My HUD Redesign

Thinking about improving the Artwork in Vega Strike, or making your own Mod? Submit your question and ideas in this forum.

Moderator: pyramid

Postby Guest » Fri Feb 04, 2005 2:40 pm

I updated the stylesheet. Maybe wget will work better, now?
Also, you could always get on a Windows computer and select "save website to harddisk" or something.
Guest
 

Share On:

Share on Facebook Facebook Share on Twitter Twitter Share on Digg Digg

Postby Guest » Sat Apr 16, 2005 5:54 pm

I really love those HUDS, great work !! I liked the first one better and i would
go for another color thnt green, still it's exactly the direction it should go. The graphics
of vegastrike are awesome, but the HUD has quite a retarded look, imo.

I stumbled across this game just some days ago and i'm really hooked. It's awesome.
So far i just reworked the HUD a little bit, changed the energy bars and some colors
and i'm happy to play around like this. But having more possibilities to customize the
HUD and a better, more eyecandy and functionality like opening and closing the
different panes in game, HUD to start with would improve the game a LOT. I hope
some work on this will make it into the next versions.

Just some 2cent from another newby....
Guest
 

Postby klauss » Mon Apr 18, 2005 10:28 am

Sorry if I'm a little out of context, but this thread got just too big to read through it all, mostly since I'm itching to say something: I like the idea of (optional, hideable and nonobtrusive) computer-like controls, like menus or tabs. One would think any modern ship would have an interface flexible enough to give any command, not just a bunch of buttons which is what can be modelled with hotkeys.

Anyway, I have to agree with Charleig in that it is too big. The current VS HUD is quite good, in that it shows most of what's needed. I like the style, however. Perhaps it could be mixed: this style to the old HUD layout. All that has to be added is:

1) A velocity vector indicator - very important since inertial flight means you not always move forward.
2) An indicator of flight mode (combat vs navigation - that's missing)
3) Keyboard speed input, or at least quick settings - It's time consuming trying to set, in navigation mode, a speed of 10.000.

And, altough it's not HUD design, the HUD should be designed to allow:

4) Some kind of autopilot controls (perhaps through the tabs or menus), but not in the SPEC or insystem jump way, but something that will guide your ship automatically in inherently difficult operations, like activating SPEC towards a very distant target (it's too difficult to aim correctly, and you're forced to make constant course corrections - quite realistic, but sometimes too realistic), or docking in some bases where you need to get inside, or going to the opposite side of a planet... etc. Basically, the HUD should provide the interface to the propper .py module. Just an idea.

Perhaps the solution is to allow a .py module to create/modify gauges, and create some custom gagues for that matter, without retiring the XML interface. In fact, the XML could define (or not, optionally) the .py module to use. For instance, for the autopilot thingie, the .py would have to plot a course and basically act as temporary AI, but could create "gauges" to show the planned course in 3D (why not, so you know what the autopiot is trying to do). Basically, the .py would create GUI elements on demand. One could model any kind of control this way (although the most efficient way would be to have the propper gauge hardcoded in C++, but if you don't, you can make do anyway). Also, since the XML defines which module to use, some ships would have more modern HUDS with more functionality while order ships wouldn't have other things (autopilot comes to mind).
User avatar
klauss
Elite
Elite
 
Posts: 7243
Topics: 55
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2005 7:40 am
Location: LS87, Buenos Aires, República Argentina

Postby Anax » Tue May 03, 2005 10:22 am

Great looking HUD, but i have one major gripe

This is a gripe i've posted on before but it may not have been very clear, so this time i have pictures :)

Image

This is the current display for shields. Now, this does not map cognitively. Left-right does not naturally compute in the brain as back/front/left/right. To solve this you have used labels.

This may not seem like a problem, but when you're in the heat of battle you want to know your shield levels at-a-glance. It really isnt something you should have to work out. You especially should not need to look directly at the icons below the bars to figure out which is which. Basically, if you need to use labels, it's broken. Trust me on this - i've spent 4 years at uni studying interface design and data representations.

Now, compare the above image to something like this (excuse the poor graphics - proof of concept via mspaint):

Image

This DIRECTLY maps. You can tell at-a-glance what your rear shield levels are, and labels aren't even needed. This is a textbook example of how you should map this type of data graphically.

Something as simple as shields having front/rear/left/right has a really easy translation to a gui. we should use it when we can - it will make things that much easier and effective, which is especially important for something so important like not-getting-blown-up :p

Again, otherwise a nice looking HUD :)[/img]
Anax
Bounty Hunter
Bounty Hunter
 
Posts: 243
Topics: 12
Joined: Mon May 05, 2003 12:16 am
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Postby Shark » Wed Jun 15, 2005 2:43 am

I would like to respond to some of the issues that people have raised regarding my HUD redesign.

