A normalmap/damagemap census

Thinking about improving the Artwork in Vega Strike, or making your own Mod? Submit your question and ideas in this forum.

Moderator: pyramid

Post Reply
chuck_starchaser
Elite
Elite
Posts: 8014
Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2003 4:03 am
Location: Montreal
Contact:

A normalmap/damagemap census

Post by chuck_starchaser »

Just curious: How many models in game have normalmaps?
How many of those are baked from a high poly mesh, --as opposed to just
drawn lines to make grooves?

Asking because I could implement the same normalmap encoding I use in CineMut, if
there's not too much art already committed to the current encoding. The CineMut way
is far better than the one used right now, needless to say.

Another question: How many units in game have damage maps? NOT just copies of
the diffuse texture; I'm asking about real damage maps. Because, again, we could
have a much better paradigm; but not if it's going to break a gazillion models.
Deus Siddis
Elite
Elite
Posts: 1363
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2007 3:42 pm

Re: A normalmap/damagemap census

Post by Deus Siddis »

It looks like there are very few normal maps out there and I think none have been baked from a higher res mesh.

Damage maps are a lot more common, mostly among combat ships. Rough guess is about 50% of ships in general have damage maps as of v0.5.
chuck_starchaser
Elite
Elite
Posts: 8014
Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2003 4:03 am
Location: Montreal
Contact:

Re: A normalmap/damagemap census

Post by chuck_starchaser »

Okeydoc; thanks. Then, I'm going to leave the damage representation as it is; only add an alpha channel to it, for detail control.
The normalmap will change to UUUV encoding (red, green AND blue for the dU; alpha for dV); I'll have to write a little application to convert a standard normalmap. Maybe I'll write it in Python so we can push it into Unit Converter itself.
chuck_starchaser
Elite
Elite
Posts: 8014
Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2003 4:03 am
Location: Montreal
Contact:

Re: A normalmap/damagemap census

Post by chuck_starchaser »

Alright; I just went through all the folders for vessels and installations.
The only units I could find with normalmaps are these four:
  • Ancestor
  • Hyena
  • Llama
  • Schroedinger
Additionally, I found three units with bump-maps that were apparently
never converted to normalmaps:
  • Hawking
  • Seaxbane
  • Relaysat
Is there something I'm missing?
I checked the planet textures folder, and no normalmaps there, either.

I'm asking because I'm changing to a new normalmap format, at the same
time as we switch to dds cubemaps; and I don't want to miss anything
important. The change affects all shaders and techniques; or at least
those using normalmaps. It changes the default normalmap from
blue.png to gray.png, and I have to convert all existing normalmaps at
once (commit them all at once, anyways).
Phlogios
Confed Special Operative
Confed Special Operative
Posts: 298
Joined: Sun Jul 30, 2006 1:38 pm
Location: Sweden
Contact:

Re: A normalmap/damagemap census

Post by Phlogios »

* Ancestor
* Hyena
* Llama
* Schroedinger
I made these normalmaps, just to try out the new feature. It was nothing serious, I just played around with my normalmap converter. I didn't work on any other ships, and I don't think anyone else did either. Oblivion made some bumpmaps but didn't convert them.
"Enjoy the Choice" - A very wise man from Ottawa.
chuck_starchaser
Elite
Elite
Posts: 8014
Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2003 4:03 am
Location: Montreal
Contact:

Re: A normalmap/damagemap census

Post by chuck_starchaser »

Gottcha, thanks!
The four you did are all converted to the new format.
The other three I made new format normalmaps from the bumpmaps.
Unfortunately, mesher crapped out segmentation when I tried to convert
the bfxm to obj or to xmesh; so I won't be able to call the normalmap.
It worked with the schroedinger, tho, and I'm baking an AO for it now.
Phlogios
Confed Special Operative
Confed Special Operative
Posts: 298
Joined: Sun Jul 30, 2006 1:38 pm
Location: Sweden
Contact:

Re: A normalmap/damagemap census

Post by Phlogios »

IIRC, there's some "AO" (if ya know what I'm saying) in the diffuse map of the Schroedinger. In most ships, even. I think.
Lots of diffuse maps to replace ;)
"Enjoy the Choice" - A very wise man from Ottawa.
chuck_starchaser
Elite
Elite
Posts: 8014
Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2003 4:03 am
Location: Montreal
Contact:

Re: A normalmap/damagemap census

Post by chuck_starchaser »

