ShoCkwaVes *slow learner class* making ships in VS

Thinking about improving the Artwork in Vega Strike, or making your own Mod? Submit your question and ideas in this forum.

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hellcatv
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Post by hellcatv »

you can actually have many textures---the engine does a pretty good job making that fast

the only annoyance is that the 3ds2xml converter will spit out like 20 xmesh files (one per texture0

then you have to call mesher myoutput.bfxm myfile.xmesh xba
20 times to get them all converted
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Post by klauss »

It's not the engine, it's the driver the one which will have a problem with many textures. With that poly count, you want to laverage every possible acceleration technique. The url I posted mentions a tool, created by NVidia and free, that does that: combine everything into a single texture. It even adjusts the uv coordinates of the mesh too.
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Post by klauss »

Of course, some textures have to be separate: normal maps and specular maps. The idea is to have a single color map.
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Cool

Post by ShoCkwaVe »

klauss wrote:The url I posted mentions a tool, created by NVidia and free, that does that:
Co0l thank you, I will look into that and give it a try.
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Post by MamiyaOtaru »

I once loaded a 100,000 poly model in VS. It was supposed to be a Coruscant cityscape. Untextured, and had holes in it (I imagine it wasn't meant to be viewed from straight above but more as a background kinda thing) Anyway, it ran OK (sorta) though it took a long time to load. That was before bfxm, so it might be quicker today.

Might be possible to get ridiculously high poly models in, but you're in trouble with more than one of them on screen at one (or I just need to upgrade)
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sONof A B*^%H I cant figure this out help me !!!

Post by ShoCkwaVe »

ok I am now officially PiSSeD!!

I Just cant figure out how you guys use the uv map to save
all the textures into 1 texture map or texture atlas :(

I have tried EVERYTHING...

1) downloaded that tool from NVidea FAILED
2) downloadded uvmapper FAILED
3) spent 6 hours assigning textures to faces using milkshape plugin
called texture Coordinate editor (Worked) and easy to use..
"BUT" when..you export it into wavefront obj it seems to lose
all transparency and no textures load in game at all!!
GARRRRRRRR !! :((

I did however replace most of all the effects sounds with starwars sound and ITS BADASS!!

heh, even got R2 having a hissy fit when you get shot
3 dif sounds hull damage sheild hit & big hull damage :)

well heres my newest ship an imperial shuttle heres a pic.
gee it sure is a cryin shame that I cant seem to get 1 daRn ship right waaaah!

as you can see there is no illumination map & for some ODD reason
the reflection is purple... sorta looks like a black light s shining on a
reflective crystal lol

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Last edited by ShoCkwaVe on Sun May 08, 2005 8:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by ack2000 »

lets start with package your using to model.
then we can tell you the best way to do it.

I use 3dsmax. I use 2 options: in max renter to texture. if not in max I use deep uv or uvmapper pro. I try to use deep uv very little, it's a resource hog and doesn't do the best at combining textures. Uv mapper can do a good job at uving the way you want to paint bmp it generates, generally use box mode.


I understand lightwave has a surface baker which is simualr to 3dsmax render to texture.
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Post by CubOfJudahsLion »

You could also:

- Try Wings3D (free) and the Xmesh export plugin. There's a Wiki guide for getting started. Wings has its own UV mapping tool.

- Although new APIs allow non-power of two sized textures, you better not risk it. Use square maps whose size = 2^n, where ^ means (to the power of) and n is an integer.

Not much, but hope it helps.
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Post by Halleck »

The ship is probably purple because of the ambient purple light in the galaxy (maybe a purple star?). You can control how shiny the spacecraft is by making a specularity map from the texture (basically convert the texture to greyscale, boost contrast, lower brightness, and fill in all the windows with bright white), convert the model to xmesh, add the line

Code: Select all

texture1="whateverthefilenameisPPL.png"
after where it says texture="whatever.png". Convert back to BFXM and you're good to go.
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hmmm

Post by ShoCkwaVe »

ack2000 wrote:lets start with package your using to model.
then we can tell you the best way to do it.

I use 3dsmax. I use 2 options: in max renter to texture. if not in max I use deep uv or uvmapper pro. I try to use deep uv very little, it's a resource hog and doesn't do the best at combining textures. Uv mapper can do a good job at uving the way you want to paint bmp it generates, generally use box mode.


