Difference between Remake and the current Gemini Gold?
-
- Explorer
- Posts: 15
- Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2006 3:59 am
Difference between Remake and the current Gemini Gold?
Gemini Gold's lead developer seemed touchy when I mentioned I don't like the GG interface, so I thought I'd ask here. Though I realize I probably won't get a fully neutral answer here either, given the apparent animosity between Remake and GG people.
Anyway, given that:
1) I hate the Gemini Gold interface
2) I don't care much about better graphics
3) I don't care much about extra fan content
what are besides those points the differences between GG and Remake?
Which one has least bugs, is best balanced, has the toughest AI? Can GG use wingmen (they disappear in Remake after loading a savefile)?
Anyway, given that:
1) I hate the Gemini Gold interface
2) I don't care much about better graphics
3) I don't care much about extra fan content
what are besides those points the differences between GG and Remake?
Which one has least bugs, is best balanced, has the toughest AI? Can GG use wingmen (they disappear in Remake after loading a savefile)?
-
- Elite Hunter
- Posts: 1149
- Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2006 3:56 pm
- Location: Black Forest, Germany
...which we don't have, but GGI hate the Gemini Gold interface
...which we don't have, but GGI don't care much about better graphics
...which we have, but GG notI don't care much about extra fan content
Overall, you mentioned them above. PR is a bit more of freedom. You can fly any ship you'll ever encounter in space, sooner or later. We have a turret AI (you don't have to sit in your turret and fire it manually), we have the dev AWACS campaign, and we have a quite active modding scene - adding even more WC ships to choose from, as well as weapons, and more storylines. Without sacrificing any content original Privateer had. Plus, PR is more balanced then GG - I've read many comments about the missions being hard to impossible in GG.what are besides those points the differences between GG and Remake?
I'd say GG has the more advanced SVN, and fewer bugs, but both games are playable w/o trouble, bugs are of minor appearance in PR.Which one has least bugs
PR. Definetively.is best balanced
The AI is the same. GG is said to be much harder, though.has the toughest AI?
GG only has the militia wingmen in the last Palan mission. Remake has them also at other points, even to hire them at mission computers. Ships usually disappear when you load a game - that's the engine's "cleanup" function so that we don't have an overcrowded universe. Despite of that, wingmen are only supposed to fly under your command for one single mission.Can GG use wingmen (they disappear in Remake after loading a savefile)?
Despite of you're not caring about extra fan content, I'd also suggest to download PU1.1b6-DSE from my signature below. It's for the Remake, runs stable, adds a lot and doesn't take away anything.
-
- Expert Mercenary
- Posts: 808
- Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2005 4:42 am
Incidentally - download link here:
http://pu.wcjunction.com/downloads.html
The new basemod will be available from this page as well when it comes out.
http://pu.wcjunction.com/downloads.html
The new basemod will be available from this page as well when it comes out.
-
- Explorer
- Posts: 15
- Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2006 3:59 am
I liked the AWACS campaign, and if GG doesn't have a turret AI that speaks heavily in favour of Remake, but I'm a bit worried new ships and weapons might unbalance the game. Then again, I've only ever used lasers and tachyon bolts (and IIRC perhaps fusion guns), and you can play the entire campaign in your Centurion, so I can always try out if the new stuff offers some more variety in choices.Dilloh wrote:We have a turret AI (you don't have to sit in your turret and fire it manually), we have the dev AWACS campaign, and we have a quite active modding scene - adding even more WC ships to choose from, as well as weapons, and more storylines.
To threadjack my own thread btw... I've recently tried out a Galaxy. It has two turrets - I placed laser turrets on both of them - but only one of the turrets works. Am I doing something wrong, or is this a known problem?
GG only has the militia wingmen in the last Palan mission. Remake has them also at other points, even to hire them at mission computers. Ships usually disappear when you load a game - that's the engine's "cleanup" function so that we don't have an overcrowded universe. Despite of that, wingmen are only supposed to fly under your command for one single mission.[/quote]Can GG use wingmen (they disappear in Remake after loading a savefile)?
Ah didn't know that. Is it intended then wingmen are only useful for Clean Sweep missions? (Using them for any other mission would make you lose money.)
Thanks. I've downloaded it.Despite of you're not caring about extra fan content, I'd also suggest to download PU1.1b6-DSE from my signature below. It's for the Remake, runs stable, adds a lot and doesn't take away anything.
-
- Elite Hunter
- Posts: 1149
- Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2006 3:56 pm
- Location: Black Forest, Germany
Yeah, those things can happen, that's why z30 will revise the Galaxy Gunship. The mod began with adding ships, but we always collect experiences to rebalance them. This relies heavily on feedback - that's where guys like you come inI'm a bit worried new ships and weapons might unbalance the game.
