Space Massivelly multiplayer!! o yeah!

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PeterTable

Space Massivelly multiplayer!! o yeah!

Post by PeterTable »

If you could support TCPIP and massively multiplayer, this could be more than great !
PeterTable
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Post by PeterTable »

if server code is available, i can supply an account on a comercial server that is always online (linux)[/quote]
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Post by hurleybird »

Wow... that sounds awesome! networking is already in progress and massivley multiplayer is planned. We could use any servers which we can find to help host different universes. Thank you for the offer!
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Post by PeterTable »

Good! :D

An account like vega.rednaranja.com could be set up as per your teams request on our main server server1.rednaranja.com.
A domain can be bought at goddady.com (costs 9dlls)

Its a rednhat 7.3 internet appliance, 100% intel compatible AMD 1ghz server with 512 ram so if it runs from the console of your PC with linux, it runs there.
I have development experience with crystal space if that helps.
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Post by hurleybird »

The projects alwas looking for help, theres lots of stuff planned for VS, but we dont have enough developers to do all of the stuff we have planned at one time (for ex. the dynamic universe vs. interface polish vote for 0.4.0, which dynamic universe won) what type of work did you do with crystal space if I may ask?
V4X3N Being Lazy

"RTFPSS"

Post by V4X3N Being Lazy »

I don't mean to triple the workload, but one pretty cool thing I've been finding on the net increasingly lately are FPS games with a RTS, RPG, and multiplayer elements. To explain, this is essentially one or more people on a team performing infrastructure and command functions, with teams pitted against each other (or potentially against AI teams).
The most developed and debugged example of this I've yet found is a mod for Half-Life called Natural Selection. Link: http://www.natural-selection.org/
There are others which I have run across, but not bothered to bookmark, including one which actually is set in a space sim with varying types of player ships. Natural Selection itself has examples of two models for team organization which should be examined, if such a project is undertaken.
Thoughts/comments? I think this would be extremely cool, and perhaps *MUCH* less work to put out than the dynamic universe and interface polishing items, as well as being an excellent way to deal with the hostile anarchy in many multiplayer games. It would be great for those who want pulse-pounding action, and don't want to spend hours flitting from system to system to search for that one upgrade/ship/mission/faction they want.
RunnerLazy

no!

Post by RunnerLazy »

Don't turn VS into a clone of these team on team multiplayer games, they are so boring!

Well, but that's just my personal opinion.
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Post by Duality »

what other space sim was it called that you didn't book mark that had the same concept for Natural Selection?? I'll do a search for it.

I wanted to take a look at it.
Last edited by Duality on Sat Apr 26, 2003 11:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
V4X3N Being Lazy

Do the words...

Post by V4X3N Being Lazy »

Do the words, "Optional mode," for the currently not-finished multiplayer assuage your mortal terror? :) I suggest it for reasons including that it is one option which would be excellent for forcing players to interact closely and such, which would be good for some aspects of testing - harder use finds more flaws.
Nobody has declared that this will be the only multiplayer available in the game ever. I'd have a Spanish Inquisition myself, if someone thought that was a good idea - a persistent state world sounds very cool.
V4X3N Being Lazy

Where I found out about these RTFPSSes

Post by V4X3N Being Lazy »

I don't remember the name, but I go to http://www.penny-arcade.com for the gaming news. I remember finding it and Natural Selection through items in its news page, and I think that the links are findable in the last month (or maybe two - I think possibly in March now that I consider). I would be obliged if you could do that search right now, as I'm in the middle of trying to weed/update the feature requests FAQ of all the dead and new forum links.
If you are terrified of the thought of doing this, ask me to do it and there is a good chance that if your voice is joined by others I might do it sometime in the next two weeks.
Quick Man

Post by Quick Man »

if there wanted to be a team on team type concept for vegastrike, it could be a seperate modification for the game itself..

lets just make the original game stick with the old trading/exploring concepts for now...

i wasn't planning to come up with anything else major until version 0.4.0 comes out.
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Post by hurleybird »

If the ability to create clans would be in multi-player, that would be pretty cool!
V4X3N Being Lazy

I like this concept in part because...