I understand lightwave has a surface baker which is simualr to 3dsmax render to texture.
ok the problem is i dont have 6 years to learn 3ds max 6
I do have it and it apears to be way beyoNd my leage.

as far as the uvmapper if you are talking about the 1 from uvmapper.com
then Yes I have it but when i load in a obj model and choose box it sorts
a pretty atlas layout from all sides "but" I cant get them to show any textures that were already Assigned in the 3d software.

any 1 have the uvmapper pro serial or crack to enable export????

usually I select the groups & or faces and assign a texture per group
is that not the correct way?

I mostly use milkshap 3d as it is simple and works great "VerY" user friendly and supports many import/export formats
(( I love Milkshape 3D !! )) free and worth every pennY :lol:

as for wngs 3d

I have it BUT it does some serious memory/ & hung app freezeing
sometimes 9 out of 10 it slows my pc memory so bad I have to
Cold boot my pc .

I am using a dual p4 hyperthread cpu on a custom mobo
oerclocking @ 2.95 Ghz & using 256mb of ram and my Gcard is an ATI RADEON 9200 128 mb
In otherwords ((that should "never" happen!!)) :|

if my pc slows to a crawl to the point where the memory recouces
FREEZE as the app hangs and I watch
the mem usage climb to well over 200,000 that tells me the program is
best placed in the recycle bin where it BELONGS.

Any1 who suggests using wings 3d should be dragged out of his car and beaten severely with a baseball bat. :x
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you are very helpful to me thanks m8

Post by ShoCkwaVe »

Halleck wrote:The ship is probably purple because of the ambient purple light in the galaxy (maybe a purple star?). You can control how shiny the spacecraft is by making a specularity map from the texture (basically convert the texture to greyscale, boost contrast, lower brightness, and fill in all the windows with bright white), convert the model to xmesh, add the line

Code: Select all

texture1="whateverthefilenameisPPL.png"
after where it says texture="whatever.png". Convert back to BFXM and you're good to go.
firstly' you should be given the most helpful award in this forum
(seriously) thank you for all your help

ok will do.. but since I cant (YET) make 1 texture atlas for the entire model do I have to add a spec map for each texture? what if i am using 33 txtures? lol so I would have to add then 33 tags per texture?

Code: Select all

texture1="leftwingPPL.jpg"

Code: Select all

texture2="rightwingPPL.jpg"
maybe im doing something wrrong here hmm..

ok when you make your model do you guys only have 1 group for the entire model ?

what I mean is I am a regrouping my models
example: left wing, right wing, cocpit etc. they are all seperate
so I can asign a texture per group sometimes using the same textures.

heres a pic of my ships folder privateer/units so you can see my problem

Image
Last edited by ShoCkwaVe on Sun May 08, 2005 11:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Halleck »

ShoCkwaVe wrote:firstly' you should be given the most helpful award in this forum
(seriously) thank you for all your help
Heh, thanks man.
ShoCkwaVe wrote:ok will do.. but since I cant (YET) make 1 texture atlas for the entire model do I have to add a spec map for each texture? what if i am using 33 txtures? lol so I would have to add then 33 tags per texture?
I wouldn't know for multiple textures, all the models i've worked on have a single texture. However, naming them texture2 and texture3 will NOT work. I think texture2 is damage map and texture3 is glowmap (broken AFAIK).
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Post by ack2000 »

To my knowledge only 3 programs can combine multi textures to one with uvs in place. 3dsmax, lightwave and deep uv.

I understand you dont have time to learn a whole new package. So get one of the above the to complete the one image conversion. I would suggest max or lightwave.

I can tell you how to do max way: import, ok do a quick render to make sure texture loaded F10

If ok then Press 0 (zero) this will bring up render to texture.
Depending on how many surfaces you have uved will determine the size will go 2048 for practical purposes. In object bake section should be you ship (all the parts to it)Highly suggest that your ship be all one mesh.
In section output is where you want to click add and choose which maps to bake to.
I generally done use complete becuase this includes the lights/shadows. below this is the file format and size of map. when you have choosen click render. (leave all other settings default) This will take some time it may look like it locked up just be patient.

After it completed you outputs go to the modify tab. looks like a bend cylinder on the top right. you will see you object has auotmatic flatten uvs on it. click save and save the uv output. Now you can remove the automatic flatten uvs by clicking the trash can icon.
In modify list choose unwrap uvws. and then load the uvs you just saved.