Don't worry: Lasers, Tachs and Fusions are still the Nr. 1 guns in the game. As I said: We're trying to add, not to replace. So if we decided to create a new gun with the damage of ten plasma guns, we'd certainly make it use 10x the energy of a plasma, and give it a 10x plasma fire delay, see?Then again, I've only ever used lasers and tachyon bolts (and IIRC perhaps fusion guns), and you can play the entire campaign in your Centurion, so I can always try out if the new stuff offers some more variety in choices.
You either were flying through a "blind" angel of your second turret, or you bought the second turret and therefor "overwrited" the first one - scratching it. Note that a list will pop up whenever you buy guns, warheads or turrets. You need to click carefully at an empty entry.To threadjack my own thread btw... I've recently tried out a Galaxy. It has two turrets - I placed laser turrets on both of them - but only one of the turrets works. Am I doing something wrong, or is this a known problem?
You can also switch to an external camera (F6 I think?) and check out if your ship has two turrets mounted.
Use wingmen for what you like, they will also follow you through jump points. You only pay them once. If you don't have the money, they might attack you. They will follow you until they are destroyed or until you save/load. The AI is a bit dumb however. Multiple wingmen tend to attack each other, or collide with you. Just try it out. Personally, I hire wingmen for the really hard missions like Palan, or if I want to clear my relations... I shoot them thenIs it intended then wingmen are only useful for Clean Sweep missions? (Using them for any other mission would make you lose money.)
-
- ISO Party Member
- Posts: 423
- Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2007 11:54 am
- Location: TX, USA
- Contact:
Re: Difference between Remake and the current Gemini Gold?
The GG project is designed to replicate the original. It is a very simple concept that is apparently (1) hard to perfect and (2) hard for people to understand. Any touchiness or hostility that might exist in either forum arises from these two issues.M@ni@c wrote:Gemini Gold's lead developer seemed touchy when I mentioned I don't like the GG interface
...
given the apparent animosity between Remake and GG people.
Turbo
-
- Explorer
- Posts: 15
- Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2006 3:59 am
Actually I don't like the fact that of all the weapons present in the game there are only three good ones. I'm a mod designer myself (for Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri and Civilization IV), and one of my principles is that every option available in the game should add a meaningful choice. One good choice = no choice. So if I may give some unasked advise if I were modding WC:Privateer, I'd first try to make all the weapons already present in the game worth using under at least some situations, before adding any new ones. I think this is an example where trying to stick to the original doesn't create a good game.Dilloh wrote:Don't worry: Lasers, Tachs and Fusions are still the Nr. 1 guns in the game.
I don't believe that's the case, but I'll take some screenshots to make sure.You either were flying through a "blind" angel of your second turret, or you bought the second turret and therefor "overwrited" the first one - scratching it. Note that a list will pop up whenever you buy guns, warheads or turrets. You need to click carefully at an empty entry.
If you have multiple turrets, how is Ctrl-F1 supposed to work btw? First Ctrl-F1: switch to first turret; second Ctrl-F1: switch to second turret, third Ctrl-F1: switch back to cockpit?
I've tried out wingmen in the past, and found them and escorts the most frustrating feature of the game. I made a thread about it some months ago.Use wingmen for what you like, they will also follow you through jump points. You only pay them once. If you don't have the money, they might attack you. They will follow you until they are destroyed or until you save/load. The AI is a bit dumb however. Multiple wingmen tend to attack each other, or collide with you. Just try it out.
I've downloaded installed PRPU btw. I like it. Is there a changelog somewhere though? I've run in two situations where I didn't understand at first what the hell was going on. "AAAAH, my Centurion suddenly only has 13 instead of 16 equipment slots. My save file must have gotten corrupted!" or "I turn around, press hard on Afterburner and my speed decreases to zero? WTF!?!"
Had some sort of error while extracting the mod btw. It says the file mentioned in the screenshot is damaged.
Not true. GG wants to improve graphics for instance. So the choice what stuff to improve and for what stuff to replicate the original sometimes seems arbitrary to me.Turbo wrote:The GG project is designed to replicate the original.
-
- Elite Hunter
- Posts: 1149
- Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2006 3:56 pm
- Location: Black Forest, Germany
Sure. Talking about Civ, you have units like "Attack: 1 / Defend: 2 / Move: 2". In PR you can customize everything - the more choice you have, the more often you'll have guns which are similar. That's why I made the Fireblade and plan to make more milspec ships: To keep the balance. Those ships shall carry arms or shields which other ships don't have, and are not for sale as upgrade pieces.every option available in the game should add a meaningful choice.
Agreed, but that doesn't justify to take equipment out of the game. We have about a dozen of guns, most of them are crap. But that doesn't give me a hurt. There ARE guys prefering neutron guns. And I'm planning to lock all guns within campaigns, which means you can only start of with light guns. Then you'll fly to X, meet Y and fulfil mission Z to enable medium guns for sale. See? Like technology in Civ-Games.if I were modding WC:Privateer, I'd first try to make all the weapons already present in the game worth using under at least some situations, before adding any new ones. I think this is an example where trying to stick to the original doesn't create a good game.
