Vega Strike Forums

Unless you encode it either in base64, or base16 (hex), or binary if you wish. Anyway... not efficiently.

klauss wrote:Unless you encode it either in base64, or base16 (hex), or binary if you wish. Anyway... not efficiently.

no. it has nothing to do with the encoding of newline itself- it has to do with a particular bit sequence being used as the terminating character. This requires that no other equivalent bit sequence can be encountered in the linear search prior to discovery of this character. This works for text because no other text character is \n. This does not work in the presence of any non-ascii data. Therefore, the code must be restructured to accomodate binary data.

Yes... and base64 is such restructuring. It encodes binary data as a series of alphanumeric characters. Actually, base64 per-se is not useful, since it uses = as sequence terminator. But, still, a similar encoding can be used with uses only 64 symbols, and strategically avoids the "sensible" symbols. That's how MIME works, and some encoding formats for HTTP POST requests when handling binary data.

However, such encoding requires consistently more bandwidth: the resulting string is 4/3 the size of the binary string.

klauss wrote:Yes... and base64 is such restructuring. It encodes binary data as a series of alphanumeric characters. Actually, base64 per-se is not useful, since it uses = as sequence terminator. But, still, a similar encoding can be used with uses only 64 symbols, and strategically avoids the "sensible" symbols. That's how MIME works, and some encoding formats for HTTP POST requests when handling binary data.

Profound apologies, I thought you were discussing re-encoding just the newline character. It must be too early in the morning for me :-/

You are of course correct that re-encoding the entire symbol set to disallow whatever control characters are needed is exactly how one goes about circumventing this problem (while keeping the same algorithm).

There are, of course, different approaches that circumvent the root problem entirely.

jackS wrote:There are, of course, different approaches that circumvent the root problem entirely.

Hey... that's exactly my point in the abover posts.

klauss wrote:

jackS wrote:There are, of course, different approaches that circumvent the root problem entirely.

Hey... that's exactly my point in the abover posts.

Nothing so fun as violent agreement, non?

I was browsing around the internet one way and I happen to run into an article claiming that you can have a ton of players connected to a single laptop.

http://www.devmaster.net/articles/mmo-scalable-server/

I'm not getting too happy about this article yet, because I see this article is dated July. And I don't know if it will exactly work for open ended mmo's like this one.

@Duality and all
I think dis direction we use for the mmo system
And meby can we use also Peer2Peer

edit: @Duality
dis article hef submit at 7 oct 2005 and not 10 July 2005

Oh your right.

I got confused with the date. So it's dated a couple of weeks instead of couple of months back.

But anyways, if we ever wanted to have the vegastrike multiplayer server to be writtin in erlang, I would wonder if it would be worth the time for anyone volunteering to learn erlang and then write the server.

I guess it's just my dream though.. Because still don't know if anyone would like that idea or not.

@Duality
I think more to we use RakNet than erlang...
The most coders here know C/C++/Python thab erlang...
And also is RakNet GPL
Edit: dis is a good article...

I've also heard of RakNettoo.

It's also one of the best networking libraries out there too..

But this boggles my mind but it used to be a commercial product. You can stil try thing thing and see if you still get the limited 31 client connections. If not then this may be the thing to go.

Duality wrote:I've also heard of RakNettoo.

It's also one of the best networking libraries out there too..

But this boggles my mind but it used to be a commercial product. You can stil try thing thing and see if you still get the limited 31 client connections. If not then this may be the thing to go.

GPL License of raknet

rakkarsoft.com wrote: GPL License
Freely distributable / open-source
Can be used with any other GPLed license.
Windows / Linux / Unix.
Forum support.
Unlimited Distribution.
Free.

Can som one tel my ther ar suport for clan's in the mmo version of
vegastrike...
if not can use as Feature Requests...

Thoughts on different portions of the multiplayer thread.

