Agesipolis Concept Revision Proposal

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Agesipolis Concept Revision Proposal

Post by Coraxus »

::Disclaimer Notice::
The following is a proposal. By no means do I intend to impose this concept as canon to the game development, nor do I have any last say in the matter. As I said, this is merely a proposal, it would be up to the staff and developers to decide whether or not they choose to accept this proposed change.

I had been pouring over the information regarding this starship and after much deliberation, my preliminary concept sketch to best match the descriptions have been fruitless. The way the ship is described is hard for me to grasp. It's not that whoever wrote it didn't have ill grammar or anything like that, it's just that my brain can process things only differently. The closest that I could come up with was basically a design that resembled more like a squid, but then when the concept description described the role of a Agesipolis, the intial concept sketch I came up didn't seem to suit the role very well.

Then I viewed the concept images and 3D modeling but they don't seem to really fit the descriptions. More over, the concept images didn't seem like a typical Aera warship at all. Various inconsistencies I believe were present. For example, the concept description mentions 2 sets of 3 projections, one group in the front, and the other near the rear, but the concept images showed each group had 6 instead of 3. So I decided to think hard on what a real typical Aera carrier would look like. I felt necessary to change the concept so that it was more fitting.

Image

To the best of my abilities, I have tried to incorporate some of the features described in the original description to best integrated in a concept of my own design that I believe fits most with the aesthetic designs of an Aera warship.

The hammerhead shape, 2 sets of 3 projections, an overall unibody design, along with the ship's intended role, was what I took out of the description and used it as a guide to designing a typical Aera warship. As you can tell, the ship is kinda far from looking like what the original description portrayed the Agesipolis as.


* Fighter Bay - This actually utilizes the hammer head configuration in the most effective manner. It allows deployment of fighters to immediately cover a wider flank formation simultaneously. The bay is two decks high, the top being the flight deck, and the lower is the hangar bay where fighters and attack vessels are stored. Flight decks are opened in the front and in the back of the hammer head design for easy management. You can also tell there is a smaller flight deck hugged closer to the body. During a battle, the main hangar bay doors are closed, but the smaller one are opened to allow incoming fighters to dock from the back as well as launching out from the front. They are also used when less than a few fighters are needed to be deployed but is not necessary to open the main hangar bay doors.

* Maintenance Facilities - Two areas intended to store maintenance equipments and supply parts to service fighters deployed in the battlefield. They are conveniently located next to the hammer head fighter bays for easy access.

* Cargo Storage Bay - Based on the concept description, the Agesipolis was also design to haul cargo goods and such. Since it happens to be located adjacent to the maintenance facilities, it is possible to expand the cargo capacity of such a ship and use the remaining space for additional loading equipment. The cargo storage takes up pretty much the center of the ship so it is likely to be the most fortified position when the ship is under attack.

* Auxiliary Bay - Used by smaller vessels to dock with the Agesipolis. It happens to be one of the 3 projections situated on the ventral (belly) side of the ship. The cargo storage bay is located above making the auxiliary bay a good location to load and unload cargo and equipment. The shape and design of the auxiliary bay bulges out but is partially recessed into the main hull so as to conform to the unibody design.

* Weapon Platform - They make up 2 of the 3 bulging projections based on the original concept description. Like the auxiliary bay, they too bulge out and are recessed into the main body. The location makes it ideal to protect the Agesipolis from broadside attacks. The description noted the type of weapons used by this starship but I made no effort to draw them in my concept design, but I imagine the aesthetic design would further blend in with the ship's body.

* Main Thrusters - The original concept description mentions another group of 3 projections located towards the aft. The main thrusters I drew in make up 2 of the 3, though they seem far different in shape as they are fins and the thrusters are well integrated into the body which are consistent attributes found on Aera fighters. On each of the stabilizing fins, there are two thrusters, one on the top and one on the bottom, this makes up a total of 4 thrusters for the Agesipolis.

