hud redesign?

pontiac · Post by **pontiac** » Wed Oct 29, 2003 7:02 pm

Sometime ago a HUD-redesign has been mentioned (IIRC posted by hellcatv).
Who is actually working on this?
I tried to contact mbyron, but he seem to be unavailable.

Pontiac

PS: i have some artwork lying around, that may be worth looking at

Post by **dandandaman** » Thu Oct 30, 2003 2:42 am

I think that this is one of those topics that keeps coming up...and going away, as the hud needs some backend changes to become really configurable, and it's considered a low priority, so the hud redesign is put off

And then it's brought up, and it's discovered that a proper redesign requires backend changes, and..........

but post some links anyway

Dan.a

Post by **hellcatv** » Thu Oct 30, 2003 4:07 am

well we already allow textures per VDU/hud display
so coming up with some nice textures (partially transparent) as backgrounds for the comm and other text would be awesome and if shaped right may make things look cooler

pontiac · Post by **pontiac** » Thu Oct 30, 2003 6:47 pm

Ok here a link so you can see what i'm talking about:
http://vegastrike.sourceforge.net/users ... hud_22.png [UPDATED]
~700kB
EDIT: SVG Source is here:
http://vegastrike.sourceforge.net/users ... ign_22.svg [UPDATED]

Most (cool) things hidden in this pic will need HUD-backend changes for sure, (like log history, weapon-based energy, distance at enemy-frame, advanced weapon grouping ..yadda yadda yadda)

Even if we don't do the backend stuff i would really like to see at least the middle of this pic (the whole crosshair and indicator thing) in the game

If people likes it and i find some time i will start to make a hud out of it.

All grafics are full vector based (SVG) so providing high- and low-res textures/pics is quite easy.

EDIT: I forgot to add the description for the green bar at the bottom... it's the fuel

Pontiac

etheral walker · Post by **etheral walker** » Thu Oct 30, 2003 6:51 pm

Is it a gimp work or an ingame shot?

Duality · Post by **Duality** » Thu Oct 30, 2003 7:02 pm

hay what ship is that in the new HUD??

pontiac · Post by **pontiac** » Thu Oct 30, 2003 7:04 pm

etheral walker wrote: Is it a gimp work or an ingame shot?

Unfortunately it's "only" put together with gimp/sodipodi using a screnshot out off the gallery.
But "if" we somewhen include the grafics in the game it will look very similar

Pontiac

pontiac · Post by **pontiac** » Thu Oct 30, 2003 7:07 pm

Duality wrote:hay what ship is that in the new HUD??

The only ship shown in this pic is the llama .. your starting ship in 0.4.x

Pontiac

Post by **hurleybird** » Fri Oct 31, 2003 12:59 am

That looks really AWESOME!!! if that were in the game, it would probably double the gameplay.

One suggestion though. I see that you still have speed and acceleration as text. I would suggest changing the energy bar things around a bit to allow these in. I would suggestion putting speed and accel on the left hand side, so that they both are side by side, (imagine the current power bar with a curved split in the middle so its divided into two sections) and power + jump energy on the other side in around the same fashion.

Post by **hurleybird** » Fri Oct 31, 2003 1:01 am

Also, if that interface were used, maybe there could be a toggle so that you can operate the hud with a mouse (move things around, minimize stuff, etc)

Post by **dandandaman** » Fri Oct 31, 2003 6:19 am

looks great

.........as an interface for a trading game.....

but imho, for a ship designed as a fighted, KISS

not much changfe would be needed fotr that though...it's almost perfect for everything

))))

Dan.a

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri Oct 31, 2003 10:16 am

dandandaman wrote:but imho, for a ship designed as a fighted, KISS not much changfe would be needed fotr that though...it's almost perfect for everything ))))

An idea: implement the HUD with a severely cut-down window manager so the user can resize, hide or otherwise alter the HUD at will. Window position presets could be used for normal flight and combat modes.

