Brainstorming: MARS in 3276

[Fendorin]

Hi i wanted begun a thread over a Mars terraforming should do
I think it could be good if we can change the Mars map for a "already terraformed" one
is should be more immersive and little bit more impressive to have a planet already advanced.
then i did some test :

the "continent" the zone of mars are the most like earth and the "round sea" at bottom
Is here you can find the most big city and the Confederation assembly+the unified command
+intensive agriculture


the "outback" a light&extensive agricultural part:


and the canyon desert part occupied in majority by mining and extracting and military field:

[Turbo]

Your artwork is beautiful as always. If I understood you correctly, your choice of green areas was based on real Martial elevatation data. But, given Mars' current temperatures, wouldn't a terraformed Mars (designed to maintain heat and moisture) still have most of the vegetation near the equator to get more sunlight? Also, the water areas being so far from the plant areas would create quite a challenge for irrigation and I don't see how planetary weather patterns would move the moisture that far in any reliable way.

[Fendorin]

True most part of time i forget the "contraints parameter"

then i rework and i continue to follow the elevation map
and i thought is near equator in earth it have (soon had) huge forest due too the large ocean around and wet it (before the Sahara was a tempered zone with a "mousson" system like in south asia+india.

Then i thought Mars would be invert, more earth than water, the green part on the pictures in my mind should look like a toundra or grass/mushroom not tree. Of course near a "sea" it would be able to find some more complex vegetation but definitively not the same looking than earth vegetation because the gravitie is less the "Tree" need less strong structure the they should be more long and maybe the "flower bigger for attract the few kind of insect living in Mars (for reproduction) .
Mars in 3276VS time look like a mix between Siberian+the chinese interior desert but still more huge range of temperature.



But IMO in 3276 i think humanity will be just not yet advanced for living on Mars surface

[MC707]

But IMO in 3276 i think humanity will be just not yet advanced for living on Mars surface

Now that I disagree. 1200 years in the future will be very advanced. I think 500 years will be more than enough for humanity to terraform Mars. Just look how fast technology is growing right now, just think about how much technology grows in only 10 years.

[loki1950]

But still the chemical and physical processes of terraforming take time to have an effect planet wide,while certain areas might be habitable before the full process is complete the caretakers and engineers of the project.

Enjoy the Choice

[chuck_starchaser]

I think a more realistic representation would show just a sprinkle of green, very lightly applied. Mars cannot be terraformed to the point of looking green. The physics of it will not allow it. Its atmosphere is very thin (only 2% as much pressure as on Earth), and any absorption of CO2 by plants would thin the atmosphere even more.
There's a lot of CO2 on the ground, at the poles, also; but it would take some warming up for that CO2 to help thicken the atmosphere; but with plants taking up CO2, you'd get a cooling, instead, from the depletion of atmospheric CO2, a green-house gas, and the substitution of oxygen for it, which is not a green-house gas.
One solution would be to build huge mirrors on orbit around Mars, to increase sunlight and warm up the planet; but there are technical problems with that: There's a lot of stones and rocks orbiting Mars, due to its proximity to the asteroid belt. Mirrors could easily be broken/wrinkled/punctured
Or, you could introduce methane producing organisms first, to get green-house effects from methane to compensate CO2 absorption by plants.
But in any case, thickening Mars' atmo is only a temporary thing, as its gravitational force is not big enough to keep a much thicker atmosphere together. Solar wind will erode it, as Mars has no magnetic field to speak of, and therefore no protection.

[Fendorin]

I think a more realistic representation would show just a sprinkle of green, very lightly applied. Mars cannot be terraformed to the point of looking green. The physics of it will not allow it. Its atmosphere is very thin (only 2% as much pressure as on Earth), and any absorption of CO2 by plants would thin the atmosphere even more.
There's a lot of CO2 on the ground, at the poles, also; but it would take some warming up for that CO2 to help thicken the atmosphere; but with plants taking up CO2, you'd get a cooling, instead, from

Is maybe possible to suppose humanity in 3276 create a kind of "dna" manipulation and devellop a kind of "reflective vegetation" it should be White
+ "underground irrigation" (like early Persian did it in Iran 500 BC some of this tunnel a still working currently and continue to irrigate the Iranian desert)

Then i m agree Mars should looking like now with maybe few light cloud of a kind of new gas .

Mars, due to its proximity to the asteroid belt. Mirrors could easily be broken/wrinkled/punctured
And, in any case, thickening Mars' atmo is only a temporary thing, as its gravitational force is not big enough to keep a thicker atmosphere together.

Actuallyy this one should be placed between the sun and Mars more you are close to sun less is necessary to have a big mirror but maybe the best solution should be a mutitude of tiny mirror " a large cloud of tiny mirror .