* Command Island - One component I failed to label in my drawing sketch. With the 2 other projections that are used as main thrusters, the command island makes up the 3rd piece of the group situated towards the rear, it is heavily fortified making it one tough nut to crack, especially when it's well recessed into the main body. The bridge, briefing ready room, comm and sensor array are all located in that dorsal (top side) bulge. Beneath it however is the ship's main vital system and areas which extends towards the center of the ship such as engineering, medical sick bay, crew quarters not only for the crews that man the ship, but also for fighter pilots and flight deck operators.

Overall, I believe this proposed concept should be taken into consideration as I feel this is what IMHO feel could truly be a design of the Aeran race. I'm looking forward to comments and feedbacks, and if you like, you can take a crack at it by modeling a concept design. If you have any questions, lemme know.
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Re: Agesipolis Concept Revision Proposal

Post by Deus Siddis »

It looks like you might have strayed too far from the official concept. It seems to have more in common with the aera strike craft that it would be carrying than an aeran capital ship design.

It is well drawn though.
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Re: Agesipolis Concept Revision Proposal

Post by Coraxus »

Deus Siddis wrote: It looks like you might have strayed too far from the official concept.
Indeed I have as the main topic of this thread was about to bring about a change in revising the concept to help maintain a consistency in Aera ship designs.
It seems to have more in common with the aera strike craft that it would be carrying than an aeran capital ship design.
It is well drawn though.
It does strike a resemblence more or less to a strike craft, it's the kind of consistency design I believe should be maintained. For all I know, the hammer head might be a prominent feature on all Aera warships.
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Re: Agesipolis Concept Revision Proposal

Post by Deus Siddis »

The Rlaan tend to have each of their warships be more like a larger or smaller version of another with a similar layout. But the other species usually have changing proportions and layouts going between light and heavy war craft.

Specifically the visual difference in the Aera fleet is described as such on the wiki:
Light craft are more heavily bilaterally symmetric than capital vessels. Capital vessels are more likely to have numerous tri- or radial symmetries. For radial symmetries, multiples of 3 are common. Light craft tend to have both front and back extensions that, although vaguely winglike in shape, are not wings, and are fairly thick in proportion to the size of the craft. The extensions are proportionately much smaller for capital vessels. Larger capital vessels tend to have forward facing spinal mounts of architecturally significant size.
So basically the larger Aera ships have proportionately smaller protrusions, much larger and more obvious forward guns and symmetry above bilateral. That's only three features that are evolving going from strike to corvette to capital. IMO, that should be plenty to maintain a consistent looking design while also distinguishing between lighter and heavier craft visually.
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Re: Agesipolis Concept Revision Proposal

Post by Coraxus »

Thanks for the insight. I tried best to add in the tri-symmetric configuration, but given that my concept sketch appears to far derail from a typical Aera warship, I believe then that an Agesipolis would have to look more like a squid mainly because of the unibody nature in design. The tri-protrusions would probably resemble bulges that are more or less recessed into the main body, right? The overall appearance I get the impression of Aera warships is that they resemble more or less like organic aquatic leviathans.
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Re: Agesipolis Concept Revision Proposal

Post by Fendorin »

Hi Coraxus and welcome

This ship must be huge indeed the bigger in VS univers i guess
then yes it must be look huge, and old as a prototype for all other capital aera ship :
i did a modification of your first concept IMO it must look as that:
Image
i hope it will help you for refine your concept
don't hesitate to post idea and query we will be happy to help

the budget for this massive ship must be more as 300 000 tris then don't hesitate to ad detail

keep your posted concept and rename it for another ship ,
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Re: Agesipolis Concept Revision Proposal

Post by Coraxus »

Awesome, now that's what we're talking about. Although that is longer than I had anticipated, I believe this concept best fits the description far better than I could ever do. Initially I was going to sketch out concept number two. But with a little digging deeper, I believe we can refine the design to fit the description a bit more, but not necessarily literally as I believe there should be some leeway for creativity, but I did love the fact that you put the corvette bay seperate from the fighter bay, but I can see why the ship had to be that lengthy.

