need help here

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Tarran
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need help here

Post by Tarran »

in following the tutorial (in how to) I make it up to make external (in wings), and then can't follow the rest of the tutorial.. the program (wings) isn't shifting over to gimp (or whatever its supposed to do).. gimp is my default drawing program.

needless to say, I'm growing a large selection of ships for VS, however they are all skinless.
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Post by Ryder P. Moses »

It doesn't automatically switch over to your image editor, man, it just saves an image file in the directory. Which you then open and paint over.
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woah

Post by Tarran »

ok.. let me see if I have this right (correct me if I am wrong someplace).. the render you paint is just eye candy.. a thing to look at so people can have an idea of what it is ingame.. ?

actually.. I'll just toss the rest of the quations I have about all this right here..

if I have models I wish to contribute to VS, where do you post them?
if I have concept art, but no model to go with it, is there a place to put that?
(if my above assumption is off) is it concidered kosh/ok to post skinless models.. ?
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Post by Ryder P. Moses »

?

I don't think VS uses a render at all. It exports a picture of the UV map you can use as a guide when making a skin, that's all.

If you have models and stuff, you post 'em here, though it seems JackS has a pretty specific idea of what he wants to go ingame. Can't hurt, though.

You can post skinless models but unless they're really in demand I don't know that anyone else is going to skin them for you. We can help you learn how to skin your own, though, certainly, and I'd like to see 'em.
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Post by Tarran »

woot.. I would love to learn how to skin them..

I would in no way mind working on specific units .. that need models and shtuff (as in submitting mine for them)
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shtuff and things

Post by Tarran »

say you've finished creating your model.. is there a way to clear out extra faces and such that are useless.. like for instance.. in the inside of my model, I'll end up with extra sections.. that don't really do anything .. they also mess up how my model unfolds..

(still in the process of learning wings)
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Post by chuck_starchaser »

Yes, you want to remove anything that isn't visible. They affect performance in two ways: Increasing poly count and increasing "overdraw". Overdraw refers to the number of times the video card redraws, or tries to redraw each pixel, on average, for rendering a scene. Overdraw is the more serious problem because most modern videocards are fill-limited with most engines except perhaps ID's... AFAIK there's nothing that removes them automatically; I go on a cleanup spree and get rid of all things unnecessary.
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Post by Tarran »

is it ok for models to be combined objects, versus a singular object? I know that I can skin combined objects as one unit.. however I don't know if VS has any paticular requirements as far as that goes.
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and another thing

Post by Tarran »

just as a side thing.. what is an LOD?
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Post by chuck_starchaser »

Yes you can can combine objects without attaching them, like welding vertices and all that. If you have a little box you want sticking out of a surface, just float a box where you want it. No need to use boolean operations for that.
An LOD is a Level of Detail. The top LOD is your fully detailed model. The next lower LOD would have one tenth as many polys, for example, and it would be shown at long distance.
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Post by Tarran »

how would I upload an image to a post? was going to show what I was fiddling around with and my first go at skinning something.. but don't seem to have that option
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Post by Ryder P. Moses »

Get a Photobucket account.
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cannibles peeling fruit

Post by Tarran »

ok.. so here is my first attempt at skinning.. the model is kewl.. the skin blows =)

Image

this is the Ravenclaw.. light hunter class vessel

the whole skinning thing is new to me .. previously I had been using playground (for those that remember what modeling in dos is like), and actually building my models
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Post by chuck_starchaser »

You got ahead of me now, I've yet to do a uv-mapping. That's a ship like I've never seen. Looks like a glider, yet a bit startrekkish.
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faces

Post by Tarran »

the values shown in the Wiki.. for max number of faces and so forth, for ship design, does that still hold true? or is there some leeway in size?
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Post by Ryder P. Moses »

They're old. You can fit more, if you want to.
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Post by Tarran »

I've been working on a new model.. and I have some questions I can't seem to find the answers to in the wiki guide..

