Aera Starfortress

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GAlex
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Aera Starfortress

Post by GAlex »

for now, the aera starfortress is a pyramid with a hole on one face, with another pyramid inside (tryed flying in but my clydesdale was too big! :lol: )

without leaving the original concept ('cause it is a concept, is it?), i thought the model could use some refinements, and here are the results.

again, it's a pyramid of some sort, and you must enter it's belly to dock (the dock bays are placed in the four protrusion from the main hull.

the sphere was intended to be some sort of something, err... maybe communications? (added three little antennas), or defense? or what?
well in my first intentions that ball should be capable of reentering a bit so the hole could be blocked from incoming enemy incursions.
bad idea? i don't know.

it has only a few greebles (played with the discombobulator in blender) since the outer part should be thought as an immense hull (it's a starfortress after all), and the most of the remaining details could be added texture-side.

it's not textured, only performed a radiosity baking to add some lighting effects.

my question to all of you is: is it worth the texturing job?

your comments wellcomed.

(a note on picture 4, it was rendered with the ambient occlusion on and no light inside to give a more claustrophobic sense, but IMO it's ugly :cry: )

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Post by To Megatherion »

Well, I like it. Especially if it is easier to enter.
But I think this is a rlaan starfortress.
Aera are no pyramids but they have those crossing with hexagonal openings and such.
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Post by klauss »

I think the one ingame isn't even a concept.
And... that's not aeran style.
Aeran ships and stations look more like a single thing than most other ships and stations. They should look like having made as a single piece, even if it is not so.

Oh... to whatever knows better about this subject, this wiki page really needs some filling. (as well as any other style guide page)
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Post by Oblivion »

@Megatherion: NOO! :wink: Rlaan starfortresses will NOT be pyramids again. I complained about the Rlaan station once. Rlaan stations should be organic. So nop. This definitely looks more Aeran. Especially with the pyramid concept. :D

@Klauss:
Wiki really does need filling. :wink:

@GALex

It's quite difficult to see the actual form...
:wink:
Though I like it. I have to agree with Klauss. It's not Aeran enough. A simple Pyramid with a few greebles showing at edges, and entrances would have been better.

The sphere also is not Aeran style. Aerans favor hard sharp edges, so no curves. The position of the docking portals in existing starfortesses has always irked me. And it would be better if future starfortresses would refrain from using docks that would hamper quick launch capability. ;)
Multiple docks at sides with heavy defenses would be better, methinks. Than a darn twisty hole that would mean inevitable collision. :P

This could still be useable though, given a radical change in texturing plans and some minor model changes. hmm... human factions?
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Post by klauss »

Oblivion wrote:Wiki really does need filling. :wink:
Does so.
Though I had a much more specific point in mind: Artists need those guidelines. If any wiki page should take priority, it's that one.
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Post by Oblivion »

Artists need those guidelines
Noted. I guess. I should forego any modelling and unessential whatnots for the moment and focus on working on that with JackS. VS is already way too far into development without establishing any kind of art guidelines.

I'll be ready with a framework and proposal soon. :wink: I can ask for the details, then approval, and then wiki-izing. A few concept art (the hasty kind :wink: ) might even be useful as a means to convey the meaning of the words to the modeller, even if concept ships will never be modelled, they can still serve as comparisons. :?

Okay. I'm still quite busy this week. Couldn't find enough spare time. Usually spend it napping or reading. :lol: I'm starting to get stressed again. Gad. Well. A few paperwork will not be that tiring. :D
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Post by Halleck »

Oblivion wrote:The sphere also is not Aeran style. Aerans favor hard sharp edges, so no curves.
This contradicts what I know about aeran style. jackS described aeran ships as "having the appearance of being carved out of a solid block" (or something akin to that). To me this says smooth lines and seamless transitions, not hard edges.
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Post by Oblivion »

Hi Halleck! :D
having the appearance of being carved out of a solid block
Yeah, I know. But consider the current Aeran ships. They are already accepted right. Only lacks logos (If Aerans would deign to place logos on their ships, human-style). Basing on those, I would say that curves are definitely a no-no in Aeran style.

I think seamless transitions mean no visible differentiation of ship sections, no large areas of greebles, a homegeneity of textures, etc. Not that it has to include be spheres or curves.

And what I eman by sharp edges is exactly that, thin bladelike edges. So their ships would look like exotic weapons, their stations a hybrid between mayan temples and a monolith.

Think aggressively industrial, yet clean, and hopelessly paranoid.

I would imagine their cities to be knifelike towers (with very few or nonexistent windows) surrounding the central pyramid-shaped communal mausoleum (or memorial, or whatever they call it), ringed by high walls and turrets against the jungle and its inhabitants and veiled by a shield, making interstellar docks necessarily separate.