It appears that looking over the various Aera starships again, I seemed to have confused the physical descriptions of the Anaxandria for the Agesipolis. But I wanna know if both ships share very similar attributes, cause if so then I can help to further refine the design either through my description or possibly draw out another concept sketch. All in all, you did a good job there, though I wonder if hangar bays should be more tucked inwards rather than have it curve outwards as I believe the Aera tend to keep a unibody fit clean and tidy as much as they can.
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Re: Agesipolis Concept Revision Proposal

Post by Deus Siddis »

Coraxus wrote:The tri-protrusions would probably resemble bulges that are more or less recessed into the main body, right?
I'm not really sure by what you mean by "recessed into", maybe you could draw a quick sketch of what you are describing?
The overall appearance I get the impression of Aera warships is that they resemble more or less like organic aquatic leviathans.
That might not be a bad description, but try to avoid making them too organic looking. The Rlaan are the ones with the more organic looking, semi-biological ships.

I think the Aera ships are supposed to look more like they are built out of flat and slightly curved (on one axis) faces with rounded or beveled edges connecting them.
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Re: Agesipolis Concept Revision Proposal

Post by Coraxus »

Deus Siddis wrote: I'm not really sure by what you mean by "recessed into", maybe you could draw a quick sketch of what you are describing?
Think of a sphere inside a sphere, you carve a section from the outer sphere so that the surface of the inner sphere is exposed. But yes, I do intend to draw out another concept sketch.
That might not be a bad description, but try to avoid making them too organic looking. The Rlaan are the ones with the more organic looking, semi-biological ships.

I think the Aera ships are supposed to look more like they are built out of flat and slightly curved (on one axis) faces with rounded or beveled edges connecting them.
That's what I thought, the Aera aren't too organic as the Rlaans are, as is evident by the Ariston and the Nicandar, but I'm sure that a 3D model concept will do more justice than the rough sketches we've provided.

One more question though, are Agesipolis equipped with ordinances such as missiles and torpedoes?
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Re: Agesipolis Concept Revision Proposal

Post by Deus Siddis »

Coraxus wrote: That's what I thought, the Aera aren't too organic as the Rlaans are, as is evident by the Ariston and the Nicandar, but I'm sure that a 3D model concept will do more justice than the rough sketches we've provided.
Some one drew some nice concept sketches that show the Aera ships in alot more detail here:

http://vegastrike.sourceforge.net/forum ... =4&t=13251

Unfortunately, the art director took a very long leave before they were posted and hasn't returned since, so we don't know if they can be considered "official" concepts, but they might give you an idea what Aera vessels would look like in greater detail than the aging meshes and textures used in the game currently.

There's also a messy wiki page with something interesting information about general Aera design layouts and aesthetics:

http://vegastrike.sourceforge.net/media ... uide:Aeran
One more question though, are Agesipolis equipped with ordinances such as missiles and torpedoes?
I'm not sure, but everything we know about this ship is described on this page:

http://vegastrike.sourceforge.net/media ... Agesipolis
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Re: Agesipolis Concept Revision Proposal

Post by Coraxus »

Image

I've gone and revised the design with this next version. It took me to draw out this diagram longer than anticipated mainly because of some major construction happening in my room, combined with bad lighting, I feel I may have messed up on the front and back view drawing of this ship so please bare with me as I try to explain some things out properly.

I decided to stack two flight decks on one another, the top being for smaller fighters, while the bottom has a wider and bigger hangar bay to accommodate launching corvettes and other strike fighters. The gap between the fighter bay and the bigger launch bay on the top view is recessed in and flattened out to act more like a runway deck for fighters being launched from the carrier.

The hammerhead had been reduced in size from the previous concept version of mine and no longer serves as a major hangar bay but the larger launch bay more or less bleeds into its space. The hammer head is mainly used as a forward weapons platform as prescribed by the original concept description.

The very ends of the rear trilateral protrusion serves as an ideal thruster casing and if you look at the rear view, the thruster ports resemble a delta shaped configuration like the Mitsubishi logo.