The same window manager could also be used for the trade computer and the map; this would provide a more uniform visual appearance and simplify the codebase.

charlieg · Post by **charlieg** » Fri Oct 31, 2003 4:18 pm

SVG you say... yes, you might remember me previous comments like, "XWT can do it for you" and, "XWT is easy".

Well, it now supports SVG too as well as OpenGL acceleration on Macs (and Windows and Linux in due course).

Anyway, please ask on the XWT mailing list before doing your own SVG renderer as it could save you a _lot_ of work.

pontiac · Post by **pontiac** » Fri Oct 31, 2003 6:07 pm

@hurleybird:
Well, the problem with displaying speed and acceleration as grafic is that you can go at insane speed and the bar would just break out of the screen.
And if the bar is show as percentage you wouldn't see a bit of it when flying at normal speed

@charlieg:
About SVG: I just mentioned it, to show that i't pretty easy to make low AND high-res pics (pngs, jpegs etc ..) out of it.
But if SVG-support (via XWT or whatever) is included in vegastrike we can use it for sure.

Pontiac

PS: yes it would be cool to use a window manager for the HUD, but as everything else it _will_ be a lot of work

pontiac · Post by **pontiac** » Fri Oct 31, 2003 11:01 pm

i'm curretnly playing around with the cockpit files, but I can't get anything out of it.

Just take jumppower.spr:

Code: Select all

cockpit/jumppower.png cockpit/jumppower.png
.25 .09 
0 -.55

The first line is self-explaining (image + alpha map)
But what do the other lines mean?

same for disabled-cockpit.cpt:

Code: Select all

...
<WarpEnergy  file="jumppower.spr"    GaugeRight="1" xcent="0" ycent="-.55"/>
...

"jumppower.spr" is quite clear, but what do the values (xcent/ycent) mean?
I think that they represent the coordinates on screen, but in which way?

i just replaced some of the grafic files with others (not the same size) and they are displayed/replaced by some 'dummy' texture. What am I doing wrong?

Last but not least: Can i specify at which side (which direction) the bar should "shrink"?
is this the GaugeDown/GaugeLeft/... thing?
If so can i combine them too?
Pontiac

Starchild · Post by **Starchild** » Fri Oct 31, 2003 11:49 pm

Oooh...

Neat hud

FlyingAce · Post by **FlyingAce** » Sat Nov 01, 2003 1:14 am

YEA!!!! That's the kind of hud that would make the game look great!

Post by **mkruer** » Sat Nov 01, 2003 1:58 am

I have a HUD idea but if I told you I would have to shoot you. IMHO that HUD is good, but verbose. Seeing how half the people in this forum have access to Rylix I am glad no one is looking to it for ideas. Uh did that make any sense?

Post by **ace123** » Sat Nov 01, 2003 8:58 am

This topic has been discussed many times before:

Pictures of cockpits (Note: they were long before having two left VDUS or both froint and back radars)
http://vegastrike.sourceforge.net/backu ... kpit_1.png
http://vegastrike.sourceforge.net/backu ... kpit_2.jpg

Old threads:

This thread: hud redesign?
new hud? +Ideas
SourceForge forums: New cockpit
Some crosshair ideas: Possibilities for new crosshairs

Now about your cockpit: It looks pretty good. We might have to add a few buttons (Dock, ECM) to the code, and also borders might not be easy (If it is simply, a background texture like we already have, then some parts of a border will be stretched and blocky.)

Also, maybe a slight tinted background (high alpha) may be neat (could change it so it could be the color of the VDU text)

pontiac · Post by **pontiac** » Sat Nov 01, 2003 11:49 am

I know about all the older threads and also about the cockpit design in the rylix forum.
Sure, most of them are looking really cool, but the problem is that you can use NONE of them in the game since they are ALL only concepts and streaker arts.
Expect the one from PeteyG of course (thanks again), but that's 'only' a tweaked original VS-HUD.