-=disconnection/drop=-
If you drop carrier/get disconnected, your ship goes into automatic pilot.. you can purchase different levels of automatic pilot..You start with the standard automatic pilot software.. it takes you to the nearest planet .. as if going from point A to point B.. no real defence, no trying to dodge, just a straight run to the location.. .. you have lets say, 8 levels of automatic pilot software you can purchase (the last level being very expensive) Level 8 software could be something like maximum manuverability with maximum thrust, whatever countermessures you have onboard and antimissle turrets to get you to the nearest planet without a mark on the ship.. in my opinion, automatic pilot software should be wholey defence oriented.. no attacking other ships, even if they are aggressive.

-=Cloning/death in the VS universe=-
Steve jackson had an interesting way of doing the death and cloning thing.. you had to go to a city (or in the vs universe, a base) that had the paticular company that did the cloning, and update its memory for a given fee.
In VS, a player could start with one clone. .. at certian computer terminals, they could update this clones memory.. I can see certian factions not allowing this at thier computer terminals. also the more backwards or unexplored portions of the universe would not have access to this sort of updating. New clones would be fairly expensive.. say 20 or 30 million credits.. updates could be dependant on how much time has passed between the previous update and the current one. Now, say you updated like a month ago, and you go out, and you purchase yourself a fully outfitted Ox, came into some really large sum of money, and found yourself indebted to some faction. you then die. your clone is activated.. you would find yourself out of that money, still held with that debt (unless that faction was the one that did you in), and out one fully outfitted ox (for game play purposes, the ship would just be relocated to a new possion in a different system.. for anyone to find) [the ox thing is in a scenario where you leve your ox in a smaller ship and then die outside of it.. if there are other players that are a part of your team/crew, then the ship stays in the same possion, and its assumed they contact the clone to let them know where they are. unless the crew walks off with it]
This system allows for both continued gameplay after death, and the possibility to die permenantly..

-=capships/everyone owning the biggest ship possible=-
Somone mentioned that capships should only be avaliable to large factions/goverments, as if it were avaliable to any single player, everyone would gravitate to the largest ship possible. In the VS universe, 4 or 5 small, fast craft, can take out a capship. I think douglas adams said it best.. "Looks like a fish, Moves like a fish, steers like a cow"
Yes, they have owsome firepower.. yes they have awsome shields and armor.. they also maneuver like a rock. A single capship out in the uncharted by itself is an open invitation to a buffet of new and dented parts.

-=player factions=-
A thought on player made factions. Players could be allowed to have a paticular insignia, which they might paint on thier ships.. also as a side thing, it would be cool if as a player, I could paint my ship whatever colour I wanted, designs, ect..
also, frequencies could be avaliable to players.. so a faction may use a paticular band, where they game may support a range of like 1 to 20000000. so a given faction may use band 19345.. and they can pick up software (at a cost) that includes encryptions and so forth, to keep thier frequency as secure from prying eyes or people that come across that band range by accident.

-=Ship Creation=-
Someone mentioned the possibility of creating your own ship designs.. some thoughts on that.. depending on which race or VS faction you build your ship from (thier factory), depends on subtleties in the design.. so a custom ship built in a Rlaan factory is slightly modified to give it that buggish/organic look that you find on most thier ships. A custom ship built in the confed territories would be more blockish, ect.. and player made factions could have certian details in ships designed from them come up or pan out in the fabrication of custom ships.

-=players on ships=-
Personally, I'd like to be able to have multiple players on a single ship.. aside from the fun of being able to control a turret, it would also make sence in the passanger copacity.. A player may start a secure, get you to the planet you need to go to, passanger company. you set up in the computer for what system or planet you need to go to, and the price you are willing to pay for getting there. (though, there is no ingame garentee that you'll pick someone that is honost in thier ability to get there, versus taking your money and flushing you out the airlock) One could also offer the same but with thier ship.. so an ox might be willing to take a ship or a fighting group to a given location.

-=The discussion of newbies and dying and so forth=-
Have players start off in the common lanes. like deep confed or such.. not on some edge system that is the target of every faction that passes by.. Deep confed may require players to keep thier weapon systems offline, when you power up, monitors in the system let confed know, and suddenly you are the target of insystem ships. New players can then start off trading or such in the civilized systems.. it makes death by jerks less likely

Tarran wrote:Thoughts on different portions of the multiplayer thread.

