Property Market

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oddeyed
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Property Market

Post by oddeyed »

Hello.

I think it would be cool to be able to buy space stations. Once your cash levels get really high (or maybe you start off owning one, I'm not too sure on which is better), I think you should be able to buy mining stations, or just general bases in space and other characters dock at them, buy stuff there, refuel etc. It would be cool if you could get a small cut from each purchase there, and even more realistic if you had to pay for staff and maintanance. Once it starts being successful, you could buy/open new ones and start chains, or get into a whole business world, dealing in weapons, or maybe a 'space hotel' to stay the night. And you could choose which factions to serve to change how well you get on with them, or could start serving pirates and get in trouble with the police/confed.

I think it would be a cool addition to the game, and also if you could do it in-ship, it would be something to do while SPECing to somewhere far away, or waiting for something.

Feel free to offer improvements to the idea.

Thanks very much.

-oddeyed.
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Re: Property Market

Post by oddeyed »

AHH THE IDIOCY. I meant to post this in suggestions but I did it in the wrong browser tab. Can someone move it please? :oops:

I feel very stupid.
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Re: Property Market

Post by loki1950 »

Welcome oddeyed do you think this a more appropriate place and i think that their may even be a few player who would like to player the police/confed. but on a budget then there's the militia and bounty hunters now to support all this
have a look and this thread.

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oddeyed
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Re: Property Market

Post by oddeyed »

I should have said move it to the Feature Request section, I don't think it really fits in this section.

Yeah, I guess some people would like to play as the police or confed. But that thread isn't really the same. I was thinking more of selling and buying space stations, that thread seems to be more about buying and selling commodities. But maybe property could be integrated, I'll post in there. I'm not too sure though, seems that thread is VERY programmer oriented, I know very little about that stuff. :wink:
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Re: Property Market

Post by loki1950 »

If it can be bought it's part off an economy as i said it's there to support all the activity that players want to get into and it also means that the warring factions have to actually have the resources to continue run out of a particular raw material and the fleets can't be built or the stations for the logistics and for ambitious players/clans so you see how it fits.And the first thing that has to be done is a model of it in code will hooks into it an API that means an Application Program Interface a way for an other programmer to use that code.

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Re: Property Market

Post by athomic1 »

Given that we already have the automated factories you can buy and sell in a lot of trade centers, it WOULD be kind of cool if you could actually deploy them, instead of just schlep them from place to place. In fact, there's a few other commodities that would be really cool to USE as well as transport. It would certainly make xenoforming tools more interesting.

That does add a whole new level of complexity, though.
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Re: Property Market

Post by MC707 »

athomic1 wrote:Given that we already have the automated factories you can buy and sell in a lot of trade centers, it WOULD be kind of cool if you could actually deploy them, instead of just schlep them from place to place. In fact, there's a few other commodities that would be really cool to USE as well as transport. It would certainly make xenoforming tools more interesting.
that sounds interesting, I never thought about that. I wonder if it is possible, though.
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Re: Property Market

Post by athomic1 »

MC707 wrote:that sounds interesting, I never thought about that. I wonder if it is possible, though.
If you're asking whether the game supports any of that now, I really don't think so. I'm sure we'd be hearing a lot more about it if we could. As for whether it could be added, well... like I said, it's a whole new layer, really. Someone would have to figure out how it would all work.

I'd actually thought about bases as a ship type. If you think about it, it wouldn't be hard to define such a thing. Bases act a lot like ships without engines already. Most of them are shielded, and at least some carry turreted weapons. Even docking points aren't a distinction. Most ships support that, even small ones. I really see no reason you couldn't add a base to the list of available ships, buy one and "pilot" it.

Be boring as hell, though...
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Re: Property Market

Post by MC707 »

athomic1 wrote:If you're asking whether the game supports any of that now, I really don't think so. I'm sure we'd be hearing a lot more about it if we could. As for whether it could be added, well... like I said, it's a whole new layer, really. Someone would have to figure out how it would all work.
Of course I know it is currently not supported. I was wondering if it could be added.
athomic1 wrote:I'd actually thought about bases as a ship type. If you think about it, it wouldn't be hard to define such a thing. Bases act a lot like ships without engines already. Most of them are shielded, and at least some carry turreted weapons. Even docking points aren't a distinction. Most ships support that, even small ones. I really see no reason you couldn't add a base to the list of available ships, buy one and "pilot" it.
Definitely. What you say is correct. Now I wonder a some sort of orbit system could be implemented so they could orbit a planet or even a star. It appears (unfortunately,) they have a fixed position in space.
athomic1 wrote:Be boring as hell, though...
probably.
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Re: Property Market

Post by loki1950 »

That fixed position is an orbit geosynchronous think about all those comm satellites and it can be specified in the .system files which are XML definitions of that system.

