Ox model update

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Ox model update

Postby Gungnir » Wed Jan 25, 2012 12:44 am

Klauss asked me to work on LODs for the Ox, and upon downloading it from the masters repo, I found quite a bit of inefficiency in the mesh... Almost like someone tried to make LODs at some point before, but they were messed up. I have that all cleaned up now; dropped the polycount from ~10,000 to a hair under 7,600. If there are no objections, I think I'll try getting all the pieces merged properly for future shaders (CineMut/Uber) before I start on LODs.

A quick question: is the entire thing supposed to be flat-shaded? With smooth shading, it'll look a lot better (IMO) and run faster, even with more detail, but I'm not sure it would fit the art style. For reference, the current model is ~35,000 verts flat-shaded, I'd estimate ~12,000 smooth.
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segfault wrote:if I was actually in space I'd totally be throwing on autopilot and relaxing in the back during the trip, sipping space wine and listening (rlaan?) jazz.


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Re: Ox model update

Postby klauss » Wed Jan 25, 2012 10:04 am

I think at least the containers are supposed to be flat. No clue about the rest
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Re: Ox model update

Postby Gungnir » Mon Jan 30, 2012 1:27 am

Picture update time!

This is what's done right now (cleanup and welding):
Image

The engines were a pain (though a lot easier once I figured out a good method), the rest is coming along quite nicely. If I have time, I might get it finished tomorrow or the day after. Once that's all done, it'll be time to make some LODs (and probably UV unwrap; I doubt the current one survived this process).
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segfault wrote:if I was actually in space I'd totally be throwing on autopilot and relaxing in the back during the trip, sipping space wine and listening (rlaan?) jazz.


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Re: Ox model update

Postby klauss » Mon Jan 30, 2012 8:06 am

Coming along nicely. 9k faces? after welding?
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Re: Ox model update

Postby Gungnir » Mon Jan 30, 2012 6:47 pm

Another update.

Pic:
Image

Only three welds left, but they are definitely not going to be fun.

klauss wrote:Coming along nicely. 9k faces? after welding?


Yeah, a little higher than I'd like, but acceptable. The thing that really concerns me is the >17,000 verts, but this'll be LOD1 or LOD0, so we can afford to splurge a bit I suppose.

EDIT:
Another update:

Image

Merging/cleaning is DONE. At least, it is as far as I can tell. On to LODs!
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segfault wrote:if I was actually in space I'd totally be throwing on autopilot and relaxing in the back during the trip, sipping space wine and listening (rlaan?) jazz.


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Re: Ox model update

Postby klauss » Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:27 pm

A hint: LODs can do without the welding. It will save you lots of tris, and the welding is invisible at a distance anyways.
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Re: Ox model update

Postby Dawe » Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:16 pm

As a long time lurker i gotta say i love it when new ship rendering pics come up, even if it's a remake!
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Re: Ox model update

Postby TBeholder » Tue Jan 31, 2012 7:47 pm

Cool.
Setting-wise: drive and cabin pods geometry could be identical except parts that actually differs - technologically speaking.
Game-wise: speaking of welding, you may want to consider that those side cargo pods are prime candidates for turning into subunits with separate models - about the moment worst bugs of subunit system will be fixed.
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Re: Ox model update

Postby Gungnir » Wed Feb 01, 2012 12:48 am

TBeholder wrote:Setting-wise: drive and cabin pods geometry could be identical except parts that actually differs - technologically speaking.


Don't really understand what you mean here. I'm not remodeling, if anything I might add a few details for a new LOD0.

TBeholder wrote:Game-wise: speaking of welding, you may want to consider that those side cargo pods are prime candidates for turning into subunits with separate models - about the moment worst bugs of subunit system will be fixed.


Hmm, you have a valid point... I think I'll upload two versions when I'm done, one with welded cargo containers, one without. That way we have both is for some reason we need them.

Not a big loss if we don't use the welded version; the containers were the easiest thing to merge...

Dawe wrote:As a long time lurker i gotta say i love it when new ship rendering pics come up, even if it's a remake!


Thanks, there might be a high-detail model for the top LOD coming soon, but that'll be after I get the other LODs done since those are needed much more.

klauss wrote:A hint: LODs can do without the welding. It will save you lots of tris, and the welding is invisible at a distance anyways.


Thanks for the hint, that'll make life a lot easier for me.


