PU brainstorming

Forum for discussing various mods for the VS-engine based upon Privateer. (Please play nice now, and extinguish all flaming materials.
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Postby Dilloh » Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:39 am

Kyle wrote:does it sound like something worth pursuing?
Not sure how difficult the changes to code are. This'd be the first thing to be solved but yeah, it would be a change that would also be useful in other terms.
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Postby micheal_andreas_stahl » Mon Jun 18, 2007 4:17 am

I'm trying to think up a game like that... Ummm. I know one but what's it's name.

I can't remember a name but i know what your talking about. I don't think it would be that easier to do, in fact i don't think it is possible. It would be inventing the wheel i bit too much.
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Postby Kyle003p » Mon Jun 18, 2007 10:14 am

Yeah, I can understand that, but one can still hope, right?
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Postby Kyle003p » Mon Jun 18, 2007 10:14 am

Yeah, I can understand that, but one can still hope, right?
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Postby Rezaele » Tue Jun 19, 2007 12:16 am

@Kyle003p

Your suggestion is plausible but that would entail delving into game engine like having a an option at the start of the game to pick your faction (example: militia, pirate, or privateer).

The closest I can think of achieving this is making a new campaign with missions/characters that pits you with or against Burrows (example: Burrows as a fixer or campaign trigger) which is almost similar to what the PU MOD team are trying to achieve with a faction based campaigns (i.e. militia and pirate plotline) except you are still Burrows.

Hopefully, the PU MOD team can get some C++ and Phython programmers with knowledge on the Vegastrike engine to join in in order for the Parallel Universe MOD to be more successful and be able to implement more gameplay enriching items.

BTW, thanks to the PU MOD team for their hard work!!!
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Postby Dilloh » Tue Jun 19, 2007 2:37 am

Yeah, I can understand that, but one can still hope, right?
:) sure...
BTW, thanks to the PU MOD team for their hard work!!!
Thank you, and thanks for the users for their patience with our numerous bugs :oops:
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Postby micheal_andreas_stahl » Tue Jun 19, 2007 5:45 am

Rezaele wrote:BTW, thanks to the PU MOD team for their hard work!!!
Dilloh wrote:Thank you, and thanks for the users for their patience with our numerous bugs Embarassed


And that's where i come in. :wink: I can do testing. I would like to.
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Postby Dilloh » Tue Jun 19, 2007 7:33 am

z30 will post a modbase soon - I'll fiddle in the stuff I have done until then and we'll do a release. Most likely a bit buggy, so you can have fun :wink:
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Postby Rezaele » Tue Jun 19, 2007 10:39 pm

hellcatv wrote:I think you guys really need to make a subversion repository for your mods--it'll make it easier for engine developers (like me) to make sure the latest version of vega strike DOES work on it :-) and it will make it possible for the mod to continue to make progress even if some of you need to take breaks...

the VS team is most certainly interested in making sure that all mods work with the top of tree vega strike--and even if they don't...we've made a tag on the last known "working" vega strike a few days ago... http://svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/vegas ... june_2007/

so ya--- test if that works with your mods...and if not, some of you should mail engine devleopers with a pared down list of critical bugs to fix...


Hi quoted the above post on another thread since I believe it's more appropriately discussed/pursued here.

Personally I do not have any technical knowledge on how this can be done for Privateer without the original Remake Dev team but as far as I read here both Chuck, Targ and Melonhead are already making inroads to the SVN in trying to implement stuff in.

Q: How hard will it be to update the Remake 1.2 to the current Vegastrike SVN version?
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Postby chuck_starchaser » Wed Jun 20, 2007 7:18 am

Well, there's two ways to go about it: Upgrade PR/PU to current SVN, or upgrade them to use the WCU SVN and then upgrade the WCU SVN to current VS SVN.

For the first road, the one I was trying to pursue, the first step would have been to get VS SVN to compile with VS the game, but I didn't even get that far, and Hellcat was helping me out before he left on a trip but the last compiling problem I had, with kb.cpp not compiling, he said that someone had messed up things in the main trunk and he had no time to fix it before leaving, so I'll just have to wait.

The other way is more attractive, though --the WCU way-- because Spirit had added a lot of new AI code to it for like commands and formations; plus it was based on a much more recent VS SVN to begin with; and the WCU data set also includes the whole map. Now, the rumor is that Spirit is currently in Italy but coming back in a couple of weeks, and with a plan. Not sure what her plan is; but so I'd say the best bet is to wait for her and Hellcat to be back and work with them.