If somebody can come up with a better HUD (than the current one)
and put it into game everybody can critic my effort to do this for myself

Even if the HUD i am draawing may not be the VS-main HUD in future, I will for sure use it.

Anyway, to make the HUD we have now better there need to be some code changes for sure.
We won't come around this one

@ace123:
As far as I can tell borders for the text boxes are already possible.
About the needed code for Dock and ECM buttons:
This has already put as feature request somewhere, can't find the posting though.
And as i said above, some code changes WILL be needed (this may not be the one needed).
For example the distance text under the target-frame
(this is also in the rylix-cockpit in another way) will sure need some code.
Is this even possible?
Second: Can the VDUs be turned on/of via keys or something?
Third: The new weapon display may also need some code changes.
Fourth is the communication screen on the bottom right ... yadda yadda yadda

But for now I only have the pictures and I really need to know how the whole
HUD-files are structured.
Can anybody answer the questions in this post?
http://vegastrike.sourceforge.net/forum ... 3348#13348

Pontiac

pontiac · Post by **pontiac** » Sat Nov 01, 2003 12:07 pm

Small update in the picture (damage indicators and textcolor change if in noncombat mode -> thread):

http://vegastrike.sourceforge.net/users ... hud_22.png
~700kB
SVG Source is here:
http://vegastrike.sourceforge.net/users ... ign_22.svg

I really need to know what the values mean in the cpt and spr file

Pontiac

Post by **hurleybird** » Sat Nov 01, 2003 7:22 pm

hey, now that you have the damage in the lower left corner, maybe you can move cargo to the upper right corner where you do not have a spot for anything yet.

Also, if we are going to make a new hud i think we should put 100% of our effort into it and do the BEST job that we possibly can. I think everyone here would like to se things like power distribution and a 3d-view of the target (while still showing sheilds and armor streanth in that 3d-view.

Another cool feature would be the ability to set different spaces in the hud to different views, such as behind, left, left right, up, and down. This would be very cool in combat, to be able to see if anyone's on your tail.

VS has always been laking a good hud. This is one of the most important (some would say the most important) feature in any space sim. I propose that we put 100% of our effort into making a new HUD, as this is a feature that is IMO absolutly vital.

Post by **hurleybird** » Sat Nov 01, 2003 7:48 pm

Two other real cool things in a new hud would be to show the turrets and there energy bars in the weapons section. Also, a way to show/set the ai on individual turrets would be cool (such as idle, offensive, defensive).

Another thing that would be good to see would be a launch interface for fighters (another cool thing to add would be launchable probes, which could detect cloaked units + extend radar).

also, i think that only some ships should be able to launch fighters.

Post by **mkruer** » Sun Nov 02, 2003 4:22 am

Right now everything for the HUD mentioned could be done just by improving the art work. There are no major reason why someone could not just punch out the new design.

Rylix HUD is running into a few major hold ups.

Multiple textures per surface. (daytime / nighttime surfaces i.e. running lights) Not Support in VS yet.
Animated Textures Again Not Support in VS yet.
Multiple levels overlapping HUD objects. Possible but results are unpredictable, not to mention the text aspect is still not supported.

Just to name a few.

In order to solve these issues there has to be some major underlying code restructure. Talking to a few people that know Cg, the way VS currently handles object makes it near impossible to use any type of FX and keep the FPS reasonable. This is way I argued and have argued that the entire underlying code for the engine need to be redone first.

Post by **hurleybird** » Sun Nov 02, 2003 5:45 am

Right now everything for the HUD mentioned could be done just by improving the art work. There are no major reason why someone could not just punch out the new design.

I have a hard time beleiving that everything in the hud propossed could be done with just art. Like the power bar for each weapon, the changes in communicaton, the arrow that points to where the enemy is, etc.

the art is already there, the programming isnt though.

we need to make the hud a flexible system which is easier to modify and add to. The heart of any game is its interface. You can have a good game with bad graphics, or bad sound, or slow speed, but never, ever, with a bad control system.

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