Didn't get anything done today on the LODs because school ran really late... Maybe later tonight/tomorrow morning.
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segfault wrote:if I was actually in space I'd totally be throwing on autopilot and relaxing in the back during the trip, sipping space wine and listening (rlaan?) jazz.


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Re: Ox model update

Postby Gungnir » Sat Feb 04, 2012 8:49 pm

Short update.

LODs are delayed for an indefinite amount of time. Mesa or something broke and Blender is rendered unusable (it also broke KDE... ugh).

Image

I might try the version of Mesa in the testing repos, but those never work as well as stable and break constantly, so no promises there.
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segfault wrote:if I was actually in space I'd totally be throwing on autopilot and relaxing in the back during the trip, sipping space wine and listening (rlaan?) jazz.


Rig: i5 2500k @ 5ghz, 2x OCZ Agility 3 120gb SSD boot drives, AMD Radeon HD 7950 @ 1100/1575 (Catalyst 12.1 Linux and 12.3 Windows), dual-boot Fedora 16 KDE and Windows 7 Pro
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Re: Ox model update

Postby Gungnir » Mon Feb 06, 2012 11:31 am

Yet another update!

Good news, an update for libdrm was released yesterday, and it seems to have fixed all the glitches. Thanks to this, I have been able to start on LOD2 (or it might be LOD3, it's coming out with a much lower polycount than I was expecting):

Image

With any luck, I'll finish this LOD tonight. These are way faster and easier than the main model was...
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segfault wrote:if I was actually in space I'd totally be throwing on autopilot and relaxing in the back during the trip, sipping space wine and listening (rlaan?) jazz.


Rig: i5 2500k @ 5ghz, 2x OCZ Agility 3 120gb SSD boot drives, AMD Radeon HD 7950 @ 1100/1575 (Catalyst 12.1 Linux and 12.3 Windows), dual-boot Fedora 16 KDE and Windows 7 Pro
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Re: Ox model update

Postby Deus Siddis » Mon Feb 06, 2012 12:04 pm

I just wanted to make sure you are aware of this-- maintaining the integrity of the UV map while reducing the geometry is an important element of LoD modeling. If you don't pin UVs and merge vertices instead of deleting them and such, the UV work will become full of holes and such and you might have a harder time getting it back into shape later. You might also want to switch to textured mode now and then to help you keep track of this.
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Re: Ox model update

Postby Gungnir » Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:59 pm

Deus Siddis wrote:I just wanted to make sure you are aware of this-- maintaining the integrity of the UV map while reducing the geometry is an important element of LoD modeling. If you don't pin UVs and merge vertices instead of deleting them and such, the UV work will become full of holes and such and you might have a harder time getting it back into shape later. You might also want to switch to textured mode now and then to help you keep track of this.


Yeah, about that...

Image
^Current UV map^

...Yeah, maybe I should work on this first...


In other news, Mesa is really hating life right now. It works, but just barely; changing the window partitions in Blender causes massive driver issues...
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segfault wrote:if I was actually in space I'd totally be throwing on autopilot and relaxing in the back during the trip, sipping space wine and listening (rlaan?) jazz.


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Re: Ox model update

Postby klauss » Mon Feb 06, 2012 11:25 pm

Good to hear libdrm is moving forward. We know how much it needs to ;)
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Re: Ox model update

Postby Gungnir » Tue Feb 28, 2012 7:39 pm

Well, I'm still alive, and coming to the end of a long list of changes and issues with my rig. To celebrate, I have good news and bad news.

Good news:
I now have a real GPU; none of this IGP garbage anymore.
I have Windows up and running (mostly).
I have begun work on the UV unwrap.

Bad news:
My Windows is having problems with missing .dlls; trying to fix those.
VS won't run because of the above issue; I'll try Fedora next time I reboot.
As for UV mapping... I have absolutely no idea what I'm doing.

Hopefully I will be able to figure it out with the help of chuck_starchaser's tutorial...
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segfault wrote:if I was actually in space I'd totally be throwing on autopilot and relaxing in the back during the trip, sipping space wine and listening (rlaan?) jazz.


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Re: Ox model update

Postby klauss » Tue Feb 28, 2012 9:35 pm

Good to know you're still doing this... getting this ox fixed is quite high on my "Important stuff" list, and whatever lesson you can get from the process will certainly be of help to others that can continue improving the models.