This revision is a much cleaner design, though I suspect the final product will have more detailed greebling and whatnots. Again, if you feel like it, I encourage you to model it out, and if you have questions regarding my sketch, lemme know and I'll try to best answer them.
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Re: Agesipolis Concept Revision Proposal

Post by Deus Siddis »

Much better. :)
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Re: Agesipolis Concept Revision Proposal

Post by Fendorin »

It' s better

But still look close to a destroyer size or a similar ship as the Andolians' watson
i would like to propose you to attribute this ship above to the Dorissus :http://vegastrike.sourceforge.net/media ... l:Dorissusas is matching with a flight tender looking and is not bad at all.

The Aegisipolis must look as a Gigantic old aera ship and honestly the concept i post above (from your first sketch) doesn't really look as gigantic just big if you know what i mean.

If you are OK for attribute this concept to Dorissus :
The next step for you Coraxus is take each part of your concept (hammerhead, thruster module, weapon module...etc ) and design them in detail
as your concept is now a general shape but lack of detailled points.
how many thruster? how they look like ? how is inside the landing bay? how is the weapon on the weapon pod? where is the command bridge and how is distribute the window if it have ...etc ??
all this detail for sure you will ask yourself if you begin to modelize it ,

and more you concept a huge ship more you have to think detaill and produce/provide sketches to post on this page

It will be difficult for anyone pass here to modelize (and want do it ) without a picki concept
A good exemple is here : and it was for a fighter!! :
http://vegastrike.sourceforge.net/forum ... m=6&pos=19
i guess you have a good skill for sketching then it will be not a problem for you.
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Re: Agesipolis Concept Revision Proposal

Post by Coraxus »

Fendorin wrote:It' s better

But still look close to a destroyer size or a similar ship as the Andolians' watson
i would like to propose you to attribute this ship above to the Dorissus :http://vegastrike.sourceforge.net/media ... l:Dorissusas is matching with a flight tender looking and is not bad at all.
Hmm if it does matches closely to the Dorissus, then perhaps I should then attribute it to that. Problem is though, the image is broken in the page you linked me to.
The Aegisipolis must look as a Gigantic old aera ship and honestly the concept i post above (from your first sketch) doesn't really look as gigantic just big if you know what i mean.
Well they would have to be pretty big nonetheless to accommodate all kinds of fighter based on the description. Though I would like to see other "older" Aera ship models so I could get an idea of what I would be dealing with nonetheless.
If you are OK for attribute this concept to Dorissus :
The next step for you Coraxus is take each part of your concept (hammerhead, thruster module, weapon module...etc ) and design them in detail
as your concept is now a general shape but lack of detailled points.
how many thruster? how they look like ? how is inside the landing bay? how is the weapon on the weapon pod? where is the command bridge and how is distribute the window if it have ...etc ??
all this detail for sure you will ask yourself if you begin to modelize it ,
Usually when I design a ship, those things don't escape me as I do best to take into accounts on those attributes. As you could tell by my initial post, I've been explaining some of the details. Right now, I have virtually nothing but that tiny description of its role on the Dorissus. Is there another page that gives some detailed concept description or is that open for creativity and interpretation?
and more you concept a huge ship more you have to think detaill and produce/provide sketches to post on this page

It will be difficult for anyone pass here to modelize (and want do it ) without a picki concept
A good exemple is here : and it was for a fighter!! :
http://vegastrike.sourceforge.net/forum ... m=6&pos=19
i guess you have a good skill for sketching then it will be not a problem for you.
I can draw, but mostly drawing character types and stuff. But when it comes to technical draft drawing, I feel I am not so keen on that. I could try to draw in more necessary detail I feel needs attention but I can't promise anything in churning out refined draft drawing like the link you just provided.
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Re: Agesipolis Concept Revision Proposal

Post by Fendorin »