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Re: Property Market

Post by MC707 »

loki1950 wrote:That fixed position is an orbit geosynchronous think about all those comm satellites and it can be specified in the .system files which are XML definitions of that system.
I see. But something I'm pretty sure is planets don't move in orbit around the star(s) in the system (or do they?)
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Re: Property Market

Post by loki1950 »

They do but you have to really accelerate the game time to actually see them move and moons orbit planets.

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Re: Property Market

Post by MC707 »

loki1950 wrote:They do but you have to really accelerate the game time to actually see them move and moons orbit planets.
They REALLY do??? hehe this engine is better than I thought. hats down ladies and gentlemen :mrgreen:
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Re: Property Market

Post by loki1950 »

Just a reminder that the engine is a space flight simulator more that just a game :mrgreen: the game aspects are mostly done data side with Python.

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Re: Property Market

Post by MC707 »

loki1950 wrote:Just a reminder that the engine is a space flight simulator more that just a game :mrgreen: the game aspects are mostly done data side with Python.
Yep, I just realized that now :lol:

hey, so the game aspects are mostly done with python... so engine side is done with c++? I am planning on learning both c and his small brother
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Re: Property Market

Post by loki1950 »

MC707 wrote:so engine side is done with c++? I am planning on learning both c and his small brother
C is the little brother while C++ is more a big sister :wink: and yes the engine is coded in C++ with several Python functions built in to provide hook for the external Python scripts data side.

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Re: Property Market

Post by Greekgifted »

MC707 wrote:
loki1950 wrote:They do but you have to really accelerate the game time to actually see them move and moons orbit planets.
They REALLY do??? hehe this engine is better than I thought. hats down ladies and gentlemen :mrgreen:
You don't have to accelerate the game to see them move, just input the predefined Sol system into a deathmatch game and the stations around Earth move at quite the uneven clip :P
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Re: Property Market

Post by MC707 »

loki1950 wrote:
MC707 wrote:so engine side is done with c++? I am planning on learning both c and his small brother
C is the little brother while C++ is more a big sister :wink: and yes the engine is coded in C++ with several Python functions built in to provide hook for the external Python scripts data side.
I thought C was bigger since C++ is an extension of C, and it is nearly impossible to learn C++ without learning C first.
Greekgifted wrote:
MC707 wrote:
loki1950 wrote:They do but you have to really accelerate the game time to actually see them move and moons orbit planets.
They REALLY do??? hehe this engine is better than I thought. hats down ladies and gentlemen :mrgreen:
You don't have to accelerate the game to see them move, just input the predefined Sol system into a deathmatch game and the stations around Earth move at quite the uneven clip :P
If I knew how to do that :P

but hey, I just thought something. we wouldn't notice planets because of the size (especially in cephid) of the orbits, but stations should move a lot more, especially on planets that have fast rotation periods.
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Re: Property Market

Post by oddeyed »

MC707 wrote:
athomic1 wrote:Be boring as hell, though...
probably.
Being in the station itself, rolling around the nearest star, using a turret against whatever trouble comes your way - that would be damn boring.

I personally was thinking of this more in the style of Monopoly - you buy and sell property and utilities (stations and mining bases etc in VS), people pay rent when they're on your property (base in VS), they pay more if you have more houses (more items to trade and more ships for sale in VS), you get a chance card that tells you to pay to make repairs (you're ship gets attacked and you need to pay to make repairs in VS). Meanwhile, (in VS not Monopoly) you can visit any of these ships at any time, but you interact with the actual buying and selling though a different interface where you select stations already there to buy, or maybe build your own. The same way that you play Monopoly on a board, not by actually going to Mayfair and buying it. In theory you never have to actually go to any stations or bases you buy.
loki1950 wrote:That fixed position is an orbit geosynchronous think about all those comm satellites and it can be specified in the .system files which are XML definitions of that system.
So if the station was just dropped in a system, by writing it into the .system file, it would automatically orbit the star, and just... sit there.

So, in theory, all that would need to be done to make your own station is buy a ship, move it into orbit of the star, and leave it there. Obviously the whole buying stations as ships and leaving ships in space part would need to be written in. The only other thing that would have to happen is make other ships dock at it and have it recognised as a station and not a ship - how many times have random ships ever docked with you?

Loads of people would find this boring, but as an optional game element, I think it could add an element of depth.

All the best, oddeyed.
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Re: Property Market

Post by Creamuur »

I like the idea of owning property. There could/should be various types as there are various needs/wants out there. Hospitality, Entertainment, Trading, the options are endless.

Instead of sitting around your lonesome star-base, waiting for merchants to come take a look at your stock, you store items in special cupboards, and have an automated selling system. Set the price for each item you wish to sell, and anyone who stops by can just browse your catalog. Like shopping online, only it's in a locker, not in China.

