Commercial OS MMO Ryzom - A peak into the code
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Commercial OS MMO Ryzom - A peak into the code
There are several MMO projects on the net that can probably help us with understanding the full nature of how our own mmo should work. From networking to saving character data. If you know of any that are not listed bellow please post a link to it and what it is a clone of or if is a completly new project.
Commercial open source:
Ryzom
World of Warcraft clones:
Mangos
Trinity (mangos fork)
Ascent
Arcemu
Eve clones:
Evemu
I will dig up the links for the above later. All of then I have setup to keep svn updated with code changes.
Commercial open source:
Ryzom
World of Warcraft clones:
Mangos
Trinity (mangos fork)
Ascent
Arcemu
Eve clones:
Evemu
I will dig up the links for the above later. All of then I have setup to keep svn updated with code changes.
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Re: Commercial OS MMO Ryzom - A peak into the code
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Re: Commercial OS MMO Ryzom - A peak into the code
Sirikata is the project that hellcatv and ace123 are current working on and there are also plans for backporting to vegastrike, be site that thate is also plane to port vegastrike to webgl (suport in Mozilla Firefox 4/Google Chrome).
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Re: Commercial OS MMO Ryzom - A peak into the code
the problem with webgl is that currently IE does not support it and the majority of VS downloaders use windows (though what percent use firefox over IE I have no idea). While Sirikata may be viable im more interested in adapting the vs codebase to use better client/server code than back-porting to another engine.
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Re: Commercial OS MMO Ryzom - A peak into the code
Browser Usage.pheonixstorm wrote:the problem with webgl is that currently IE does not support it and the majority of VS downloaders use windows (though what percent use firefox over IE I have no idea).
Looks like IE is in a steady decline, losing ~10% of the browser user base per year, but it will still take 5 years for this to kill the program if, microsoft can't stop the bleeding. In that time though they might support this WebGL anyway.
Either way though, isn't this only relevant if VS was turned into a browser game? Given it's size, that seems like it might be problematic.
That's actually mostly why I brought up Sirikata though- as example code. It appears to be a project mainly focused on advanced net code and it is open source; these two things probably make it, along with Ryzom, your best references.While Sirikata may be viable im more interested in adapting the vs codebase to use better client/server code than back-porting to another engine.
Though if making VS an MMO is a personal goal that you are really interested seeing done, then you might consider porting over, since you'd get OGRE and their net code at once. But if your goal is to enhance small scale, non persistent multiplayer like death match or coop play, and/or maybe just lay the initial foundation for an MMO, then sticking with the existing VS code base could be the better option.
But as an example with source code, it might help either way is what I mean.
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Re: Commercial OS MMO Ryzom - A peak into the code
I've not seen a browser/WebGL app that is anything more impressive than on my mobile phone. This "everything in the browser" model is IMHO a big industry mistake.
You won't be able to recreate VS in WebGL to any comparable level of detail until computers triple in performance.
You won't be able to recreate VS in WebGL to any comparable level of detail until computers triple in performance.
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Re: Commercial OS MMO Ryzom - A peak into the code
I totally agree.
Though, in one of their demo videos, they opened a web browser from inside their demo virtual world. So maybe the webgl is actually used for the opposite situation-- the game doesn't run in a browser, the browser runs in a game.
But either way, the webgl code is useless to VS, IMO. The stuff to look at is the MMO / Virtual World / Persistent Universe networking code.
Though, in one of their demo videos, they opened a web browser from inside their demo virtual world. So maybe the webgl is actually used for the opposite situation-- the game doesn't run in a browser, the browser runs in a game.
But either way, the webgl code is useless to VS, IMO. The stuff to look at is the MMO / Virtual World / Persistent Universe networking code.