Hello Coraxus
Hmm if it does matches closely to the Dorissus, then perhaps I should then attribute it to that. Problem is though, the image is broken in the page you linked me to.
I guess they never Had picture on the wiki for the Dorissus because no concept was proposed for fit it , and the broken picture was a bulky generic cargo square indicating "no concept picture" and is currently the rule , if no picture =no concept yet was sketched except text description .
Well they would have to be pretty big nonetheless to accommodate all kinds of fighter based on the description. Though I would like to see other "older" Aera ship models so I could get an idea of what I would be dealing with nonetheless.
By old i mean = we need to have more new for design old :wink: and old can be some feature you currently don't see on modern aeran ship or look more modern stylish , as you want.
Obviously the final texture can give a old looking too ,as a dirty aspect ...etc,
But did you see the aeran's concept in the gallery section? i m sure they will inspire you. For details and others stuff
http://vegastrike.sourceforge.net/forum ... hp?album=6
I have virtually nothing but that tiny description of its role on the Dorissus. Is there another page that gives some detailed concept description or is that open for creativity and interpretation?
Dorissus is a flight tender, refuel and weapon supplier for light craft must be less armed as a destroyer, a few bigger as a destroyer, his purpose must be clearly visible as a refuel ship = Light few ship landing point+Cargo facility/capacity, .
for give u an idea see below linked picture
a current refuel ship is between a carrier and a combat ship(destroyer fregate or cruiser i have no idea)
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ ... efuel3.jpg

Plus the concept is open of course and , take a tour collect information about Aera, dive into our wiki mess , and propose accordling to the feeling of aera you get with all you research and what you finally think .

And i guess Deus Siddis, others and me will be here for help you and discuss.
I can draw, but mostly drawing character types and stuff. But when it comes to technical draft drawing, I feel I am not so keen on that. I could try to draw in more necessary detail I feel needs attention but I can't promise anything in churning out refined draft drawing like the link you just provided.
U already do a hull/shape concept just take a part of the hull as a ZOOM effect (something difficult to explain by text) and refine it again and again and if you can draw characters imagine nose as a thruster ....
Aeran style is curved and sharped line it shouldn't be difficult if u are more "characters" than "technical "

apologies for my bad english .
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Re: Agesipolis Concept Revision Proposal

Post by Coraxus »

Fendorin wrote: By old i mean = we need to have more new for design old :wink: and old can be some feature you currently don't see on modern aeran ship or look more modern stylish , as you want.
Obviously the final texture can give a old looking too ,as a dirty aspect ...etc,
But did you see the aeran's concept in the gallery section? i m sure they will inspire you. For details and others stuff
http://vegastrike.sourceforge.net/forum ... hp?album=6
Well, I have no trouble creating old hull designs through texture-wise, I was more concerned about coming up with an overall architecture design.
Dorissus is a flight tender, refuel and weapon supplier for light craft must be less armed as a destroyer, a few bigger as a destroyer, his purpose must be clearly visible as a refuel ship = Light few ship landing point+Cargo facility/capacity, .
for give u an idea see below linked picture
a current refuel ship is between a carrier and a combat ship(destroyer fregate or cruiser i have no idea)
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ ... efuel3.jpg

Plus the concept is open of course and , take a tour collect information about Aera, dive into our wiki mess , and propose accordling to the feeling of aera you get with all you research and what you finally think .
Well, that's probably a good start there. Though I wonder if it's possible to take the 2nd concept sketch of mine and give it an "older" look in terms of architectural design by making the unibody design less refined compared to modern Aera warships. Aside from making subtle tweaks like shrinking the 6 protrusion a bit to give the appearance of a lengthier design as is typical of a carrier, would you believe it might be enough to pass off for an Agesipolis concept design?
U already do a hull/shape concept just take a part of the hull as a ZOOM effect (something difficult to explain by text) and refine it again and again and if you can draw characters imagine nose as a thruster ....
Aeran style is curved and sharped line it shouldn't be difficult if u are more "characters" than "technical"
[/quote]

Well now that you put it that way, I guess I might be able to pull it off.
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Re: Agesipolis Concept Revision Proposal

Post by Fendorin »