On that note, the idea behind mass production and trading is also worth looking into. Think about Futurama, Planet Express more specifically. You start up a trading post/station in space, you hire automated drones/workers to go out and find you certain products below certain prices, they come back, and go do it again. You take your new found products, go to your factory, or someone else's, and turn those products into goods. Then you do the same process as you started with, but in reverse. Now you have your workers go out and sell your finished products at a user determined minimum price. This would help keep consistency, and for online players, it allows them to exploit a particular market for money-over-time. Instead of shipping AI parts, why not make them and THEN sell them? I also commented on another thread, but the idea of buying factory parts would be pretty cool as well, collect all the parts over time and you can build a small factory or something. Keep collecting parts and expanding to increase your influence. That being said, I also want to reference Star Wars in saying that gas mining should also be considered. Look at Bespin, it sits on a gas giant as the atmosphere below is much denser and the up-current from the inner-planet's heat systems force air up. They use these forces to extract certain gases from the planet and that could be the biggest and most abundant sources of gases in any universe.

Onto the topic of hospitality, we all need to rest and refuel. There are plenty of relay points, medical centers and planets, but there's nothing to really do. Maybe incorporate a casino on larger, more populace planets? Allow users to interact in an open-market where users can trade items and info in real time. Maybe have a club or bar where you can find and spend time with a flight crew? Tho there are no sleep and food needs, it does't hurt to stop in for a drink, and each time a user stops at one of your locations, you get a small percentage of the income (rental/maintenance fees?).

Perhaps a more in-depth expansion should be worked on, one that's geared towards merchants/business people. This expansion could include planetary info like major importing/exporting stats, planet/station type (business, rural, any combinations), and a more defined system for moving products around. I get that the game is mostly trial and error, but each mine should produce more of one ting than others, and factories should focus on a particular line of products. Each planet/station goes thru specific things, like air is important to space facilities, but not to planets, maybe you could trade commodities between the two. And one final idea, the idea of employment, where as you are the employer, should be considered as well. How awesome would it be to go around fighting in the war, while having some bots or workers moving your products around for you, self funded wars anyone? Wars are good for business. This also opens the world up to corruption, but for online play, users should have flight crew defined factions. To join a side is to work for someone or something, or towards a main goal.

Anyway, just some ideas. Lovin the game tho.
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Re: Property Market

Post by IansterGuy »

Since the game is open ended, the social aspect in multiplayer may be more important than the single player game play of adding things like this. Especially during any development because the players are the developers. AI is hard to program, but players don't needs any programing at all. Since humans players do need the interfaces anyways, it may make more sense for players instead of AI, to work together with other players and actually go on most of the missions. This should be satisfying at least until someone programed the interfaces enough that things could start to be done remotely.

Since people are more interesting than numbers for the most part and this is first and foremost an action game, setting it up to do the missions oneself would be the first step think. Some of the foundation steps to make an advanced macro style game play a reality would also require improvements to the basic economy system likely.

One thing I would like to note is that the game would need to get harder not easier as one expands their influence. So that the better the player is the more they can extend influence, but stop working and the empire should crumble and go back to it's natural state

I think though that these are advanced thoughts about distant features of a persistent universe.
Last edited by IansterGuy on Sat May 25, 2013 4:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Property Market

Post by TBeholder »

Just something that came up in brainstorming of what "MMO Elite" should do in another forum.
To handle property and account any better than trade/mission bounty game, there should be political/economical entity layer. It can be either individual player (PC or NPC) or organization.
In the latter case, factions are too big. Proper handling needs some mechanics generic and flexible enough to cover typical cases - asteroid-mining firm, mercenary company, mafia clan, trade house, pirate band, assassin guild, anything like this. For now, we may leave aside the second level of organization (consortium/branch/cell).
My thought was: the most straightforward way to handle it is a status/rank system; leave text patterns to players, or pick a template - be it "CEO"/"Manager"/"Merchant" or "Papa"/"Abbot"/"Friar" or "King"/"Duke"/"Baron" or whatever. They are handled via rights-control list - who can use closed communication channels, set prices at shops, set/drop docking restrictions, enlist/promote/fire members, post notices/missions, etc. Secret societies obviously should handle it in a more discreet and compartmentalized way than hippies, but it's just plain ACL setup and a few extras. Generic templates can go a long way here too, obviously.
Members of an organization hopefully can get at very least some resource pooling, but also acquire its enemies. There probably should be some visibility filter mechanics for secret organizations (e.g. Confed military from rank X can identify their local spies as such).

VS-wise, station interface may help to wrap it by allowing/disallowing access to rooms with specific interfaces (remember those doors guarded by heavy exosuit troopers in the background? ;) like this). Basically, general public may have access to sections with dock, repair and refuel, basic products / resources shop, and main missions screen. Members may enter the part where they may buy ships, advanced weapons at discount price, get secret missions, etc. Managers also get to enter another one and poke the interfaces which set those prices and missions.
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