Size
****
Yes it's too big. I designed it for 1024x768 resolution. I should have designed two versions for 800x600 and 1600x1200 instead.
I should have made more use of transparency for some of the minor interface items (e.g. the stuff that's not in a VDU, but is just floating there).

Regarding the Shield Indicator
*************************
Thanks for clarifying your comment!
The particular image you referenced is meant to represent the amount of power being diverted to each of the shield emitters, not shield strength.
There already is an indicator showing shield strength, and it works in the way you described (the one with the yellow triangle in the middle). However, I thought bar graphs would be better at representing power distribution.
BTW, i like the image you made for the shield. Mind if I use it?

All the little triangles
*****************
They're meant to represent your wingmen (on the left) and an enemy/targeted flight group (on the right).
User avatar
Shark
Confed Special Operative
Confed Special Operative
 
Posts: 360
Topics: 33
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2004 2:34 am

Postby Shark » Wed Jun 15, 2005 2:55 am

strangelet wrote:the MFD's in vegastrike actually do have alot of the functionality you're talking about. there's a key to switch them between damage readouts, weapons or navigational/target data...

also there is a minicam view just as you requested, a very flexible one able to view targets and locations or yourself...

Sorry for the double post.

I think it would be better to get rid of the others and just keep the minicam. However, I would convert it to greyscale and then colorize it to the color of the HUD.

On a side note, I started playing IWar2 recently, and it comes with all the features I want...
User avatar
Shark
Confed Special Operative
Confed Special Operative
 
Posts: 360
Topics: 33
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2004 2:34 am

Postby Anax » Wed Jun 15, 2005 7:19 pm

Shark wrote:BTW, i like the image you made for the shield. Mind if I use it?


Uh, you're kidding right? i just knocked it up in ms paint! if you want yeah sure. might be an idea to put something in the middle - it's a waste of space in there (hull damage etc. What would be really cool is if you could somehow use this middle part to show the power levels, so it's all in one place then. just an idea.

In anycase, my point still stands, with essentially the same at-a-glance arguments: the arrow system for power levels is still a little broken. What you need is something that shows levels whilst still maintaining the "circle" type arrangement. a basic example would be the power bars arranged like the shield indicator, but that would be a waste of space, though the theory could potentially be worked with:

Image

My point is, somehow you gotta lose those arrows :p

Another problem with using bars to show power levels is that you might wanna show what the max power level is. i.e. if it's half full we should be able to clearly see that it's half full. to know this, we need to see what completely full means.

Hope this comes across as constructive and not too critical, coz otherwise it looks great. it's just a bug bear of mine.
Anax
Bounty Hunter
Bounty Hunter
 
Posts: 243
Topics: 12
Joined: Mon May 05, 2003 12:16 am
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Postby chuck_starchaser » Wed Jun 15, 2005 8:24 pm

Something I don't understand in the VS HUD's, new or old, is whether up represents up or forward, and whether down means down or rear. I'm in a permanent, almost resigned, state of confusion about this, as I was when I played Privateer 1. Privateer 2 was a breath of fresh air in this respect, with a 3D perspective representation of your ship and clearly identifiable left, right, forward, rear, top and bottom shields. But then again, in VS one finds "dual" and "quad" shields mentioned in the upgrades, neither of which I'm able to visualize...
User avatar
chuck_starchaser
Elite
Elite
 
Posts: 8014
Topics: 195
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2003 9:03 pm
Location: Montreal

Postby Anax » Fri Jun 17, 2005 8:14 am

placing a pic of the ship in the middle of the shield indicator usually solves this. eg in the xwing series, you have a top-down pick of the ship, clearly indicating that the upper shield indicator is the front. etc.
Anax
Bounty Hunter
Bounty Hunter
 
Posts: 243
Topics: 12
Joined: Mon May 05, 2003 12:16 am
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Postby Shark » Thu Dec 08, 2005 7:21 pm

I updated the first HUD. The code has been simplified, and I've fixed a few bugs.
Here's the link:
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Quadran ... strike.htm
User avatar
Shark
Confed Special Operative
Confed Special Operative
 
Posts: 360
Topics: 33
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2004 2:34 am

Postby hellcatv » Fri Dec 09, 2005 12:45 am

that is a really nice hud---with the advent of having something like CeGUI in Ogre something like this will become possible by the time we roll in the ogre code klauss has been operating with... neat, eh?
Vega Strike Lead Developer
http://vegastrike.sourceforge.net/
User avatar
hellcatv
Developer
Developer
 
Posts: 3980
Topics: 86
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 9:53 pm
Location: Stanford, CA

Postby chuck_starchaser » Fri Dec 09, 2005 2:54 am

That is awsome! I love the small font, the uniformity of style, and the subdued monochrome tint, which avoids interfering with the outside view.
Functionally it seems thorough and well thought out. Trying it IG would be the final test.

