Fixing wiki to forum links

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log0

Fixing wiki to forum links

Post by log0 »

Would be great if someone with admin rights could do a search/replace on wiki content ( maybe using this http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Replace_Text ) and change

http://vegastrike.sourceforge.net/forums

to

http://forums.vega-strike.org

Doing it manually is kinda tedious.
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Re: Fixing wiki to forum links

Post by pheonixstorm »

yeah, I try to make changes every so often.. will look into it. Not sure how the admin rights are setup with the wiki using the forum user accounts though...
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Re: Fixing wiki to forum links

Post by Augie.Ben.Doggie »

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Re: Fixing wiki to forum links

Post by maze »

The other day I was looking at that wiki, all the work that remains to be done on it, and how it can hardly be on top of anyone's priority list. Thus I was thinking, wouldn't it be great if someone made a php script which can parse the contents of data files (units, weapons, master part list, ...) into human-readable wiki or even html format?

Not that I'd do it myself because that wouldn't be on top of my priority list either. I'd rather contribute things which directly enhance my gaming experience. But from a project perspective I can see how this would be a potential time saver.
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Re: Fixing wiki to forum links

Post by Augie.Ben.Doggie »

maze wrote:The other day I was looking at that wiki, all the work that remains to be done on it,
Amen!
maze wrote:and how it can hardly be on top of anyone's priority list. Thus I was thinking, wouldn't it be great if someone
There looking at me, kid?
maze wrote:made a php script which can parse the contents of data files (units, weapons, master part list, ...) into human-readable wiki or even html format?
Yes, I agree. Not only is the documentation project at only half the completion mark(after how many years?), it also appears it's completely unsupportable once finished (assuming it to be maintained the manual way). It's a moving target after all and you can't expect to ask everyone who adds a new ship/weapon/cargo/piece of space junk to go and update the wiki every time.

Automatic content generation is the way to go. The question is how to do it. There are a hundred ways and a few questions that need answers.
  1. Where to put the content?
    php, html or wiki? From my limited perspective I would favour the wiki because
    1. It's there and already the place for the game database.
    2. Formatting is straight forward by using (wiki)templates. So it can be done straight on the wiki rather than messing with the script.
    3. The wiki is easily accessible in respect to access management so updates could be run from anywhere without any changes to security configuration - I understand from phoenix comment above this might be a nuisance to set up.
    4. I've just done a script to edit the wiki for the links project - although it's in ruby and probably needs transcoding into python to be compliant with vega-strike coding standards(is that right?).
    5. The one argument I see against the wiki is that it's basically a tool meant to be user editable. But I suppose if we stick it in a dedicated namespace (I think it is already) and add a header to each page saying it's going to be automatically overwritten from time to time we should get away with it.
  2. How to automate execution of the script?
    Is there a way to hook into subversion? I.e. could an update get triggered by revision increments or something like that? I suppose there is always the cron job option. In that case the job wouldn't necessarily have to run on the server if that is an issue. I also think the script should be written in a way that it can do incremental updates rather than blasting a full update of the whole data set every time someone sticks a comma into a comment and uploads that to svn.
  3. Where *** **** is the ******* data anyway?
    Here is what I think I found so far: (looking at base root at trunk)
    1. masters has all the (raw) image data.
    2. data/master_part_list.csv seems to be the place to start selecting? Contains "shopping" stats and a description.
    3. data/units/units.csv at first glance the key column here seems to match with master_part_list.csv... Contains all kinds of stats, descriptions (again) etc. I just can't say I understand it yet.
    4. data/units/units-description.csv kind of a multi-hash file containing a key for a unit, and a description (yet again)
So any hints on how to approach the data are highly welcome.

There are some more data files like data/units/turretsize.txt or data/weapon_list.xml that may be important too.
maze wrote:Not that I'd do it myself because that wouldn't be on top of my priority list either. I'd rather contribute things which directly enhance my gaming experience. But from a project perspective I can see how this would be a potential time saver.
That's fine. And if I can free up some time for those of you guys that have their heads already wrapped around other development I'm probably working more efficiently to the same end as starting to hack the engine myself. Especially when the end result is a tidier project that lowers the entry threshold for new potential contributors.
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Re: Fixing wiki to forum links

Post by maze »