Post by V4X3N Being Lazy »

One thing I like about this game style/type is that matches are quick, and it would work very well for a 1-hour LAN party session. Say that Multiplayer FPSes are boring all you like, but CounterStrike is probably *THE* most popular game on the net right now.
If after an exploration the idea turns out to be too much hassle, then let's drop it like a hot rock. Still, I suspect it could be an excellent stepping stone on the way to development of some of the aspects of the Dynamic Universe system, including for modelling in-system battles and for generating/testing basic infrastructure interaction items. (I.E. hot refuelling, repairing, and such.)
Guest

Post by Guest »

hurleybird wrote:The projects alwas looking for help, theres lots of stuff planned for VS, but we dont have enough developers to do all of the stuff we have planned at one time (for ex. the dynamic universe vs. interface polish vote for 0.4.0, which dynamic universe won) what type of work did you do with crystal space if I may ask?
I worked on the following projecgts:
*development of the 3d interface of a mitsubishi arm robot somulation. (used skeletal model for it).
*Educational 3d model of our solar system with between flight planets animation, realtime orbit position animation and a few dialogs to show info about the planets.
*Unfinished work on a tile based RPG, zelda style.
*unfinished work on a massively multiplayer online space Sim/RPG. Did the design and started work on client code, game entities factories and simulated multitasking game entities kernel.
Guest

Re: I like this concept in part because...

Post by Guest »

V4X3N Being Lazy wrote:One thing I like about this game style/type is that matches are quick, and it would work very well for a 1-hour LAN party session. Say that Multiplayer FPSes are boring all you like, but CounterStrike is probably *THE* most popular game on the net right now.
If after an exploration the idea turns out to be too much hassle, then let's drop it like a hot rock. Still, I suspect it could be an excellent stepping stone on the way to development of some of the aspects of the Dynamic Universe system, including for modelling in-system battles and for generating/testing basic infrastructure interaction items. (I.E. hot refuelling, repairing, and such.)
Two ideas to solve these issues are:
*Provide areas that are close to a neutral base that aren't "guarded" by NPCs, like an asteroid field or other areas. This grounds would be used like Arenas or dogfight scenarios.
*A way to avoid exploration becomes boring is to provide "jump gates" between user allied/race bases at a fee. This fee is paid with ingame currency earned by ransoms, dogfight wins, trade or quests, but never dollars, of course.

This way there will be content for both 1hour dogfights and some space RPG fans. Or for the people in the middle could do ransom raids, like clean up an area from some alien vermin, or do scort jobs for NPC transports..
1hour players would better travel using jumpgates, others could fly normally to harvest materials on the way, kill some mobs for cash or just to keep the chair warm.

I have a lot of ideas like these to share from my previous, abandoned project and would be happy o participate.
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Post by PeterTable »

Previous two posts are mine :P forgot to log in. :shock:
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Post by hellcatv »

Yay PeterTable
try downloading the latest data and source from CVS...then you can look at the dynamic universe stuff and networking stuff we've got so far

feel free to contact me on ICQ as per below
Vega Strike Lead Developer
http://vegastrike.sourceforge.net/
V4X3N Being Lazy

Considerations

Post by V4X3N Being Lazy »

Anonymous wrote:
V4X3N Being Lazy wrote:One thing I like about this game style/type is that matches are quick, and it would work very well for a 1-hour LAN party session. Say that Multiplayer FPSes are boring all you like, but CounterStrike is probably *THE* most popular game on the net right now.
If after an exploration the idea turns out to be too much hassle, then let's drop it like a hot rock. Still, I suspect it could be an excellent stepping stone on the way to development of some of the aspects of the Dynamic Universe system, including for modelling in-system battles and for generating/testing basic infrastructure interaction items. (I.E. hot refuelling, repairing, and such.)
Two ideas to solve these issues are:
*Provide areas that are close to a neutral base that aren't "guarded" by NPCs, like an asteroid field or other areas. This grounds would be used like Arenas or dogfight scenarios.
*A way to avoid exploration becomes boring is to provide "jump gates" between user allied/race bases at a fee. This fee is paid with ingame currency earned by ransoms, dogfight wins, trade or quests, but never dollars, of course.
This way there will be content for both 1hour dogfights and some space RPG fans. Or for the people in the middle could do ransom raids, like clean up an area from some alien vermin, or do scort jobs for NPC transports..
1hour players would better travel using jumpgates, others could fly normally to harvest materials on the way, kill some mobs for cash or just to keep the chair warm.
I have a lot of ideas like these to share from my previous, abandoned project and would be happy o participate.
Your idea presupposes that the players involved would be logging in to a massively multiplayer universe server, and playing a LAN-style game on it. On the other hand, many folks who play LAN games generally already have their own LAN, and don't want to play with outsiders interrupting.
As well, the current game settings (as of 0.3.1) do not make for an easy, robust, simple interface, as works best for LAN gaming.
Further, the extended universe being what it is, regular players who have a stock of ships tricked out with items that are hard to find in the universe, could easily interfere using Deux Ex Machina level firepower in firefights between players with accounts one hour old.
Stretching the current upgrade and repair settings in the game to fit a hot-action LAN game doesn't seem feasible to me, although I don't know how much has been changed in the current builds, compared to 0.3.1.
There is also the consideration that reliability and lag issues are easier to deal with on a LAN, than on a standard server on the net. I suggest that these are all good reasons to try and make LAN gaming happen first, before extending the development on to working on a persistent-state universe, running 24/7 on internet servers, accessible by all and sundry.
Have I erred or omitted something important in my considerations, as I've outlined them?
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Post by scheherazade »

major consideration is that when you make something for one thing, it tends to specialize in that area.