Cannot think of anything else, but you could also post your savegame with your serialized_xml folder here.I don't believe that's the case, but I'll take some screenshots to make sure.
Don't know how it works on an US-Keyboard but yes, you'll cycle through your turrets and wingmen completely, and return to your cockpit afterwards.If you have multiple turrets, how is Ctrl-F1 supposed to work btw? First Ctrl-F1: switch to first turret; second Ctrl-F1: switch to second turret, third Ctrl-F1: switch back to cockpit?
z30 is working on a new AI. Wingmen might behave better in the futureI've tried out wingmen in the past, and found them and escorts the most frustrating feature of the game.
Thx!I've downloaded installed PRPU btw. I like it.
I made one for my changes, see changelog.txt within the archive.Is there a changelog somewhere though?
Not sure, I think z30 rebalanced it to make the other ships a better challenge.AAAAH, my Centurion suddenly only has 13 instead of 16 equipment slots.
That's inertia, physically correct. In space or in the water, where you have no or little gravity, inertia is the force keeping your current direction and speed, so you'll need a force pushing you into the other direction. It is also possible that z30 did some mass or MOI changes to make a more realistic movement.I turn around, press hard on Afterburner and my speed decreases to zero?
Hmm, I'm not exactly speaking dutch. The second error means "unexpected end of archive", right? Among with the CRC error, I think you had trouble while downloading the archive. I have the original file on my machine and it runs smooth. Check the filesize, should be 20022kb. If you don't have any trouble with it, you can use it.Had some sort of error while extracting the mod btw. It says the file mentioned in the screenshot is damaged.
-
- Explorer
- Posts: 15
- Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2006 3:59 am
I'm only an occasional tourist in the Privateer universe, so coudn't give any good stats right now, but I think it should be possible to make a dozen guns that still remain all useful even when they're all available.Dilloh wrote:Sure. Talking about Civ, you have units like "Attack: 1 / Defend: 2 / Move: 2". In PR you can customize everything - the more choice you have, the more often you'll have guns which are similar.
...
Agreed, but that doesn't justify to take equipment out of the game. We have about a dozen of guns, most of them are crap. But that doesn't give me a hurt.
Things affecting weapons are:
1) price
2) only available in certain bases
3) unlocked as the campaign progresses
4) can only be put on certain ships
5) damage
6) range
7) energy usage
refire delay
9) exit velocity
Price, base availability (eg only purchasable in Perry) and stuff being unlocked as the campaign progresses only work as a sufficient way to distinguish weapons in the early stages of the game. That still leaves six additional other stats to play with though. So eg it could be possible to make a weapon that excels in each of these stats, plus some hybrid combinations.
I've checked more thoroughly and I have two turrets after all. I got confused because Ctrl-F1 works like: Cockpit->turret1->Cockpit->turret2->Cockpit... which first gave me the impression there was only one turret.Cannot think of anything else, but you could also post your savegame with your serialized_xml folder here.
Yup I know - I just was confused at first. But I like it. It changes some tactics you have to use. It makes a "shelton slide" easier. Though I get the impression it makes it harder to shake off an enemy behind you. :scared:That's inertia, physically correct. In space or in the water, where you have no or little gravity, inertia is the force keeping your current direction and speed, so you'll need a force pushing you into the other direction.
Woops yeah, I somehow didn't download it all. Thanks.Hmm, I'm not exactly speaking dutch. The second error means "unexpected end of archive", right? Among with the CRC error, I think you had trouble while downloading the archive. I have the original file on my machine and it runs smooth. Check the filesize, should be 20022kb. If you don't have any trouble with it, you can use it.
-
- ISO Party Member
- Posts: 423
- Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2007 11:54 am
- Location: TX, USA
- Contact:
Yes, the graphics are improved starting with 1.02. In fact, I made the new repair droids and a few other items. But the "nice to have" features that weren't in the original game, even ones that were erroneously put in the manual like turret AI, won't be in GG. That's why there are two projects -- one for the purists and one for those who to play "outside the box." Heck, the original game did poorly in reviews because some of the missions were difficult, and GG replicates that. My hope is that they remain compatible so that improvements to one can, where applicable, aid the other.M@ni@c wrote:Not true. GG wants to improve graphics for instance. So the choice what stuff to improve and for what stuff to replicate the original sometimes seems arbitrary to me.Turbo wrote:The GG project is designed to replicate the original.
Turbo
-
- Expert Mercenary
- Posts: 808
- Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2005 4:42 am
These things probably fall into that category :Dilloh wrote:Okay, thanks for those suggestions for the weapons. Will think about it when it comes to revising weapons
* missile turn rates enhanced, they actually hit things now. Speed & ranges aligned with WC stats (except for proton torps - I wanted these to be faster)
* toned down the energy requirements of Neutron guns
We definitely have to consider tweaking other weapons after the beta test of he new basemod