-=disconnection/drop=-
If you drop carrier/get disconnected, your ship goes into automatic pilot.. you can purchase different levels of automatic pilot..You start with the standard automatic pilot software.. it takes you to the nearest planet .. as ... snip

According to me, when a pilot gets disconnected in space, they sit there whatever if they disconnected on purpose or by accident. Their ships if they are flying starfighters they will stay there for 5 minutes. If their ships classes are larger than a fighter, say it should float a few distances to get it out of the way of the traffic.

-=Cloning/death in the VS universe=-
Steve jackson had an interesting way of doing the death and cloning thing.. you had to go to a city (or in the vs universe, a base) that had the paticular company that did the cloning, and update its memory for a given fee.

Well lets make the gameplay as simple as possible. I agree that players should be reconed after death however, it should not cost a hell of a lot of credits to recone a character. I mean it be instant to reclone a character.

-=capships/everyone owning the biggest ship possible=-
Somone mentioned that capships should only be avaliable to large factions/goverments, as if it were avaliable to any single player, everyone would gravitate to the largest ship possible. In the VS universe, 4 or 5 small, fast craft, can take out a capship.... snip

A capitalship or any giant ships should only be obtained if you are in a squad. Not by someone who happens to be rich. And I hope that in the future that I will not see everyone flying capital ships as being the end all be all ships in the long run.

-=player factions=-
A thought on player made factions. Players could be allowed to have a paticular insignia, which they might paint on thier ships.. also as a side thing, it would be cool if as a player, I could paint my ship whatever colour I wanted, designs, ect..
also, frequencies could be avaliable to players.. so a faction may use a paticular band, where they game may support a range of like 1 to 20000000. so a given faction may use band 19345.. and they can pick up software (at a cost) that includes encryptions and so forth, to keep thier frequency as secure from prying eyes or people that come across that band range by accident.

Actually, My idea of a vegastrike multiplayer upon player creation, you can choose what trace you want to be. Either aera, rlaan or human. You are not limited to your own faction ship but you can fly any type of ship as you like.. even be a traitor of your own faction.

-=Ship Creation=-
Someone mentioned the possibility of creating your own ship designs.. some thoughts on that.. depending on which race or VS faction you build your ship from (thier factory), depends on subtleties in the design.. so a custom ship built in a Rlaan factory is slightly modified to give it that buggish/organic look that you find on most thier ships. A custom ship built in the confed territories would be more blockish, ect.. and player made factions could have certian details in ships designed from them come up or pan out in the fabrication of custom ships.

I guess this is a bit too early to do that. I would just stick with the slot systems we have now with the defauly models.

-=The discussion of newbies and dying and so forth=-
Have players start off in the common lanes. like deep confed or such.. not on some edge system that is the target of every faction that passes by.. Deep confed may require players to keep thier weapon systems offline, when you power up, monitors in the system let confed know, and suddenly you are the target of insystem ships. New players can then start off trading or such in the civilized systems.. it makes death by jerks less likely

Gameplay wise, there should be some areas where experienced and veteran pilots gets punished severly for killing newbies. But if newbies wander out far from their home place, then theres no penalty for killing them. There should be three types of zones. One safe zone for rlaan pilots only, another safe zone for an aera only recruits and the last one for confed only recruits. The severe penalty should wear off when you progress your character.

Now here comes my idea when it comes to ship balance:
Light fighters should go faster then heavy fighters and advanced fighters but should not have much firepower or protection ratings.

Well lets make the gameplay as simple as possible. I agree that players should be reconed after death however, it should not cost a hell of a lot of credits to recone a character. I mean it be instant to reclone a character.

I had meant that first clone was free, and after that point you needed to purchase yours.

A capitalship or any giant ships should only be obtained if you are in a squad. Not by someone who happens to be rich. And I hope that in the future that I will not see everyone flying capital ships as being the end all be all ships in the long run.

Even being super rich, doesn't nessisarily mean that people will automatically gravitate towards the largest ship they can get thier hands on. Each size ship has its ups and downs. Driving around the universe in a cap ship just makes you a nice juicey target..

Actually, My idea of a vegastrike multiplayer upon player creation, you can choose what trace you want to be. Either aera, rlaan or human. You are not limited to your own faction ship but you can fly any type of ship as you like.. even be a traitor of your own faction.