Go to material edit (M) and load the new diffuse map and assign to your ship. Generally it doesnt look pretty. Now export your object.


I appologize I am not a very good teacher but I hope this helps. Maybe someone will write on for lightwave.

If you want deep uv let me know I will tell you how. But really need a machine with
some serious process and ram power to do it.
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ok lookin good

Post by ShoCkwaVe »

ok I now have this model looking sweeT

and you can use Milkshape3d for the entire model without any needing to go into wings whatsoever infact theres tons of useful plugins that work great I now realize.

though if you use milkshape to uv map & add textures note:

all textures are inverted so once you get the model looking
100 percent in milk just export .obj then flip all your textures
upside down :P

Milkshape is way better then wingss I promise!!

____________________________________________________________

ok Halleck, I am very close to finishing my 1st model here thanks
to all your help , I think I am finally catching on a lil and the
Imperial Shuttle looks SooO sweeT. :D

my only problem I am stuck at this point is..
the engines and specularity map.
So Now that I have the first set of turret coordinance perfect I did
as you said and used mesher to convert the bfxm into xmesh and it
spit 18 xmeshes out 1 for each texture

soooo now I assume I have to edit each of them but before I do
I need to know a few thngs

can I just add the same code texture1=impshuttlePPL.jpg
to all of the bfxms and make 1 plain high contrast impshuttlePPL.jpg ??
infact what if i just made the jpg all white?

here is what all the xmeshes look lke before altering

Code: Select all

<Mesh scale="1.000000" reverse="0" forcetexture="0" sharevert="0" polygonoffset="0.000000" blend="ONE ZERO"  texture=".\engines.PNG" >
<Material power="523.437500" cullface="1" reflect="1" lighting="1" usenormals="1">
	<Ambient Red="0.086275" Green="0.666667" Blue="0.980392" Alpha="1.000000"/>
	<Diffuse Red="0.623529" Green="0.819608" Blue="0.968628" Alpha="1.000000"/>
	<Emissive Red="0.000000" Green="0.000000" Blue="0.000000" Alpha="1.000000"/>
	<Specular Red="0.356863" Green="0.713726" Blue="0.992157" Alpha="1.000000"/>
</Material>
ok so now would I need to make it look exactly lke ths
per xmesh: imperial_shuttle.xmesh & 1_0.xmesh (threw) 17_0.xmesh ??

Code: Select all

<Mesh scale="1.000000" reverse="0" forcetexture="0" sharevert="0" polygonoffset="0.000000" blend="ONE ZERO"  texture=".\engines.PNG" > texture1="impshuttlePPL.png">
<Material power="523.437500" cullface="1" reflect="1" lighting="1" usenormals="1">
	<Ambient Red="0.086275" Green="0.666667" Blue="0.980392" Alpha="1.000000"/>
	<Diffuse Red="0.623529" Green="0.819608" Blue="0.968628" Alpha="1.000000"/>
	<Emissive Red="0.000000" Green="0.000000" Blue="0.000000" Alpha="1.000000"/>
	<Specular Red="0.356863" Green="0.713726" Blue="0.992157" Alpha="1.000000"/>
</Material>
and if that works how do I add them all back into bfxm?
do I just plop each 1 of them.. 1 at a time over the mesher.exe
then type:

mesher imperial_shuttle.xmesh imperial_shuttle.bfxm xbc ???

hmm I noticed none of the ships in privateer/units have any spec maps
unless I am mistaken .. wonder how whoever made the mod did that?

next engines : I want to make a light blue lluminaating glow anim for
these engines for this ship seeing as the plain thrust1.ani just does'nt
look right for an Imperial shuttle. so looking at the file located in
C:\Program Files\Vegastrike\Privateer\animations\thrust1.ani
what are the first two lines for that looks like this..
-10 10 <----------------
18 .02 <----------------
thrust0000.png
thrust0001.png
thrust0002.png
thrust0003.png
etc

anyways thanks again & ill wait on some of these answers before i continue any further.

[quote][/quote]
Last edited by ShoCkwaVe on Sun May 08, 2005 7:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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woah thanks m8

Post by ShoCkwaVe »

ack2000 wrote: I appologize I am not a very good teacher but I hope this helps. Maybe someone will write on for lightwave.