I've got a nagging feeling though. I fear it might prove to be a bit "too much", in terms of functionality. Info overload? The tabbed pages help, but just knowing that there's additional info under those tabs... Makes me think back to the Masters of Orion II / Masters of Orion III case, where they added so much information, the latter game felt like work, more so than play. I don't have anything specific to criticize, though, unfortunately; just this nagging feeling, so I'd thought I throw in a cautionary paragraph...

But it really looks beautiful.
User avatar
chuck_starchaser
Elite
Elite
 
Posts: 8014
Topics: 195
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2003 9:03 pm
Location: Montreal

Postby Ryder P. Moses » Fri Dec 09, 2005 2:57 am

Well, the nice thing about a HUD display is that you don't have to include or look at all of that stuff.
Ryder P. Moses
Daredevil Venturer
Daredevil Venturer
 
Posts: 593
Topics: 15
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2005 8:59 pm

Postby zaydana » Fri Dec 09, 2005 6:38 am

chuck: well, i think theres an easy solution to that problem. Do what X3 does - make it so right clicking (or some other key/button) switches between using the mouse as a pointer for the HUD interface, and as a joystick type device. This way, the HUD is only there when you want it to be. A single click will switch between HUD mode and flight mode. You could then do stuff like look through the HUD while you are flying somewhere in spec.
User avatar
zaydana
Site Administrator
Site Administrator
 
Posts: 478
Topics: 58
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 3:05 am
Location: Perth, Western Australia

Postby chuck_starchaser » Fri Dec 09, 2005 6:55 am

Yes, I think that'd do the trick for me, at least to a good extent. What I would consider ideal, though, would be special HUD modes: One for spec flight, one for sublight flight, one for docking, another for communicating, another for setting up the autopilot, a trade mode, a combat mode, and so on. Better yet if they were switched automatically depending on your commands and the general context. Good flight sims have multiple HUD modes. Landing mode, for example, adds vertical lines that shift to show you what direction to turn in order to get onto the ideal landing path, and has icons to give you feedback on the correctness of your vertical speed, engine power setting and attitude. These aids are crucial to landing, but would clutter the view when not.
User avatar
chuck_starchaser
Elite
Elite
 
Posts: 8014
Topics: 195
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2003 9:03 pm
Location: Montreal

Postby hurleybird » Sat Dec 10, 2005 12:26 pm

Ok, this HUD design is already very complicated, but I like the amount of options that you have, and the interface is very intuitive.

However, I'm just going to throw out a few more ideas that would make it even more complicated, but would hopefully improve gameplay.

Heres some more ideas:

1. A shield tab where you can direct the streangth of your sheilds, and your sheild orientation. Of course, changing your sheilds would be cumbersome to do in combat from the hud itself. Therefore, I suggest another intuitive way to change sheild orientation. Take a cheap spare joystick, and stick it on your left hand side. Moving the joystick would change the sheild orientation while one button on that juystick would 'set' the sheild orientation. Brilliant.

2. Weapon/engine(afterburner) heat, like in the mech warrior games. After a certain degree of heat is reached, the overheating system shuts down until the heat decreases. Coolant upgrades and smart choice of weapon upgrades would factor against heat. This is more of a general suggestion, but would involve changes to the HUD.

3. An advanced tab that can control the inner workings and safety protocols of the ship. This tab would require aftermarket (illegal?) equipment to be accesable. Basically you could set things like speed cap, turning cap, weapon overheat shutdown settings, as well as disabling some functions of the ship altogether (for stealth reasons). This also brings a more general point to in regard to the turning cap. Increasing the turning thrust value would have to have reprussions. On large ships, it could threaten the structural integrity of the ship (though maybe there would be other upgrades to counter act that. On fighters, it would put the user in danger pulling high G's. With the ogre implementation, perhaps a system could be put in place to represent this system. Things like motion blure, double vision, and eventually, fading vision (passing out) as visual cues of the pilots health. Now that would be cool, and something that no other space sim has attempted before.
hurleybird
Elite
Elite
 
Posts: 1671
Topics: 64
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 5:46 pm
Location: Earth, Sol system.

Postby loki1950 » Sat Dec 10, 2005 3:52 pm

space sims no maybe but most flight sims have for a long time now they usualy use POV contracting and blackout.

Enjoy the Choice :)
User avatar
loki1950
The Shepherd
 
Posts: 5723
Topics: 51
Joined: Fri May 13, 2005 1:37 pm
Location: Ottawa

Postby hurleybird » Sat Dec 10, 2005 4:22 pm

As not being a flight sim jockey I had no idea. Awesome!
hurleybird
Elite
Elite
 
Posts: 1671
Topics: 64
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 5:46 pm
Location: Earth, Sol system.

Postby Silverain » Sun Dec 11, 2005 4:24 pm

Is it necessary to have such advanced features accessed via HUD display?