Hehehe, tell me about it...
Well, can't complain. Even with AO baked in the diffuse texture units look better
than with no AO at all. I'm actually proud of our artists for having taken initialtive
and done something. I'll try to fix them a bit, like by dividing the diffuse by the
AO as I add the AO to glow.alpha; but not too much; maybe at 50% strength. Thing
is, with proper AO computations, the eye will dismiss the AO baked in the diffuse
as "dirt" or "soot", which is not a bad thing, anyways; and don't want to introduce
too many artifacts by messing with the textures too much. OTOH, it may interfere
with the shader's material AI...
chuck_starchaser
Elite
Elite
Posts: 8014
Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2003 4:03 am
Location: Montreal
Contact:

Re: A normalmap/damagemap census

Post by chuck_starchaser »

New question, but probably not warranting a new thread:
What units have parts "made of glass", or "alpha-blended" anyhow, besides the mining base?
Deus Siddis
Elite
Elite
Posts: 1363
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2007 3:42 pm

Re: A normalmap/damagemap census

Post by Deus Siddis »

I think just the Agricultural station has glass sections (besides the asteroid station).
chuck_starchaser
Elite
Elite
Posts: 8014
Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2003 4:03 am
Location: Montreal
Contact:

Re: A normalmap/damagemap census

Post by chuck_starchaser »

Thanks!
Nice model! Simple, Unassuming, but mindful of issues like overdraw. Where do you see
these? They float in space like that?
And I guess there's just those three domes to glassify, right?
Deus Siddis
Elite
Elite
Posts: 1363
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2007 3:42 pm

Re: A normalmap/damagemap census

Post by Deus Siddis »

They seem to get spawned just about anywhere as far as I can tell. IMO they'd make more sense orbiting worlds too unstable or hostile for fragile bio-dome greenhouses. Or large stations with similarly large, hungry populaces.

But yeah, just the three glass domes I think. These domes seem to have a texture that maybe represents a reinforcing metal cage-like structure, which you might want to disable if it gets in the way of the glass shader effect.
chuck_starchaser
Elite
Elite
Posts: 8014
Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2003 4:03 am
Location: Montreal
Contact:

Re: A normalmap/damagemap census

Post by chuck_starchaser »

Ahem... Your theory is based on the assumption that these stations grow food. They
do not. Look at the kind of terrain they got under those bubbles. That's no grassy flat
planes for ranching; much less for wheat or soya or corn; that's mountain landscape.
Opium growers, I say...
I knew the economics of space based field work were suspect...
CLoneWolf
ISO Party Member
ISO Party Member
Posts: 443
Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 5:14 pm

Re: A normalmap/damagemap census

Post by CLoneWolf »

Deus Siddis wrote:I think just the Agricultural station has glass sections (besides the asteroid station).
Diplomatic Center too, IIRC; not domes, more like elliptical tubes, but still glass-like.
chuck_starchaser
Elite
Elite
Posts: 8014
Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2003 4:03 am
Location: Montreal
Contact:

Re: A normalmap/damagemap census

Post by chuck_starchaser »

Great! Thanks!
So,

MiningBase
Agricultural Station
Diplomatic Center

They will look gorgeous with the glass shader and cubemaps.
chuck_starchaser
Elite
Elite
Posts: 8014
Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2003 4:03 am
Location: Montreal
Contact:

Re: A normalmap/damagemap census

Post by chuck_starchaser »

Could someone give me the name of a system where there's an agricultural base, and
another where there's a diplomatic center? Been flying around and can't find any, and
then I got attacked by luddites. I don't want to get attacked; I just want to see the
changes to these bases.
chuck_starchaser
Elite
Elite
Posts: 8014
Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2003 4:03 am
Location: Montreal
Contact:

Re: A normalmap/damagemap census

Post by chuck_starchaser »

Never mind; I found an agri station and saved the game there; looking for a diplomatic now...
chuck_starchaser
Elite
Elite
Posts: 8014
Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2003 4:03 am
Location: Montreal
Contact:

Re: A normalmap/damagemap census

Post by chuck_starchaser »

Found a Diplomatic too. Didn't see any transparency, except for a subtle hint, a specular reflection
off an invisible surface apparently surrounding some tubes. Is that it?
I'll see what I see in the mesh.
CLoneWolf
ISO Party Member
ISO Party Member
Posts: 443
Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 5:14 pm

Re: A normalmap/damagemap census

Post by CLoneWolf »

Yes it is, I guess the glass walls are more visible at lower details; check this thread
Post Reply