Coraxus wrote :
Well, that's probably a good start there. Though I wonder if it's possible to take the 2nd concept sketch of mine and give it an "older" look in terms of architectural design by making the unibody design less refined compared to modern Aera warships. Aside from making subtle tweaks like shrinking the 6 protrusion a bit to give the appearance of a lengthier design as is typical of a carrier, would you believe it might be enough to pass off for an Agesipolis concept design?
:lol: you want your aegesipolis :wink:

I thinks is more about the feeling of the concept, it can be the aegesipollis but currently the silhouette doesn't look huge, is maybe too "compact" the weapon pod are not enough on the hull, is why it's feel not very big.
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Re: Agesipolis Concept Revision Proposal

Post by Coraxus »

Hmm, the weapon pods make up only a third of the entire number of protrusions, to add more would more or less go against the description designs though, remember, Agesipolis is not entirely heavily a weapons platform, but it can have point defenses that do not bulge out like sore thumbs though. I imagine there are port holes to which the point defense weapons pop out for the duration of protecting the carrier but that would have to be viewed in the zoom up sketches though.

As for the compact, I do admit the latest sketch doesn't give it a "carrier" feel to it, but if an older design look can be made, I imagine it's possible to stretch out its length a bit more and/or reduce the size of the protrusions altogether.
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Re: Agesipolis Concept Revision Proposal

Post by Fendorin »

Hi Coraxus

About give a "old look or earlier" maybe by a ring conception as a medieval armor gloves
i guess it can fit aeran earlie conception . as the modern aeran is monobloc .

for the lenght it will be good if the ship can be 6 lenght as is 1 widht (6/1) made by 9 rings first "ring" section is docking bay and last one the motor ...etc
and don't forget the ship must be Trisymetrical. means if you look the ship at an angle 0 /120/240 degree it have to look exaclty a same .

i didn't have chance to produce any sketches i will i will within this week
Thanks

here you can have some inspiration of a modern aera looking : http://vegastrike.sourceforge.net/forum ... =4&t=11303
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Re: Agesipolis Concept Revision Proposal

Post by Fendorin »

Hi like promissed i post sketches as a "feeling" of big aeran ship
is not the agesipolis more a concept of what can be an old aeran ship
Looking as monobloc ship with large plate :
Image

large view:
http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk75 ... t_high.jpg
Last edited by Fendorin on Mon Nov 16, 2009 9:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Agesipolis Concept Revision Proposal

Post by Fendorin »

Hi Coraxus
I have a proposition over the 2 concept you submitted for be the aegispolis
i m just thinking to give a bigger size effect to the overall shape and less "compact"
i followed you design hope is as you liked
And i thinking Aera must use the front bay as a landing bay mor as a takoff bay the rear should have a few bay for this point like that they are cover by the hammerhead weapon untill they reach a fighting speed (efficient way)
now the detailled concept ?? :

Image
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Re: Agesipolis Concept Revision Proposal

Post by Coraxus »

Hello, I'm back from my week vacation though I had some internet troubles the moment I had returned and was offline for a couple of days.

Hmm, that design sketch concept you displayed is coming very close to what I was thinking for a revision. Though I wonder why there are 3 sets of tri-protrusions instead of 2 as described in the text. But one question though, must all protrusion be exactly identical to one another in a set? As for the illustration, I believe we can go for that plating design you have going on there, though I think it might be better if the gaps weren't too exposed which could leave the edge sticking out too much. I imagine what you have on the illustration, except they're more enclosed a bit like well shut-tight panels.
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Re: Agesipolis Concept Revision Proposal

Post by Fendorin »

hi after some thought why not give to a agressive alien as Aera a star ship looking as their spirit :
more long protrusion as support for turret
Turned on front as a blade

what do you think ?

Image
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Re: Agesipolis Concept Revision Proposal

Post by charlieg »

Superb :shock:
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Re: Agesipolis Concept Revision Proposal

Post by charlieg »

Fendorin could you possibly drop me an email on charles.goodwin (anti-spam) gmail.com as I want to ask you something.
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