When I think of player factions, I think of them created later in the game, not something someone starts off with.

Oh you are right.

Lets make death mean something where it should take a long time to get back to normal instead of the same old usual space quake junkie style of combat where you die, requip and comback into space in an instant. I favor the bigger risks of PvP.

But how about for newbies who die a lot because of their stupid mistakes?

Guest wrote:Oh you are right.

Lets make death mean something where it should take a long time to get back to normal instead of the same old usual space quake junkie style of combat where you die, requip and comback into space in an instant. I favor the bigger risks of PvP.

But how about for newbies who die a lot because of their stupid mistakes?

Let's make death mean something where it's final. One life, that's it.

Clones, imo, are way too cliche to even be considered. Besides, with a better implementation of the escape pod (i.e. player-controlled, with a better chance of survival) there will be less death -- and less "fight to the death" combat with a few changes I hope get implemented.

And don't knock it until you've tried it. There's a lot of room for living in a game where death is final, so long as death isn't too easily reached.

@Tarran: The term "factions" refers to any in-game association. It's one that's been used in these style of games for a long time, and in the case of VS, it's not the best one. When you start the game, you're not a member of a faction (and can never join one, either, at this point), but you have a relational standing with every faction. Player-created factions will come later, too.

Indeed, there's nothing as involving and immersive as a good hard-core game. When death is final one tends to take the game really seriously. You don't just "try" this or that weapon or strategy; you read specs carefully, ask other players about their good or bad experiences, make informed choices.

In a hard-core Vegastrike multiplayer, haulers would network and plan convoy trips, for mutual protection. Hunters would also network into flight groups with specialized roles among them, and would advertise their services to other players, and would study a mission proposal carefully before even discussing price.

Cool. Why not make it configurable though?

hurleybird wrote:Cool. Why not make it configurable though?

Make what configurable? If you mean a "death toggle", what's the point? Single-player has save-games, so if you die, just load up your last save. Multiplayer, though -- it's all or nothing.

@chuck: You're right about networking. At the very least, this is where hiring wingmen would be necessary. This is also where the ability to join a guild/faction/whatever would come in handy -- you don't necessarily have to pay for the escorts or companions.

I meant configurable as a server option, not as a player option. Thus some servers would be respawn server while others would be iron man.

Or, rather than a server option, here's another idea I've mentioned before: Arcades in-game. You can die and restart, play deatmatch against other players, or pay 50 creds per hour for a realistic simulation to practise before a trip or mission. As long as it's in the context of playing a game within the game, so it doesn't rob the main game of its depth and continuity.

I think most players would spend most of the time playing arcades or practising on the simulators, and that is perfect. In fact, it allows you to hone your fighting skills without risking death all the time. But you'd have to do real missions to make money to support your arcade addiction, of course, not to speak of upgrading your ship

Chuck and Coffee, unfortunantly, most people don't think like you guys

The majority of gamers will not want to play iron man, and even then, an ironman mmog would need some really awesome (starcraft-like) game balance to work. As a server option, sure it's fine. As the only game mode though... well... it just wouldn't work.

I'd play Ironman. It'd need to be considerably harder to get yourself killed, though, for it to be viable. Right now, simple bad luck in the random spawning generation means certain death, and with the low-level ships it happens a lot.


What I'm thinking is, eliminate the enemybots entirely except for on the very fringes of space, make most occupied areas all-player. Allow PVPing, but install a police force of server GMs and GM-controlled bots who have all the good weapons (like capships) and who will hunt you down and rend you if you shoot down another player unless you are very, very sneaky about it (as in nobody but maybe the corpse sees who did it, so it doesn't get auto-reported), or have a whole hell of a lot of allies backing you up- enough that you can survive a fight with the most powerful army in the game.

Thus, petty piracy and l33t kiddie PKing are rendered unviable as the low-level scum and newbie-hunters are exterminated, but there's a framework to allow larger-scale guild warfare and such. And it feels real and unforced- it's basically like real life, where only the quick and the rich can afford to get away with committing serious crimes.