip, then apply afterburners. hit 1500 meters flip back and cut speed to zero then apply forward thrusters to -31 and hope you can nudge in to that docking slot and hit d before you bounce off or crash.

But we need more controls. The ship has to strafe into position, and those keys aren't bound by default. And the manual has to be updated to teach you docking. And perhaps the tutorial too.

And a few guiding boxes (think of ILS) would also help.

I think the last part would be very helpful to start with. Maybe automate this at 5000 meters. Some type of guidance system to show up on the HUD or a correct approach and simple instructions or something to make docking a little easier. Maybe extend the dock distance to 500-1000 meters depending on how close you have to be now.

[Deus Siddis]

Things like trading cargo, taking missions, fighting pirates, this is all fun.

Docking over and over again or waiting for SPEC, this is tedious.

My issue is that I see each of these things as having the potential to be very fun. But it is the way they are currently implemented that allows all of the things you listed to become tedious after a little while. So let's have a closer look:

Take trading cargo. You find planet A sells item 1 low and station B buys item 1 high. You go back and forth, back and forth between the two making money. But does this ever change, and if so, does it change for a reason the player can predict? Because if not yes to both of those questions, then trading becomes really tedious (which it seems to as currently implemented). Without a truly dynamic, semi intelligent economy that offers some small clues to the player so that he can create and adjust trading and navigation strategies to seek greater riches, trading becomes tedious.

Take combat. If you've spent anytime in multiplayer, against an intelligent opponent who will use whatever will work best (unlike the legacy AI), you know that missiles basically are unstoppable. Without missiles, autotrackers become more or less unstoppable. Even without these two push button warfare features, it isn't really clear how much skill and complexity there is to attacking and evading, combat implemented the way it currently is.

Taking on missions is nothing more than considering how much you will make versus who you will piss off in the universe, if anyone.

And if we automate away more of everything else, the minimalism and repetition of these three not fully fleshed out game mechanics listed above will only show after fewer hours of playtime. Now let's look at those bad features. . .

SPEC travel. In 0.4.3, you actually flew your ship around manually in SPEC (only). It was like normal flight, with inertia and avoiding gravity wells that could arrest your travel. You would have to fly carefully in hostile space because other strike craft could actually pull you out of SPEC and force a fight on you. Even so SPEC navigation wasn't so complex and it could eventually become tedious, but it was a start at least. Now SPEC is faster, no hostile units have a chance at pulling you into a fight in open space, and navigation has an efficient autopilot. Instead of more aspects being added to long distance navigation to make it more interesting, everything was stripped away, and even though it now takes less time it feels even slower and as a result folks are asking for another level of automation that will make it even more pointless.

But what if there were vast asteroid belts, nebulae, gas giants and black holes to bravely navigate during SPEC travel? What if your radar was not so perfect to pick out every pirate in the system as soon as you jumped in, so that you could be ambushed at almost anytime by hostiles you only became aware of at 10 or 100 kilometers? What if there were long abandoned alien derelicts drifting in the dark or packs of exotic (and potentially dangerous) deep space life?

Docking and landing is much the same story. There aren't enough of obstacles (debris, traffic, complex station geometry) to avoid with good flight skills. There's no gravity or air friction. There's not a lot of enemies to add to and compound these challenges. There's no ability to explore or fight within the interior of the station or interact with characters and story clues there. There's no planetary bases or surface forces to attack, defend or avoid.

And again, on top of everything, it takes a long time to make any money. So the variation in game experience that comes from using new ships and weapons, comes very slowly. This makes you feel like you need to run missions faster, to get anywhere in the game. But what you really need is for each one to count for more (as well as be more challenging and eventful).

[pheonixstorm]

Good points Deus. Lets face it folks, we have balance issues to work out on all fronts.

Trading needs a better econ model. A side idea though once you get a profitable route setup then A. the merchant AI catches on and everyone uses that route and/or B. you buy a new flying brick and hand over the run to a hired crew while you go find the next big thing, or C. Find a route, use it for awhile, then sell it to the merchants guild for a hefty nickel plated cap ship.

Combat i've only dealt with twice. The first time they died by dumbfire (stupid AI wanted to go head to head) and the second I just ran from hehe.

interdicting SPEC sounds like something we need though. Could be used during battles, pirate ambushes, or if you are the pirate. Crank up that gravity projector in a highly trafficed trade route and watch the fat merchies roll in.


Now, who is the target audience for VS? The average gamer or the realism nut?

I for one like realism to a point. I enjoy games that I can micromange. But it can't be pointless micromanagement, tedious beyond the verge of boredom, or just boring micro.