you may build in methods that just wont handle lag, if you first go lan.
and you might not even notice them because your latency and data loss will be so low on a lan.

you need an environment that is low bandwidth to first test your limitations and make sure you don't have something unexpected show up when you go from LAN->inet.

-scheherazade
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Post by hellcatv »

besides, we have splitscreen if you're really close to the person you're playing :-)

so that's a good replacement until the multiplayer is finished
Vega Strike Lead Developer
http://vegastrike.sourceforge.net/
V4X3N Being Lazy

Speeding Development To 6 Months For Completion

Post by V4X3N Being Lazy »

Scheherazade wrote:major consideration is that when you make something for one thing, it tends to specialize in that area.
you may build in methods that just wont handle lag, if you first go lan.
and you might not even notice them because your latency and data loss will be so low on a lan.
you need an environment that is low bandwidth to first test your limitations and make sure you don't have something unexpected show up when you go from LAN->inet.
This is true also. Can you make a countersuggestion that works well for LAN and internet gaming?

I suspect that limited session time games, with user-servers like the HL lists would be a great gamestyle if it were developed enough, and quicker to debug/implement than a big MMPSOSCTG (massively multiplayer persistent state online space combat and trading game).
I'm surprised that high-action multiplayer gaming hasn't involved many dogfights, IME. This is one more way Vega Strike could gain popularity - doing something that nobody (few?) in the commercial industry is doing (well?) yet.
At the same time, one could extend your argument, and say, "It won't test persistent state issues," if you first go short-game, and be similarly right.
Overall... I'm wondering if we can't take a lot of the existent work, put a layer of polish and simplification over it, slap in some basic networking, and put out something at or above the level of CS already. This would impress more people, sooner, with the game development possibilities of Open Source (part of the mission statement). Not that it isn't nice to shoot for being able to put absolutely everything into the game, but I'm a big fan of testable and polishable incrementalism myself. :) Further, it might give VS the big boost in recognition of being the *First Ever* open source game that looked complete.
It is entirely reasonable to want to make this a plug-in to the base code, as we don't want any contamination issues with fragile code that can't handle MMPSOSCTG.
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Re: "RTFPSS"

Post by Shrike »

V4X3N Being Lazy wrote:The most developed and debugged example of this I've yet found is a mod for Half-Life called Natural Selection.
"Need a medpack. Need a medpack. Need a medpack. NeNeNeNeed a medpack. Medpack. Medpackmedpack. Need a medpack. NeNeed a medpapapapack. Need a medpack. Need a medpack."

<message guy in command chair>
GODDAMMIT DUMBASS! I NEED A FUCKING MEDPACK! AND THEY DESTROYED OUR LAST REMAINING RESPAWN POINT! HURRY UP AND BUILD A NEW ONE!!!
<repeat that about 20 times to get his attention, since everyone else is doing the same thing>

Guy in command chair drops a heavy machine gun on a light trooper, then drops a med pack behind the Fade that just came through the door.

Fade kills everyone in the room with ultra-mega acid rockets...

Rinse and repeat.
V4X3N Being Lazy

Thank You Shrike

Post by V4X3N Being Lazy »

This is why I don't internet game - there are too many morons and assholes on the net. :)
LAN play using teams of folks I know on the other hand has yielded fun and interest for me. Play a bit of X-Com and a bit of pretty much any RTS, and you can well appreciate what's what for being a good commander in NS. I did it, and am usually considered the best commander on our team, and not half bad as either a light or heavy soldier either.
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Post by Shrike »

I've hosted a few lan parties, but I never liked hauling a full desktop computer system around town, and finding the time to go to a party has always been a problem.

I much prefer to play on the internet, since I can do it without moving my computer, and since I can always find a game going when I've got the time to play.
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Post by KleiZwei »

An idea for multiplay would be an escape jump, you would jump away to a random neighboring system, but when you get their your jump drive would be broken, leaving you disadvanteged if you jump into a new fight.

my second idea is engines, and weapons should become destroyed or operate less efficiently if they get damaged... and should be worth something to the person who destroys them...
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