If you want deep uv let me know I will tell you how. But really need a machine with
some serious process and ram power to do it.
hey no need to apologise for trying to teach an under achiever, heh
I appriciate any help from any1 when it comees to this great game :)
its just 3dsmax is an amazing & complicated piece of software to me
but I will def give all that a try thank you :)

hey what is backburner? **shrug**
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Post by smbarbour »

On behalf of all of the VegaStrike users, please edit your post to remove the SN to Milkshape. We need to prevent all illegal activity from occurring on the forums. We do not want to have legal issues stopping the project. Thank you.
I've stopped playing. I'm waiting for a new release.

I've kicked the MMO habit for now, but if I maintain enough money for an EVE-Online subscription, I'll be gone again.
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fine

Post by ShoCkwaVe »

I yanked the key & apologise I am a Rebel @ heart & dont want anything bad happening to our game

& I was wrong about it being free after Re- looking into it.
note: I never pay for anythng eheheheh >:)
Last edited by ShoCkwaVe on Sun May 08, 2005 9:03 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by ack2000 »

direct from the website:

MilkShape 3D is shareware. This means that we have made the software available to you for free evaluation. The trial period is 30 days. After 30 days, if you decide to keep the software, you should register your copy with us for a small fee, otherwise all saving functions will be disabled.


The cost USD 34.01
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Post by Halleck »

Shockwave, please respect other users- we're all in the same boat here, and all want to volunteer our time to help out with some aspect of VS or its mods.

As for the xmesh re-importing... I'm not sure, but what you proposed sounds right. Give it a try. Although, there is one thing you need to change:
upon re-converting to bfxm, run mesher the first time with the paramater xbc, and after that, run with the parameter xba. This tells it to append the xmesh to the bfxm file instead of overwriting it.

EDIT: Image
NICE!!!!!
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ok almost done with my first ship

Post by ShoCkwaVe »

ok almost done with my first ship :D sorry to the website admin
for spamming artwork with this slow learner post but it was well worth
aking for help for me :)

as soon as I can make a custom thrust glow and replace it with the norm ani and make the specularity map work

I spose I can pack it all up in a .rar or .zip & post it so you can
try it out for a spin :)

** though** the thruster.wav and some of the replaced stawars type
wav weapons sound effects I added makes all the difference in the world

maybe I should pack those up 2 :D

so far the entire imperial_shuttle ship folder is uncompressed @
4.73 mb wooPs! must be all those textures, heh
runnin a wee 2 large in size for 1 ship considering the perry station
is @ 3.24 mb :\

**Ruuh roW !** I still have an entire starwars
fleet to make hmm I better figue out how to make 1 or2 texture
maps ehehehe.
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Post by BradMick »

yeah, i was going to say...you really need to condense that whole mesh down to one UV map, 2 at the most...i'd really go for one though. all those maps....geez, yeah. craziness. model looks pretty good. definately want it down to one map though. i'd recommend a single 1024 square, usually what i shoot for anyway.

p.s.

if anyone wants to learn stuff about LW, ask me. thats my preferred package of choice. i can teach you how to model, UV map...etc...etc. just drop me a line and i'll see what i can do for you.
LightWave nerd extrodanaire...

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Post by strangelet »

go look into cinema 4d. its about halfway between milkshape and 3dsmax in ease of use, exports .obj correctly and is a damn sight more logical.

also has "bodypaint" tex plugin. youll need to get that seperately

this is the best tool ever for UVing stuff. makes it like no work. need to make 5 objects' textures conform to a single map? no problems. then you port to wings, reassign the texture (yep, just one) and export as a vs ship. ez pz.

as far as 3dsmax being out of your league, sorry man but if you want to mod games you're gonna have to explore the world of "difficult" sooner or later.

it helps to have goals to drive your self-education about 3d software, and you already have a superb goal - making a vs ship. simply learn bit by bit what you need to know to get a simple model into VS and you'll quickly scale the learning curve.
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Post by Halleck »

He already got two star wars ships into VS. :wink:

I'm not sure if he modelled them himself, though.
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neat thanks

Post by ShoCkwaVe »

strangelet thanks ill cheeck cinema 4d out and also bodypaint

*I wish some1 would make an all in 1 ship modeler for vs*
so one would'nt have to go thrrew 30 dif things to get a ship in.

something liike milkshape3d / texturizer / csv tool with a plugin to locate coordinances for engines & mounts ** all in one **

that would make my lil new found hobby a lil easier


and Halleck, II already told you most of the models I am dong
are off the net is that such a bad thing?