But no spheres and gentle curves.

:wink: Well, that's just my interpretation. JackS?
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Post by Halleck »

What about the ariston (aelar)? Looks mighty curved to me.

Here's what jackS had to say on the matter (emphasis is mine):
jackS wrote:For extensions away from the body of the ship aerodynamics are to be completely ignored... The best example to glean from is the aelar, with its thick, solid, wedge-shaped hull extensions, all of which are used as places to put weapons. The curves on the 3 good models tend to be gentle, some of the places on your model are rather sharp.
and also for reference, from some time ago:
jackS wrote:Do use the 3 models we have for the fighters as inspiration - don't use the aera capships we have (noting that they're all scheduled for being rennovated)
jackS wrote:From the 3 models we do have, take away that the Aera ships, in contrast to the human models which are clearly built up out of parts, have an aura of "carved out of some grea singlet mass" (to wax perhaps too overly poetic) This is not to say that they actually were, but that the craftsman's aesthetic for Aera ships is somewhat different than that of the human designers
jackS wrote:
pontiac wrote: I will see what i can do to fit it more into this description ...

What about modular designs, everal parts per ship/unit?
See the various examples in this post.
...
it's not expressly an issue of modular design as much as the aesthetic of the exhibited modularity - more of modern unibody-construction versus a 1960s VW Beetle. Or perhaps more aptly, that all ships are composed of modular parts, but that one can have otherwise modular parts with a custom finish, or one can have something that was clearly built, so to speak, out of a snap-fit model kit. The Aera don't have scores of competing companies producing different models at the same time, just scores of designers competing to produce the next universally adopted model. Modularity in an Aera ship would be at the macro and micro scale - internal parts, and external subunits - but each piece should be blissfully ... whole - I'm sure I can come up with a better description if I sleep on it, but.. this is what stream-of-consciousness gets me
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Post by Oblivion »

:?: The Aelar?
http://vegastrike.sourceforge.net/galle ... efdc462661
:wink: honestly it doesn't look curved to me.
well, i don't mean to be too literal. But I'm talking about curves and spheres, not just a little beveling.

JackS:
all ships are composed of modular parts, but that one can have otherwise modular parts with a custom finish, or one can have something that was clearly built, so to speak, out of a snap-fit model kit.
I think that's what he meant by seamless transitions, and didn't mean deep curves.
with its thick, solid, wedge-shaped hull extensions, all of which are used as places to put weapons. The curves on the 3 good models tend to be gentle
.

that clinches it. wedge-like and the curves, if they exist at all, are gentle. So I think I was quite right in advocating sharp edges. :wink: . JackS, correct me If I'm wrong. :?
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Post by Oblivion »

:oops: okay. Sorry Halleck. :wink:

Turns out I was wrong with the sharp edges stuff.

But, :P you were wrong about the sphere too. :wink:

I misunderstood a some of the things we were arguing about. And hence veered off somewhere not quite where this discussion is supposed to go.

Official Decree #01AER JackS : :lol:
both you and Halleck seem to be correct modulo some diction choices in phrasing confusing each of you somewhat as to what the other is trying to say, as far as I can tell. The Aera certainly make use of curves (smooth, seamless joints, long, sleek, gentle slopes) but far less often make use of things that are inherently round, and never bulbous, or organic in aesthetic (as the Rlaan ships often evoke). They'd find a big sphere or hemisphere quite unlike in nature to their favored designs, but would round the corners and slope some edges and faces on a triangular prism used as a turret mount until only the mount face was flat and abrupt in it's joining with the rest of the ship.

The fighters are so small that it's difficult to try to see how to extrapolate some of the themes - on a model that small, there's not much in the way of visual cues distinguishing the sharp from the merely thin - which is not to say that clean, sharp cuts aren't present in Aera aesthetics, but they're to be more prominent in external edges, not the joints between pieces. I think when we've worked on some bigger ships, it can become clearer what some of those themes are (also, I'd primarily focus on the Nicander and Ariston in terms of existing examples - the Areus is a bit... different looking - in the end you work with the models you have, but no point in propagating things you'd like to see smoothed over, so to speak) There's a corvette prototype (Agis) in the content development forum that Major once worked on that's not bad - the Agasicles is, to be honest ... too round/smoothed/curvaceous (but it was better looking than the current low-poly model, so I decided I wouldn't complain for too long). The previous incarnation of the same proposal looked a bit better, but was lost in the artist's hard drive crash - not that it seems to be currently relevant as the artist looks to have wandered off.
:oops: sorry.
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Post by jackS »

Apologies to all for not posting something in this thread previously.
I've been a bit busy of late.

Please let me know if the comment of mine quoted above leads to any further confusion or otherwise lacks in sufficiency of response.
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