Awesome that you have already started to prep.
Augie.Ben.Doggie wrote:
  1. Where to put the content?
    php, html or wiki? From my limited perspective I would favour the wiki because
    1. It's there and already the place for the game database.
    2. Formatting is straight forward by using (wiki)templates. So it can be done straight on the wiki rather than messing with the script.
    3. The wiki is easily accessible in respect to access management so updates could be run from anywhere without any changes to security configuration - I understand from phoenix comment above this might be a nuisance to set up.
    4. I've just done a script to edit the wiki for the links project - although it's in ruby and probably needs transcoding into python to be compliant with vega-strike coding standards(is that right?).
    5. The one argument I see against the wiki is that it's basically a tool meant to be user editable. But I suppose if we stick it in a dedicated namespace (I think it is already) and add a header to each page saying it's going to be automatically overwritten from time to time we should get away with it.
  2. How to automate execution of the script?
    Is there a way to hook into subversion? I.e. could an update get triggered by revision increments or something like that? I suppose there is always the cron job option. In that case the job wouldn't necessarily have to run on the server if that is an issue. I also think the script should be written in a way that it can do incremental updates rather than blasting a full update of the whole data set every time someone sticks a comma into a comment and uploads that to svn.
Here's my take on two of theses items:

1-e: Only the database section of the wiki would be auto-generated. The thing is, rather than copying game stats into another formatting, I guess most humans would prefer to focus on writing the stuff which actually requires human creativity, which there is plenty to write anyway, like gameplay advice, tutorials, how-tos, history time lines, faction background information and so on... Optionally, some blank entry could be left in the auto-generated database, in case someone feels the need to write something here which can't fit an in-game description block.

2: while useful this sort of automation is not a requirement. After all, the database must be regenerated (or a new database must be generated) only when a new release candidate version is released (or when a new version is released), which is not that common. Other than this, automatically regenerating a moving database every time data is committed to svn could be a nice addition, but not a required one.
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Re: Fixing wiki to forum links

Post by Augie.Ben.Doggie »

maze wrote:1-e: Only the database section of the wiki would be auto-generated. The thing is, rather than copying game stats into another formatting, I guess most humans would prefer to focus on writing the stuff which actually requires human creativity, which there is plenty to write anyway, like gameplay advice, tutorials, how-tos, history time lines, faction background information and so on... Optionally, some blank entry could be left in the auto-generated database, in case someone feels the need to write something here which can't fit an in-game description block.
Noted. As I am not Susan Calvin I will just get the basics set up first and maybe later try and explain to the androids how to ignore a human editable text within the auto-generated one. Or, maybe not within but after... don't know yet. Decision postponed.
maze wrote:2: while useful this sort of automation is not a requirement. After all, the database must be regenerated (or a new database must be generated) only when a new release candidate version is released (or when a new version is released), which is not that common. Other than this, automatically regenerating a moving database every time data is committed to svn could be a nice addition, but not a required one.
You implicitly raised a point there I haven't thought about yet. What set of data is going to end up on the wiki? Is it going to be svn HEAD or the last release? Well, it's probably just going to be a matter of changing ... like ... probably less than a hand full of variables and you can do both easily enough. Just different namespaces, categories etc. I actually think there is a real case for us to have both available.
  1. Having the current release (i.e. 0.5.1 at the time of writing) is important for most players that probably get the game through their respective distro. I. e. we would improve our public representation if an appropriate database was there.
  2. The svn HEAD will be useful for experimentally minded players or, more to the point, people thinking to do some form of contribution that want to view the current state of the game (and I am especially thinking here of potential new contributors that don't want to spend a week to understand the intrinsics of the configuration files). That's for one to get an overview of the current state of the game, but also (last not least) for motivation: "YEAAAAA, my latest design of aluminium scap has been published!!!" And deprecating as this may sound; I would love to see more honestly and seriously implemented junk in this game :twisted:
The more I think about it the more I think we need the two versions online (realease + svn HEAD). Any good arguments against it???

'nother one ... I found how to get the pictures for previous svn releases. So (blinking with one eye on the svn data structures and with the other on the configuration files) I could do that all. All I need is the corresponding svn release number for 0.5.1. Can anyone help me out with that? Couldn't find it...

Ok. Now, I noticed the lack of responses on this thread. I had seriously hoped to get some hints from people that know the game inside out. I suppose the reason this hasn't happened so far is, we are way off topic here. Who of the engine developers still in their right mind (and with better things to do) would follow a lengthily thread with the title "Fixing wiki to forum links" in the expectation of reading anything remotely interesting?

I've got more to tell about my own researches regarding questions raised in point 3. of my last post but I feel this should be done in a new topic dedicated to "automating the wiki game database"...