So regardless which way we take, I'd say that in a couple of weeks, things are going to start to move again, on the code side of things. I can't wait, myself; --I have some code ready to test for armor configurations, and ideas for further improvements, like having multiplicative upgrades have multiplicative prices; an improvement to radar (silent mode), and IFF (decoupling the friend/foe attitude of pilots from the friend foe database and nav computer heuristics). But I can't test or commit anything before having a code base to modify, test against and commit to.
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Postby Kyle003p » Wed Jun 20, 2007 12:22 pm

I can't wait to see the new "silent mode" radar implemented... Kudos to whoever thought of that
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Postby Kyle003p » Wed Jun 20, 2007 12:23 pm

I can't wait to see the new "silent mode" radar implemented... Kudos to whoever thought of that
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Postby chuck_starchaser » Wed Jun 20, 2007 12:38 pm

Silent mode radar is nothing new really; it exists in RL combat aircraft; it exists in flight sims; and it exists in WC canon, --from the novels, if not from the games.
And it's one of those feature that can do nothing but good to a game's immersion.
It's high time it gets implemented, really.
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Postby Rezaele » Wed Jun 20, 2007 9:27 pm

@chuck

Thanks, that is great news to here of plans on porting the current PR1.2 to the WC SVN then to the current Vegastrike SVN.
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Postby micheal_andreas_stahl » Thu Jun 21, 2007 3:56 am

Does the SVN have improved AI? Formations? For commanding wingmen i take.
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Postby Dilloh » Thu Jun 21, 2007 9:23 am

AI is nothing related to the SVN, it has its own code. z30 is currently diving into that, but I guess it'll be a long way for him to understand this - not that I want to state he is slow or dumb, but it was a long way for me too to get a feeling for the campaign scripts. :wink:
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Postby Kyle003p » Thu Jun 21, 2007 9:39 am

chuck_starchaser wrote:Silent mode radar is nothing new really; it exists in RL combat aircraft; it exists in flight sims; and it exists in WC canon, --from the novels, if not from the games.
And it's one of those feature that can do nothing but good to a game's immersion.
It's high time it gets implemented, really.


I guess I mis-typed there... Being on a submarine, I understand silent mode. Our sub doesn't even have active sonar, we operate primarily on passive. I was just trying to say that I was excited to see it implemented into PU
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Postby micheal_andreas_stahl » Sat Jun 23, 2007 4:00 am

Dilloh, i understand that scripting takes alot to understand.
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Postby zbyszanna » Sun Oct 21, 2007 1:42 pm

I haven't read the whole topic carefully so maybe I'm repeating something (sorry).

I wouldn't like to see any artificial limitations in the game. It may be good for beginners, but it will kill the "reality" feel of the game. My opinion is that, if something is not sensible in real life it should not be in the game also (and I don't mind faster-than-light-travelling-like stuff). If anyone would like to impose such restrictions (as not being able to buy great stuff in the beginning) , I would rather consider following the path of placing such goodies in hard to get to locations (at least at the beginning).

Another thing are cheaters - I don't mind them. More precisely I don't mind someone ruining his own experience as long as he does not ruin it for others. So if someone wants to cheat in single player mode - it is his decision and his loss (this is not applicable for multiplayer mode as cheaters ruin the game for other people obviously). Restricting the availbility of merchandise only because someone can cheat himself tons of cash is not acceptable for me, as it will also affect regular and experienced players that want to experiment with the game. This is implemented really great in Fallout 2, where inexperienced player will follow the path of slowly upgrading his gear with time, when experienced player can use his knownledge from earlier sessions and gather "serious" equipment in the first hour of the game.

Summing up, any artificial restrictions will dimish the greatness of the game, taking away it's reality feel and making it look just like computer game, not like space pilot life simulator.
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Postby Psyco Diver 69 » Sun Oct 21, 2007 2:38 pm

For online I would like to see every have to start from scratch with either a taurus or a talon and you can run your life in the game after that. After that the money and ship codes would need to be encrypted to keep most cheaters out. I haven't followed this thread in a while so I may be just repeating stuff
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Postby zbyszanna » Sun Oct 21, 2007 2:58 pm

As for AT fields (almost NGE joke), radar could pick some of them. Given that there are plenty of asteroids, that would successfuly hide enemy ships, bases and so on. As for FoF capabilities, there could be false negatives, so some enemies could remain undetected or even detected but marked as neutrals (just as those picked asteroids). There could be also some probability to detect target that is hidden in asteroids in general, but I guess it would require much programming related work.

EDIT: What is the connection between PR and PU? Is PR still developped and PU is separate MOD, or rather PU is an evolution of PR? If it is the first case, who is in charge of PR now?

EDIT2: Cut some embarasing lines.
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Postby Dilloh » Mon Oct 22, 2007 10:04 am

zbyszanna wrote:I wouldn't like to see any artificial limitations in the game. It may be good for beginners, but it will kill the "reality" feel of the game. My opinion is that, if something is not sensible in real life it should not be in the game also (and I don't mind faster-than-light-travelling-like stuff).
I understand what you mean - the usual scifi-fiction like warp, cloak, and stuff is allowed, but things like dimension compression, gas-shaped lifeforms and other mind-blowing stuff that requires to read the relativity theory should be out. Agreed.
If anyone would like to impose such restrictions (as not being able to buy great stuff in the beginning) , I would rather consider following the path of placing such goodies in hard to get to locations (at least at the beginning).
Goodies of all kind will be placed in campaign progresses. However, there are no hard-to-reach-locations as long as you afterburn around in your centurion. So campaigns are the best solutions right now, however they'll eventually try to simulate a technological process equivalent to the player's developement, make that bank account. So you will not be able to get the 100000$-radar until you found a certain place and completed a certain set of missions - far away from Troy.
Restricting the availbility of merchandise only because someone can cheat himself tons of cash is not acceptable for me, as it will also affect regular and experienced players that want to experiment with the game.
The aim is not to disallow the experience of using a fusion gun on a Tarsus. The aim is to fill Gemini with life, adventures, and to give players a reason to play those mission till the end. Every campaign unlocks a ship, an item, as an additional reward for your efforts for a character. In my opinion, that's great spice for the game, otherwised you'd just run for the money.