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Re: Commercial OS MMO Ryzom - A peak into the code
Eve actually has an in game web browser. The prefect thing for checking the vegastrike forums while mining lol
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Re: Commercial OS MMO Ryzom - A peak into the code
http://RunUO.com : opensource ultima-online server used on most freeshards
(community made servers where you can play without paying as you'd have to on the official servers, the "trial-version" of the uo-client from uo.com is fully functional on freeshards )
they seem to be working on their website,
2.1 release : http://runuo.com/community/threads/runu ... ed.455764/
ultima online is one of the oldest mmo's out there, but still quite a bunch of people play, "UOGamers: Hybrid" freeshard has about 800-1000 people online at all times :
http://www.uogamers.com/status/
in game web browser : also possible in ogre, see gui "navi" :
http://www.ogre3d.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=32384
this has nothing to do with webgl btw.
in-game web-browser = displaying website using the ingame gui-system
webgl = a standardized way to displaying 3d stuff on web-sites without need for plugins in the upcoming versions of firefox,chrome,opera and safari.
(community made servers where you can play without paying as you'd have to on the official servers, the "trial-version" of the uo-client from uo.com is fully functional on freeshards )
they seem to be working on their website,
2.1 release : http://runuo.com/community/threads/runu ... ed.455764/
ultima online is one of the oldest mmo's out there, but still quite a bunch of people play, "UOGamers: Hybrid" freeshard has about 800-1000 people online at all times :
http://www.uogamers.com/status/
in game web browser : also possible in ogre, see gui "navi" :
http://www.ogre3d.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=32384
this has nothing to do with webgl btw.
in-game web-browser = displaying website using the ingame gui-system
webgl = a standardized way to displaying 3d stuff on web-sites without need for plugins in the upcoming versions of firefox,chrome,opera and safari.
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Re: Commercial OS MMO Ryzom - A peak into the code
I actually found some networking code Raknet. Its supposed to be able to handle mmo sized code as well as voice chat for games. Free for indie use provided soemthing or another.. havent read up too much on it yet but I will.
There is also HawkNL and GNE I think both also have the ability to add in voice chat though im only sure on Hawk. What little I did read I did not see anything about handling mmo size client/server relationships.
Since vserver is rather apt at deathmatch I still think we should split the mmo code out but the real question how much do we code ourselves and how much do we incorporate other gpl code in. VS (engine) uses very little outside code which is good. It makes it easier to sell VS w/o worrying about a lot of other lisences. Which would also make it easier to get a real host for the mmo/website as well as funding getting klauss a shiny windows machine and breese or myself a nice shiny mac so someon can FINALLY get the mac binary running oh, and let us not forget about hiring an artist to spruce up some of the unfinished ships in that big long list we have...
Anyway, for now its just an idea. The biggest challenge is going to be keeping 3 clients from deviating from the current netowkring structure so that they all talk together w/o any issues.
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edit from www2: i heft fix a url tag
There is also HawkNL and GNE I think both also have the ability to add in voice chat though im only sure on Hawk. What little I did read I did not see anything about handling mmo size client/server relationships.
Since vserver is rather apt at deathmatch I still think we should split the mmo code out but the real question how much do we code ourselves and how much do we incorporate other gpl code in. VS (engine) uses very little outside code which is good. It makes it easier to sell VS w/o worrying about a lot of other lisences. Which would also make it easier to get a real host for the mmo/website as well as funding getting klauss a shiny windows machine and breese or myself a nice shiny mac so someon can FINALLY get the mac binary running oh, and let us not forget about hiring an artist to spruce up some of the unfinished ships in that big long list we have...
Anyway, for now its just an idea. The biggest challenge is going to be keeping 3 clients from deviating from the current netowkring structure so that they all talk together w/o any issues.
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edit from www2: i heft fix a url tag
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Re: Commercial OS MMO Ryzom - A peak into the code
First Raknet heft current a lisents isue with the gpl.
But we can the ideas that Raknet use.
Second Ace want to use openid as a secont login type.
And i hef also a idea that we use ssl certificate as a secendery login (note your need a username/password or a openid account for cheans the settings)
And for the devents of webgl we use webgl for a in browser is more like a dume client (for playing in the office or school if not a BOFH block the acces to the game) with a small subset of the game (basic phisic/input/outeput rendering and the netcode) than the full game.
And don't forgote planeshift.
But we can the ideas that Raknet use.
Second Ace want to use openid as a secont login type.