[travists]

Deus Siddis makes sense, while off topic, I especially like the dynamic cargo pricing. As for baddies not droping you out of SPEC why not? The AI would probably need an upgrade, but you have gravity manipulation right? Gravity mines could be dropped in a merchant craft's path dropping the target out of SPEC AND slowing it further with it's temporary gravity well, thus creating the perfect ambush. A scanners range should be the scanners range. Perhaps long and short range outputs, but at a certain distance you should have no idea what is out there. Even bases and planets are just a nav point transmitters . Derelicts could be interesting. They might be just lifeless hulks, or they may contain surprises. A defunct sleeper ship with an ISO legend somehow still perfectly frozen, a millennia old alien fighter with unheard of capabilities, any number of things could be hidden within. Back to dynamic pricing: product price = (avg materials cost + avg labor cost + overhead) x profit margin; modify that by supply vs. demand e.g. (qty on hand + production rate + import rate - usage rate - export rate) x storage space. A csv listing each product for each planet and base and the more you run a given course the less profit. Places on the frontier have generally higher prices than not. Attacks or random disasters (or boons) could change demand and/or production, changing product costs for several systems around.

[pheonixstorm]

Yeah, the econ has several threads on ways to make it better or more realistic or something more advanced than what it is now.

[Deus Siddis]

Good points Deus. Lets face it folks, we have balance issues to work out on all fronts.

Trading needs a better econ model. A side idea though once you get a profitable route setup then A. the merchant AI catches on and everyone uses that route and/or B. you buy a new flying brick and hand over the run to a hired crew while you go find the next big thing, or C. Find a route, use it for awhile, then sell it to the merchants guild for a hefty nickel plated cap ship.

Basically any or all of these features would help a lot, in addition to travists' suggestion of major local events affecting prices on a planet/station or solar system.

Combat i've only dealt with twice. The first time they died by dumbfire (stupid AI wanted to go head to head) and the second I just ran from hehe.

interdicting SPEC sounds like something we need though. Could be used during battles, pirate ambushes, or if you are the pirate. Crank up that gravity projector in a highly trafficed trade route and watch the fat merchies roll in.

Yes and these two things are probably not unrelated. In 0.4.3 you'd have seen a lot of combat due to hostile SPEC interceptions, but in 0.5.0 ships can only catch up to you if you enter the gravity well of something really big like a station or planet.

Now, who is the target audience for VS? The average gamer or the realism nut?

It definitely seems like something in between the two is what VS is targeted at.

But an important thing to remember, is that among the mods that use this same engine, like PU, Vega Trek and others that will probably be developed in the future, Vega Strike is the most realistic feeling of the bunch. The other mods' universes have a distinctly fantasy-ish feeling and rely heavily on storytelling to stay interesting.

But VS plays like reality with dynamic, simulated wars forming the backdrop rather than a scripted, more canon-bound story. And the player's influences on his surrounding universe is exerted directly by his actions in the dynamic universe, rather than exclusively based on what scripted campaign missions he accepts or declines.

I have absolutely no doubt that VS can stand out strongly from the crowd as a believable, far from impossible vision of the future that is simultaneously deeply immersive, accessible, consistently entertaining and endlessly replayable. There's basically no "gameplay versus realism" situation that I can see, the two can be artfully combined with little compromise. But the keyword there is artfully. Because up to this point, many of VS' seeming design decisions are actually the results of inertia and neglect.

I for one like realism to a point. I enjoy games that I can micromanage. But it can't be pointless micromanagement, tedious beyond the verge of boredom, or just boring micro.

The challenge for us is to get rid of the pointlessness.

Flight sims, trade sims, shooters, RPG's, RTS', each of these is an entire genre of games that couldn't have become so popular if it was altogether, fundamentally boring. And each major aspect of VS from navigation to trading to docking to combat, falls into one of these genres. So we know for sure each one of these things can be fun. We just have to decide how and then make it happen. And already I think we have gobs of good ideas for the how, and more still we can extract from existing games that did the above genre's right.

[Boaal]

avoiding gravity wells that could arrest your travel. You would have to fly carefully in hostile space because other strike craft could actually pull you out of SPEC and force a fight on you.

Gravity wells were HORRIBLE. I barely had any idea what was going on. My ship would just stop at random, and it was frustrating as all hell. As for being pulled out of spec by enemy craft – God yes. Even on a basic setting logic front it makes sense. Take the pirates: If the pirates couldn’t pull people out of spec, then they’d never make any money because everyone would just Spec away, nothing would be profitable. That said, I like how I don’t gave to wait a minute an a half to escape from the gravity pull of a station, and I don’t want to be pulled out of travel by every god damn thing between me and my destination if it’s not going to attack me. If it was simply enemies and hostiles that could force a fight it’d be fine.