I can make nice looking models but if I see 1 that looks great
whats the point in making my own ?

I have been making 3d models for 4 years contributing mostly to
scorched3d if you would like to see soe of my customs join their
forums I have many posts there or check out shockmod v2.1 :) .

http://www.scorched3d.co.uk

ok noww answer me this..

I am making steps in trying to make a ship purchasable
I atempted to make my own faction called Imperial so the ship couldd
be purchassable under the imperial catagory like confed milspec

and all hell broke loose"!!

merchants killing merchants pirates killing pirates...
ALL OUT MADNESS all I did was create a faction by adding these tags
in the factions.xml

Code: Select all

	<Faction name="imperial" logoRGB="implogo.png" secLogoRGB="implogo.png" contraband="contraband" sparkred="0" sparkgreen="0" sparkblue="1">
		<stats name="privateer" relation=".2"/>
		<stats name="confed" relation="1"/>
		<stats name="imperial" relation="1"/>
		<stats name="kilrathi" relation="-1"/>
		<stats name="nephilim" relation=".2"/>
		<stats name="merchant" relation="1"/>
		<stats name="retro" relation="-1"/>
		<stats name="pirates" relation="-1"/>
		<stats name="hunter" relation=".3"/>
		<stats name="militia" relation="1"/>
		<stats name="unknown" relation="-1"/>
		<stats name="landreich" relation=".7"/>
		<stats name="border_worlds" relation="1"/>
		<stats name="firekkan" relation="1"/>
		<stats name="AWACS" relation="1"/>
		<Explosion name="explosion_orange.ani"/>
		<CommAnimation sex="0">
			<MoodAnimation name="com_confed_male_01.ani"/>
		</CommAnimation>
		<CommAnimation sex="0">
			<MoodAnimation name="com_confed_male_02.ani"/>
		</CommAnimation>
		<CommAnimation sex="1">
			<MoodAnimation name="com_confed_female.ani"/>
		</CommAnimation>
		<ShipModifier name="imperial_shuttle.blank" relation=".8"/>
		<ShipModifier name="stiletto.blank" relation=".8"/>
		<ShipModifier name="stiletto" relation=".8"/>
		<ShipModifier name="broadsword.blank" relation=".8"/>
		<ShipModifier name="broadsword" relation=".8"/>
		<ShipModifier name="gladius.blank" relation=".2"/>
		<ShipModifier name="gladius" relation=".2"/>
		<ShipModifier name="dralthi.blank" relation="-.95"/>
		<ShipModifier name="dralthi" relation="-.95"/>
		<ShipModifier name="gothri.blank" relation="-.95"/>
		<ShipModifier name="gothri" relation="-.95"/>
		<ShipModifier name="talon.blank" relation="-.5"/>
		<ShipModifier name="talon" relation="-.5"/>
</Faction>
eh what did I do wrong?

I also added this tag to master_part_list.csv just to see iif I could see
th ship purchasable in the merchants catagory at the purchase window
did'nt wwork either.

Code: Select all

		<Category file="starships/Merchant/Light">
			<Cargo file="llama.blank" price="180000" quantity="1" mass="1000" volume="20000" description="What can be said of a llama, save for that one is rather less suited to carrying than a mule and not too adept at pulling a plowshare." />
			<Cargo file="dodo.blank" price="7500" quantity="1" mass="1096" volume="22000" description="As a cargo tug, quite successful - as a piece of art, quite ugly." />
			<Cargo file="imperial_shuttle.blank" price="400000" quantity="1" mass="1000" volume="20000" description="The Imperial shuttle is the latest technology available in shuttles made by the most reputable ship contractors Sienar Fleet Systems. Expensive, but well worth the *SFS* seal of Superiority." />
</Category>
eh what did I do wrong?
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Multiple textures

Post by klauss »

So you know, texture1=specmap, texture2=damagemap, texture3=glowmap.

In the previous versions (binary release 0.4.3, older cvs), whenever you have environment mapping, specmaps are disabled. You couldn't have both at the same time.

I think hellcat already uploaded a patch to the cvs so you can have both: specmap and envmap. There's also another patch coming soon fixing glowmaps.

So feel free to use them. Just check the cvs before trying them.
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