We currently have experiences like "Damn, I don't have 4,5mil$ for the Lev9 reactor!"

The new campaigns will bring in experiences like "Damn, I have 4,5mil$ but where is this fXXXing Lev9 reactor?!?"
Summing up, any artificial restrictions will dimish the greatness of the game, taking away it's reality feel and making it look just like computer game, not like space pilot life simulator.
I understand that there's fear that PU might devastate from course and spoil the experience. But there is no reason to be afraid, PU indeed adds more content to the game then temporarily limiting the original content.
What is the connection between PR and PU? Is PR still developped and PU is separate MOD, or rather PU is an evolution of PR? If it is the first case, who is in charge of PR now?
PU is an optional expansion pack for PR1.2. PR has not been touched for a while, but this might change in the future. PU is the effort to add more content to PR without destroying the spirit of the game. See my signature.
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Postby S1Genocide » Mon Oct 22, 2007 10:21 am

[quote] We currently have experiences like "Damn, I don't have 4,5mil$ for the Lev9 reactor!"

The new campaigns will bring in experiences like "Damn, I have 4,5mil$ but where is this fXXXing Lev9 reactor?!?" [\quote]


Exactly what I don't want. If you are going to do this include the original files for people who wouldn't like this.

The special ships I understand. For everyday equipment no fXXXing way.

I already get pissy looking for two plasma cannons.
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Postby zbyszanna » Mon Oct 22, 2007 12:51 pm

Dilloh wrote:
zbyszanna wrote:I wouldn't like to see any artificial limitations in the game. It may be good for beginners, but it will kill the "reality" feel of the game. My opinion is that, if something is not sensible in real life it should not be in the game also (and I don't mind faster-than-light-travelling-like stuff).

I understand what you mean - the usual scifi-fiction like warp, cloak, and stuff is allowed, but things like dimension compression, gas-shaped lifeforms and other mind-blowing stuff that requires to read the relativity theory should be out. Agreed.

Unfortunatelly you didn't understand me at all. This "mind blowing" stuff is not artificial limitation. These are laws of the nature. D Do I really have to explain this?
If anyone would like to impose such restrictions (as not being able to buy great stuff in the beginning) , I would rather consider following the path of placing such goodies in hard to get to locations (at least at the beginning).

Goodies of all kind will be placed in campaign progresses. However, there are no hard-to-reach-locations as long as you afterburn around in your centurion. So campaigns are the best solutions right now, however they'll eventually try to simulate a technological process equivalent to the player's developement, make that bank account. So you will not be able to get the 100000$-radar until you found a certain place and completed a certain set of missions - far away from Troy.


For me that would work only if it was applied to very narrow set of toys, so they would be perceived as bonuses, as prizes for player's greater effort. Although applying it to every item would be artificial and I wouldn't like to see such solution implemented. Of cource, I'm only the spectator, it is your mod and you will do as you like.
And about that centurion thing. You would have to first get one before you blazed through galaxy. More to say, if the problem is centurion, then one should look for solution concerning the centurion (Sorry for my English).

Restricting the availbility of merchandise only because someone can cheat himself tons of cash is not acceptable for me, as it will also affect regular and experienced players that want to experiment with the game.
The aim is not to disallow the experience of using a fusion gun on a Tarsus. The aim is to fill Gemini with life, adventures, and to give players a reason to play those mission till the end. Every campaign unlocks a ship, an item, as an additional reward for your efforts for a character. In my opinion, that's great spice for the game, otherwised you'd just run for the money.


If it is an additional reward than ok. But if is used to shape game's technological flow, then (at least for me) it is bad idea.

We currently have experiences like "Damn, I don't have 4,5mil$ for the Lev9 reactor!"

The new campaigns will bring in experiences like "Damn, I have 4,5mil$ but where is this fXXXing Lev9 reactor?!?"



Maybe I'm strange, but I would like to have experience like "will I be able to solve this mistery?" or "that rat! I will pursue him on the other side of the universe!". As for me, the main role of the campaign is to allow player to take part in an interesting story. Material rewards like guns and etc. should be treated as side dishes, not the main one. I really hated that solution implemented in Freelancer and Dark Star One. Those games are still fun, but are linear as hell.

See my signature.


I've already downloaded and installed this game. Boy, Taurus trully has small windows.
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Postby Psyco Diver 69 » Mon Oct 22, 2007 8:17 pm

I was thinking once again, why not make weapons or ship flying training to get medium, heavy guns, afterburners, ect. Give them a talon to fly through rings to prove they can handle turning thrusters or shoot at "robot" ships to earn the ability to buy tbigger and badder guns.

Can we do something with "flight hours" to earn the chance to buy better ships or moded ships or shields?
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