Furthermore, if by result of this work we can finally get a really high-poly model to be efficient even on lowly IGPs (LODs are for that), it means we can push even higher on detail levels and open the door for really cool stuff.
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Re: Ox model update

Postby pheonixstorm » Sat Mar 17, 2012 5:41 pm

What about the Ox textures/models from this thread Call for idea about OX texturing pattern
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Re: Ox model update

Postby Gungnir » Sun Mar 25, 2012 6:51 pm

Update time!

The UVs are progressing slowly but surely; with any luck, they should be done soon, then on to the LODs again.

pheonixstorm wrote:What about the Ox textures/models from this thread Call for idea about OX texturing pattern


Tried it with materials in Cycles, and I like it. Looks a lot better than the old textures did.

Image
(Note that this is all materials, no textures)
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segfault wrote:if I was actually in space I'd totally be throwing on autopilot and relaxing in the back during the trip, sipping space wine and listening (rlaan?) jazz.


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Re: Ox model update

Postby pheonixstorm » Sun Mar 25, 2012 7:21 pm

Looking good. Whats the current vert count? I think for something that size 15-25k should be fine.. I think we should find the last post chuck made on what's acceptable as far as vert counts. If memory serves up to 15k for fighters was supposed to be the norm.. that or 5k. Good reason to find that thread again :lol:
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Re: Ox model update

Postby loki1950 » Sun Mar 25, 2012 7:53 pm

It's freighter not a fighter :wink: which IIRC had a much high vet count as to the relevant thread one off chuck's cine-mute might do for a start.


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Re: Ox model update

Postby klauss » Sun Mar 25, 2012 7:58 pm

Yes, but this is about LODs, for lower-end GPUs.

Looking good.
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Re: Ox model update

Postby Gungnir » Sun Mar 25, 2012 8:03 pm

Right now, it's around 11k faces, 17k verts. There is a bit more cleanup to be done, but that's about where it'll stay.
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segfault wrote:if I was actually in space I'd totally be throwing on autopilot and relaxing in the back during the trip, sipping space wine and listening (rlaan?) jazz.


Rig: i5 2500k @ 5ghz, 2x OCZ Agility 3 120gb SSD boot drives, AMD Radeon HD 7950 @ 1100/1575 (Catalyst 12.1 Linux and 12.3 Windows), dual-boot Fedora 16 KDE and Windows 7 Pro
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Re: Ox model update

Postby pheonixstorm » Sun Mar 25, 2012 8:05 pm

Found the thread, its from 4 years ago so we can probably safely double everything chuck was talking about. See here viewtopic.php?f=4&t=13306&p=106837&hilit=15k#p106837 or in short

Rough guideline:
Fighter: 15k triangles
Corvette: 30k tris
Cruiserer: 60 k
Carrier: 120k
Space station: 250k


What do you think klauss, can we double or more those limits or do we still need to continue with the lower counts for now?
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Re: Ox model update

Postby Gungnir » Sun Mar 25, 2012 8:15 pm

pheonixstorm wrote:Found the thread, its from 4 years ago so we can probably safely double everything chuck was talking about. See here viewtopic.php?f=4&t=13306&p=106837&hilit=15k#p106837 or in short

Rough guideline:
Fighter: 15k triangles
Corvette: 30k tris
Cruiserer: 60 k
Carrier: 120k
Space station: 250k


What do you think klauss, can we double or more those limits or do we still need to continue with the lower counts for now?


Those guidelines are pretty good, IMO.
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segfault wrote:if I was actually in space I'd totally be throwing on autopilot and relaxing in the back during the trip, sipping space wine and listening (rlaan?) jazz.


Rig: i5 2500k @ 5ghz, 2x OCZ Agility 3 120gb SSD boot drives, AMD Radeon HD 7950 @ 1100/1575 (Catalyst 12.1 Linux and 12.3 Windows), dual-boot Fedora 16 KDE and Windows 7 Pro
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Re: Ox model update

Postby klauss » Sun Mar 25, 2012 8:21 pm

Ya, they're good as-is, and you can probably go a bit higher for stations if they're really big and you can do submeshes (so that each section is LODded independently), but it's a guideline for top lods. You need lower-poly lods because onboard GPUs (I'm thinking all intel up to sandy bridge) don't have good vertex processing capabilities.
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