But what if there were vast asteroid belts, nebulae, gas giants and black holes to bravely navigate during SPEC travel? What if your radar was not so perfect to pick out every pirate in the system as soon as you jumped in, so that you could be ambushed at almost anytime by hostiles you only became aware of at 10 or 100 kilometers? What if there were long abandoned alien derelicts drifting in the dark or packs of exotic (and potentially dangerous) deep space life?

Black holes would be interesting; I think they’d be rather hard to implement gameplay wise, though. There’d have to be some hefty thought on how they worked. Asteroid belts, ships wrecks, etc would be brilliant. Dog fighting around scenery is a lot more intense than just space – you have a lot more to think about, a lot more to work with, if anyone has ever played any of the X3 games then they’ll know what I mean. It becomes very interesting when you’re not just waiting for your crosshairs to line up and click. It’s also very impressive when you have a contrast of scale – if anyone’s had a fight around a Clydesdale, or a space station, they’ll get what I mean – you and your opponents become these tiny little things that can use the terrain to their advantage, you can use the surroundings so much more tactically that you can in open space. This type of thin works particularly well in an urban environment like a city – while that may not fit very well with vegastrike, I’m throwing out there as a good example. Some of the star wars flight based games had dog fights around things like this; flying between a load of towers and down some trenches to escape an enemy that blasting the hell out of your back, while trying to out manoeuvre them was a lot of fun. It also helps with orientation, which may seem like a pointless thing in space but it’s not, when you know you’re flying upside down, things get very interesting on a purely psychological level, it requires a little more thought and you instinctively want to right yourself again.

I’m all for a lessening of the Radar scale, too. It does tend to take away a giant chunk of the suspense, the unexpected and the danger, if you know everything there is to know the second you get to a place. A lack of an all-powerful Radar and also a limited range comms system – these could be used to interesting effect in game (I don’t have specifics to back that one up, really. I do think the idea of knowing when you’re near a random fight, some hostiles or something else like that, that it adds a bit of depth and twist). When you don’t know what’s around the corner, especially in a procedurally generated game, you’re always looking for it.

complex station geometry

Did anybody else think of the big ‘pyramid within a pyramid’ Rlaan things? I think we can all agree that they are the bane of our vegastrike existences? But I do know what he means, it ties in very well with what I was saying about the scenery and using it to your advantage and as a more interactive setting. As for ‘alien geometry’ complex is good, as long as it’s not overly obstructive as the test Rlaan Starfortresses are.

And again, on top of everything, it takes a long time to make any money. So the variation in game experience that comes from using new ships and weapons, comes very slowly.

This is my main frustration and the reason why, after a small time just doing a few bounties in a Hyena, I get bored and think “How far is the gap between me and the next ship in line? Too damn big.”

I had to do a few cargo missions to get the Hyena and that was fine and fun. I had to fly a couple of bounty missions to pay for new equipment and a few upgrades, along side that I had to pay for repairs, but that was also fine and fun. Now, after I’ve tricked out my Hyena with affordable stuff, I have to fly approximately a hundred or so missions, taking into account roughly every time I have to repair my ship, to afford the next interesting thing.

I get bored and disheartened after another few missions because the gap is so ridiculously large.
You know what would make that gap easier? Ship captures. If I can hijack a ship off of some guy that would prefer that I take their ship and not kill them, send that ship limping back to a base or something, sell it (or add it to my own fleet) I have made a whole load of money in no time at all and that gap closes in a nice big chunk and makes me think that that other ship I was going for is actually attainable.

Another thing is, once again this comes up, if I have my own self-built fleet of captured ships that do what I tell them to, whether it be 'follow me around the universe and protect my arse' (this would be great for hauling cargo) or 'Stay here and guard this system' or whatever, then I still, even if they're just a bunch of trashed Hyenas which I haven't had to funds to patch up yet (assuming I didn't sell them), feel like I'm making a significant gain and a significant step forward. This does somewhat relegate hired help to the back benches, but I feel that it's a more than fair tradeoff in the cause of a more enjoyable, less intimidating game.

Gravity mines could be dropped in a merchant craft's path dropping the target out of SPEC AND slowing it further with its temporary gravity well, thus creating the perfect ambush.

I really like this idea, but they would have to be easily visible, otherwise the player is stuck casting around like a beached whale for no apparent reason. It results in the same frustration as the ‘TROLOLOL GRAVITY WELL YOU DIDN’T KNOW EXISTED’ from 4.3

[travists]

If you have ever played Star Trek: Armada, then you know one of my thoughts for gravity mines. Attaches to your ship increasing it's mass. The more common variety uses the same theoretical principle behind the tractor beam, and so would be only on for a relatively short time. Though I have no ideological problem with highly visible. The thing would have to be fairly large, perhaps a meter in diameter, and may be glowing. Interesting how things can go from auto-docking to new weapons! I still think advanced auto pilot features w/ new twists to fill the gaps would be a great idea.