And i hef also a idea that we use ssl certificate as a secendery login (note your need a username/password or a openid account for cheans the settings)
And for the devents of webgl we use webgl for a in browser is more like a dume client (for playing in the office or school if not a BOFH block the acces to the game) with a small subset of the game (basic phisic/input/outeput rendering and the netcode) than the full game.
And don't forgote planeshift.
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Re: Commercial OS MMO Ryzom - A peak into the code
I know it's not space-based but Worldforge has to have some relevant code in it for the MMO/networking side of things.
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Re: Commercial OS MMO Ryzom - A peak into the code
Planshift and worldforge I forgot about though I havent looked at either of them.
Except for web based logings in not sure about using SSL for the game. For a login server.. maybe though if we encrypt the client/server traffic we may just want to create our own encryption method instead of using another one. The more we keep the code custom built the less we have to worry about an outside modules GPL. Though in the end it doesnt really matter I guess.
Except for web based logings in not sure about using SSL for the game. For a login server.. maybe though if we encrypt the client/server traffic we may just want to create our own encryption method instead of using another one. The more we keep the code custom built the less we have to worry about an outside modules GPL. Though in the end it doesnt really matter I guess.
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Re: Commercial OS MMO Ryzom - A peak into the code
This is completely OT, but because I maintain Berkelium which is an open source (and more-updated) version of that IGB library, I'll mention it briefly. It's really easy to integrate into OpenGL-based apps, but takes a bit of time to package it correctly in the application for all platforms. If there's interest, I would be willing to integrate an IGB in vegastrike, but this conversation belongs in a different thread.ghoulsblade2 wrote:in game web browser : also possible in ogre, see gui "navi" :
http://www.ogre3d.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=32384
this has nothing to do with webgl btw.
in-game web-browser = displaying website using the ingame gui-system
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Re: Commercial OS MMO Ryzom - A peak into the code
Using an MMO engine is not something that can happen overnight. The content might not be so hard, but all the game logic is tricky. The only reason the server we have now works at all, is because the game logic could be shared somewhat between client and server. Using a MMO system from scratch will make such code reuse practically impossible (and plus, a lot of this code is really ugly and hard to understand--getting things right without a redesign would be practically impossible
The idea is that if we had assets converted to COLLADA (because it's a standard and easy to convert from) and ported some of the vegastrike-specific parts of the scripts, it may be possible to use Vega Strike content in a platform like Sirikata.
Let's not get off topic: the WebGL that www2 mentioned is just for an *alternative* client--there's no reason VS would have to support that--it's just an added benefit of using standardized mesh formats and a platform with game logic separated out.
Some people might enjoy the ability to view the Vega Strike universe at 1FPS on their android phones or pop open a browser on a friend's computer and play VS, but I agree that the featureful client is and will always be a client side program (unless Javascript gets radically faster in the next decade).
Sirikata is a platform, with a specific server architecture. The protocol files work on many programming languages, and there's no particular reason that you can't have clients in different languages. Most of the research work is being done with the C++ client. Sirikata's client actually has scripting environments in Mono (including IronPython) and Emerson, a new language similar to javascript.www2 wrote:Sirikata is the project that hellcatv and ace123 are current working on and there are also plans for backporting to vegastrike, be site that thate is also plane to port vegastrike to webgl
The idea is that if we had assets converted to COLLADA (because it's a standard and easy to convert from) and ported some of the vegastrike-specific parts of the scripts, it may be possible to use Vega Strike content in a platform like Sirikata.
Let's not get off topic: the WebGL that www2 mentioned is just for an *alternative* client--there's no reason VS would have to support that--it's just an added benefit of using standardized mesh formats and a platform with game logic separated out.
Some people might enjoy the ability to view the Vega Strike universe at 1FPS on their android phones or pop open a browser on a friend's computer and play VS, but I agree that the featureful client is and will always be a client side program (unless Javascript gets radically faster in the next decade).
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Re: Commercial OS MMO Ryzom - A peak into the code
i've been playing around with webgl myself on an unrelated project lately, please keep me posted or contact me directly if there's something happening in that regard, i might be able to help out =)