Or the last "Epic" solutions should be something like the movie "TOTAL RECALL" with the (californian's governor)
Humanity find a artefact of ancient and is maybe why is currently the center of the confederation army (means this artifacts are the most important "gift" of ancient to humanity....blabla and the stories continue

[chuck_starchaser]

Fendorin, plants on Earth look green because they possess two light-to-chemical energy converters: One that works from red light; another that works from blue light. Green light is useless to plants, so they reflect it back, so they look green.
(Some plants lack the ability to convert blue light, so they look blue-green.)
The "white plants" you propose would by implication reflect all light colors, and therefore not use light for photosynthesis. What do they use for energy input, instead? Not to deny it might be possible to convert ultraviolet light...
In any case, if you take the present Mars texture and give it a very light sprinkle of green noise, that would be defensible. Making it deep green could be offensive to some who know that's impossible, and it would be indefensible.
Chances are, plants on Mars will only grow inside greenhouses, tended to by people who grow them for food.
Which brings me to another issue: Chances are Mars will at most be as populated as Antartica. There is no reason to have large populations there. It's a pretty inhospitable place, and as for mining, we've got a long way to go mining asteroids before we need to mine a planet, with its concomitant cost of lugging the ores UP its gravitationa field. And for fuel, we got Luna, with a lot of Helium 3. There's really not much economic potential for Mars.

[Fendorin]

ho nooooooo !!!

is so .....realistic.....

I want somethings strange and remenber french king was not so interressed by canada ( quebec) and Louisiane because they tought is to expensive to maintien a colony just for get furs and coton then they don't protect them very well and we (french, not me ) loose it in 50 year after 2 war against British........ and now
is such a rich place and more populated than europe .....

[Deus Siddis]

I want somethings strange and remenber french king was not so interressed by canada ( quebec) and Louisiane because they tought is to expensive to maintien a colony just for get furs and coton then they don't protect them very well and we (french, not me ) loose it in 50 year after 2 war against British........ and now
is such a rich place and more populated than europe .....

But what if the French king from square one just let the British have North America and Mars, and instead colonized Venus?

As close as it is to the sun, Venus can hold on to more than enough (in fact far too much) of its atmosphere and biologically converting its heavily Carbon Dioxide rich atmosphere to Oxygen would help it cool down. Your main problems are removing atmosphere (maybe fixing it in the soil) and then adding (alot of) water. But once complete, it should theoritically be a stable environment.

So why not make Venus your green planet?

[chuck_starchaser]

Given the increasing amounts of led poisoning of the Earth environment, and rising global temperature; in a few more generations we might have evolved and adapted and be ready to colonize Venus

[Phlogios]

Venus is very, very hot. The planet with the highest average temperature in our solar system.

[chuck_starchaser]

Yep. You get led drizzle in the morning. Mountains have led caps, instead of snow caps.

[loki1950]

I assume that that is lead drizzle chuck led does not fit in this context yeah English spelling does not make sense being a combination of history and political convenience.

Enjoy the Choice

[Deus Siddis]

Venus is very, very hot. The planet with the highest average temperature in our solar system.

Yep, and yet it is not as close to the Sun as Mercury.

That's because so much of that heat is caused of the atmospheric density and it's heavily carbon-dioxide make-up. You change those two elements and the place starts to get alot better. Then if you want something better still, than just a desert in your backyard, add alot of water from elsewhere in the system. These sorts of changes would be massive, but along with some sort of microbial ecosystem established there, it should be extremely stable, like earth, unlike mars. Venus, FTW.


Re: Lead:

Me eet lEed fer teh brakfest aNd it no't bade fo mes to eet soo Me sur plantat vEnes safee plaas tooo liv!

[Fendorin]

But in VS Venus are unexplored???

in the game i never have patient for finding earth/sol system

then the terraforming processus are very long
then is why i thought 3276 bc are much too close to our current world
even for do a difference between mankind (shaper,andolian,mechanist....)

Then Mars in VS will look like currently or a light green ok:( and people living in underground city
nobody never see the movie: "Alphaville" "Thx 1138" or "Logan's Run".....

Then why is a place of confederation army/siege??
Nobody had idea to put the United Nation building in a Sahara desert?

[Deus Siddis]

But in VS Venus are unexplored???

No I mean if you want a terraformed planet in the Sol system, then I would make Venus the terraformed world.

That would be more original, since mars is usually the one that gets terraformed, perhaps simply out of habit and fame.

then the terraforming processus are very long
then is why i thought 3276 bc are much too close to our current world
even for do a difference between mankind (shaper,andolian,mechanist....)

Remember that people did not lose nanotechnology until they starting using jump drives and the nanoplague came. So they might have used things like nanotechnology, in addition to biotechnology to terraform worlds in ways faster than we can fully imagine in the 21st century.

(and people living in underground city nobody never see the movie: "Alphaville" "Thx 1138" or "Logan's Run".....

I have seen Logan's Run and was planning on seeing THX 1138 at some point.

Then why is a place of confederation army/siege??
Nobody had idea to put the United Nation building in a Sahara desert?

The confederation headquarters is on mars for political reasons, plus the lower gravity might help transportation from orbit to surface and back.

There is no more UN by the time of VS.