Where I'm coming from is thinking about an I-War style 'sub-interface', from which you would do such things as shield configuration, delineate order of repairs (weaps, shields, engines, scanners, power plant or power plant, engines, shields, scanners, weaps) etc.

Being advanced items, it would be natural to take your viewpoint away from your HUD/forward view (and such a panel design suits multi-role cap ships with an engineering station, weaps station, repair station etc).
THOUGHT CRIME! [points finger] THOUGHT CRIME!
User avatar
Silverain
Expert Mercenary
Expert Mercenary
 
Posts: 984
Topics: 26
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2003 10:35 pm
Location: Brisbane, Land of Oz

Postby Shark » Sat Apr 08, 2006 8:18 am

I'm digging up old threads... but anyway.
hurleybird wrote:1. A shield tab where you can direct the streangth of your sheilds, and your sheild orientation. Of course, changing your sheilds would be cumbersome to do in combat from the hud itself. Therefore, I suggest another intuitive way to change sheild orientation. Take a cheap spare joystick, and stick it on your left hand side. Moving the joystick would change the sheild orientation while one button on that juystick would 'set' the sheild orientation. Brilliant.

This is already featured in my current designs.
hurleybird wrote:2. Weapon/engine(afterburner) heat, like in the mech warrior games. After a certain degree of heat is reached, the overheating system shuts down until the heat decreases. Coolant upgrades and smart choice of weapon upgrades would factor against heat. This is more of a general suggestion, but would involve changes to the HUD.

Well, if VS were changed to support overheating, then I'd modify my design to accomodate these changes.
hurleybird wrote:3. An advanced tab that can control the inner workings and safety protocols of the ship. This tab would require aftermarket (illegal?) equipment to be accesable.

Good idea.
chuck_starchaser wrote:I've got a nagging feeling though. I fear it might prove to be a bit "too much", in terms of functionality. Info overload?

I have trouble remembering the key bindings for every game I play, so it helps to have everything on-screen. Anyway, the interface is meant to be configurable, so that you can display as much or as little information as you want.
Silverain wrote:Is it necessary to have such advanced features accessed via HUD display?

Where I'm coming from is thinking about an I-War style 'sub-interface', from which you would do such things as shield configuration, delineate order of repairs (weaps, shields, engines, scanners, power plant or power plant, engines, shields, scanners, weaps) etc.

Well, I like having everything on one page. But that would be OK, too.
User avatar
Shark
Confed Special Operative
Confed Special Operative
 
Posts: 360
Topics: 33
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2004 2:34 am

Postby Ryder P. Moses » Sat Apr 08, 2006 3:27 pm

Ew. No I-Wars please, that bloody thing was a terror to navigate. Nothing like having to leave your command interface in the middle of a firefight to set some new coordinates or fix your engines. I think I'm remembering it as worse than it was, but still.

Your interfaces no longer seem to be downloading, BTW.
Ryder P. Moses
Daredevil Venturer
Daredevil Venturer
 
Posts: 593
Topics: 15
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2005 8:59 pm

Postby charlieg » Sat Apr 08, 2006 4:14 pm

Please post screenshost here for the, er, lazy casual observers.
User avatar
charlieg
Elite Mercenary
Elite Mercenary
 
Posts: 1328
Topics: 56
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2003 4:51 pm
Location: Manchester, UK

Postby Shark » Sun Apr 09, 2006 9:14 am

Oops. The link has changed.

New link:
http://www.geocities.com/mikehorvath.geo/vegastrike.htm
User avatar
Shark
Confed Special Operative
Confed Special Operative
 
Posts: 360
Topics: 33
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2004 2:34 am

Postby Ryder P. Moses » Sun Apr 09, 2006 3:01 pm

I like the minimizing windows in a1.1, how they let the player choose whatever compromise between window space and important information they like, but the title bars would still be kinda distracting. Maybe align them vertically along the very side of the screen?

I keep getting javascript errors in b1, so I can't really get such a good look at it, but I kinda prefer the text-dominant interface of the first one. The icons just take up too much space and don't add anything to the look.
Ryder P. Moses
Daredevil Venturer
Daredevil Venturer
 
Posts: 593
Topics: 15
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2005 8:59 pm

Postby Shark » Mon Apr 10, 2006 8:06 am

Ryder P. Moses wrote:I keep getting javascript errors in b1, so I can't really get such a good look at it, but I kinda prefer the text-dominant interface of the first one. The icons just take up too much space and don't add anything to the look.

The second one has the same 'minimizing' features as the first. Also, what errors are you receiving? Which browser are you using?
User avatar
Shark
Confed Special Operative
Confed Special Operative
 
Posts: 360
Topics: 33
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2004 2:34 am


PreviousNext

Return to Content Vetting

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests

cron