- moving parts.. my new model has manuvering jets.. and the idea I had for them was something like harrier jumpjet.. however I can't find anything where I can do both moving parts and thruster type graphics that point in the same direction as the jet would be pointing at that moment..

- huds.. I've seen some explenations on doing huds.. but they aren't really clear on the method of creating your cockpit and how to set parts of the hud in other possitions than the ones you find in game (like if I want to put the power indicators to one side of the screen.. or indicators in different possitions).. also.. would anyone know if the elite hud works in the current cvs build?

- mauvering jet movement.. is there a way to incorporate the movements gained from manuvering jets (from the seperate keyset) into the natural movements of a ship.. I mean.. like a configuration you can give to a unit that will use both the normal movements and manuvering jet movement.. (at the same time)

also.. a question about Ogre.. will that change how models are done? or the limitations that a model must conform to?.. or is it soley for planetside graphics?.. if there are to be changes in how models are done.. can someone tell me the gist of those changes?
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Post by klauss »

About moving parts... I'm attempting that in the new model specification. It's not simple to get a general specification that can do all that specific stuff, so some things may not be possible in the end. But what you say is definitely a minimum target.

Maneuvering jets... I didn't get the idea of what you were saying... but the new model specification is also a lot more flexible with regard to maneuvering jets, so perhaps it will help.

And...
I wrote:...new model specification.
Yes, Ogre will change how models are done. Hopefully for the better.
It will be a tad more involved, yes, if you want to do such complex stuff... but at least it won't limit you as much as the current system, so in the end, I think, you won't mind the extra work.
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Post by Tarran »

I would not mind in the least. in fact.. learning it is fun

as for the jets.. I mean like this.. what I want on my model, is for the jets to move in sync with the movements of my ship (so like with forward thrust, you would see the nozzles face the direction (to a the limit of thier arc) and the puffs or fire of the jets as they engage.. the gist of the jets on my model are a lot like the VTOL jets on a harrier jump jet.
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Post by chuck_starchaser »

The jet "flames" are usually added by the devs when people submit ships. Probably you just want to keep moving parts as separate objects, and wait a little for Ogre integration. I'm not sure, but I think with the current system you'd have to make them into sub-units in order to animate them; which IMO is not worth the effort, considering we're changing to a new file format.
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Post by Tarran »

I'm going to go with waiting for the new system to come in.. I'm looking forward to it..
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Post by klauss »

That for each maneuvering jet?
That seems a little excessive, but you could do it. It's what I had in mind for main thrusters (be able to, for instance, have rotating thrusters). The limiting factor is, actually, the way you can specify arc limits: I'm thinking only two ways - a cone limit, and a axis limit (that is, you can turn X degrees max, around this axis alone/freely).
Since meneuvering jets are just like any other thruster in the specs I have right now, there's no difference in capabilities between them: they're thrusters. In fact, one thing I find interesting, is that you can make separate afterburners that only light up when you press the afterburner :D
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Post by chuck_starchaser »

That would be nice, maneuvering jets that light up when they should, base on angular accelerations.

Klauss, by the way, I'll make a generic shader for exhaust plumes of any kind. What we'll need for it, geometry-wise, is a billboard behind the nozzle. Ideally, the billboard would be re-oriented, I mean, rotated on the plane of the screen, so that ... uh... never mind. This is it: A fixed, camera-facing billboard in front of the nozzle, and a vector indicating the direction of the flame; I can re-orient the billboard myself in the vertex shader.
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Post by Tarran »

you mean like the Raptor fighter? (the newish one that can hover like a helicopter thrusters pointing to the ground, nose straight up and do some really nice manuvers)


as far as the jets.. I had a military version of mine in mind that would allow for faster stops, or like when you turned your bottom side towards something in a turn, less of a fishtail..(and less of a slide downward) I guess to me it wasn't enough to say that said craft had the ability to do so, but rather had something that went with it, that one could see .. like the physics behind the acts.. instead of just because.. (or rather this is the direction I've been moving towards thanks to folks like ryder and starchaser)
Do you hear, that whisper, calling unto you
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