And although the art of necromantic belongs to an altogether different genre than ours I think I risk the wrath of the gods and do it anyway on an ancient thread on "Unified DB Resource" as I think I've got something new to contribute to that ol shoe.
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Re: Fixing wiki to forum links

Post by loki1950 »

Hi Augie how about svn HEAD and the release branch that should cover both the bleeding nose and duck and cover crowds and both should be available directly from svn.

Enjoy the Choice :)
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Re: Fixing wiki to forum links

Post by Augie.Ben.Doggie »

Hi Loki, thanks for the input. Yes, it's all on svn. All I need to find is the svn release number that corresponds with the 0.5.1 release... I still have not found that one.

That's probably due to the fact that I do have to do a lot of looking up to do right now. I understand the basic data structure of Vega Strike now (config file wise) but there are way more nooks and crannies than I thought there would be.

Just an update on what I have been doing recently. I said I would open the new thread and necromise the db thread. I shoved all that on the stack for now as I don't think that - right now - I am really all that desperate for any input from the developer crowd (as I've found most of my questions answered as far as they seem to be known to anyone as it looks). Rather, I need to keep my head down and actually look at those files, join up relationships and most importantly document the whole thing (or rather try and improve the documentation that's already there).

Ok, I found the documentation on the wiki of course. If anyone reads this and thinks I need a hint I would be most grateful, as always! But I think I've got the lead now and as it is, it just takes some more thinking, looking, writing down, double checking, thinking again, finding new leads, looking some more, triple checking, deleting what I've written before, writing everything new from scratch, quadruple check... etc. You know the process... nothing new for an old DBA like me. :wink: just takes some time.

The other thing is: I had a look at the existing database on the wiki... My impression of what's there right now is - as inconsistent as it may appear - there are a lot of ideas that don't seem to come from- or to be implemented in the game (yet). People have been writing things they were probably thinking of implementing but never came around doing it. But a wiki is a great tool for developing new ideas. So I think that's what has been happening there. I know a bit about that because I used to have one locally on my box at home just for that purpose.

The long and short of it is, I wouldn't want to overwrite any of that with a bloody script! It's still a mess though that probably needs cleaning and is hardly suitable as a reference for new users or aspiring potential developers! There should be two more data sets that are actually generated from the configuration of the game in both states, i.e. development and release (ok, and as far as I am concerned I'll consider these as an established requirement in the scope of my project now). Furthermore those two 'robotic editons' should guarantee you that their data set represents what you have in the game. And at the same time we may want to retain an edition (basically the existing one) that may be a potential greenhouse for new artistic and conceptual ideas to grow in.

By the way, having said all that I don't think I will manage on the first release but maybe on the second or third. I'll just have to go and cut at one point the 'looking around' business and actually start doing something (as in implementing some code). Possibly I'll have to install a new wiki here on one of my own computers - just for testing.

So, again and back to the point, in short and in other words (edit: yukk what a sentence!!!): On the wiki I think we should have:
  • One area to develop, expand, dream up ideas. Some restructuring of the existing data set wouldn't hurt though, as some thoughts seem to have been abandoned.
  • One with an automatised exact copy of the current release (as in 0.5.1 at the time of writing this).
  • One with an automatised exact copy of the current data set on svn HEAD, done just the same way as for the point above.
And, as if that wasn't enough yet, I've got yet another thing to add. I don't seem to be able to create namespaces on the wiki. And what I thought I've seen there about existing namespaces for the 'database' was just not there (see post above). So if someone who is wiki-wise could drop me a note so I know who you are. I don't know yet exactly what and how the entire thing should be done, but once I've played around with it locally I don't expect it's going to be a lot of hassle for you to set up (providing your access rights are sorted of course).

And ... yet ... a last one. If any moderator should read this - would you be so kind moving the part of the thread from the point where maze started his (or her AFAIK) post "The other day I was looking..." to a new thread called "automating the wiki game database" or something like that.

Thank you very much indeed!
Last edited by Augie.Ben.Doggie on Fri Jan 18, 2013 11:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Fixing wiki to forum links

Post by klauss »

Augie.Ben.Doggie wrote:Hi Loki, thanks for the input. Yes, it's all on svn. All I need to find is the svn release number that corresponds with the 0.5.1 release... I still have not found that one.
It's tagged and branched.
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Re: Fixing wiki to forum links

Post by Augie.Ben.Doggie »

thanks, I've only seen a tag for 0.5.0 so far. Been looking at the wrong place.
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Re: Fixing wiki to forum links

Post by Augie.Ben.Doggie »

Just an update. There was no progress in the last three weeks as I've lost my home and access to my dev and backup machine. I hope to have them back in another couple of weeks.
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