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Postby Dilloh » Thu May 31, 2007 3:12 pm

Purchasing Tractor Capability for a mount allows it to mount Special-type equipment, which currently is the Tractor Beam, Repulsor Beam, and your HK1303 gun.

Aaaah, thanks, I see now. Could need a renaming.
What I was talking about was making that upgrade purchasable for any mount. Right now, it's only purchasable for gun mounts and missile mounts which can equip Heavy Missiles.
I see, so the "obsolete" ships could be upgraded with additional armament. An extra point for still using them.
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Postby Zool » Thu May 31, 2007 3:39 pm

What I was talking about was making that upgrade purchasable for any mount. Right now, it's only purchasable for gun mounts and missile mounts which can equip Heavy Missiles.

What other sort of mounts are there other than gun or missile. One thing I don't do is sacrifice a gun to put a tractor beam on. If the ship I'm flying doesn't allow a TB on a missile mount then I don't use one. This might be a really dumb question :oops: but can the tractor capability go on any light and/or medium missile mount? If so then this would solve one minor problem for me.

I see, so the "obsolete" ships could be upgraded with additional armament. An extra point for still using them.

Are you talking about ships like the Raptor? If so then then yes, I fully agree evening them up with the others. I actually like the WC1 ships and would probably do some campaign worth in it if it was better armoured. Six guns on that one is enough. :lol:

This is a problem too. I feel that ALL ships should be able to have armour added instead of a fixed armour amount. Yes they are ex-military but that should not stop them from being upgrades by their new civilian/privateer owner(s).
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Postby OnyxPaladin » Thu May 31, 2007 11:55 pm

Dilloh wrote:The character is one of the good mates actually. Maybe I should consider uploading what I've done so far, although I don't want to spoil the surprise.


Don't want you to spoil anything, i was going to ask if your character is a rogue like your girlfriend. But that might spoil it too.
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Postby z30 » Fri Jun 01, 2007 12:54 am

Dilloh wrote:
Purchasing Tractor Capability for a mount allows it to mount Special-type equipment, which currently is the Tractor Beam, Repulsor Beam, and your HK1303 gun.

Aaaah, thanks, I see now. Could need a renaming.
What I was talking about was making that upgrade purchasable for any mount. Right now, it's only purchasable for gun mounts and missile mounts which can equip Heavy Missiles.
I see, so the "obsolete" ships could be upgraded with additional armament. An extra point for still using them.


Standard practice for most if not all air forces in the world. Take an old fighter (with decent flight characteristics) add uptodate avionics , upgraded weaponry, better engine - voila! competitive performance at bargain prices :)
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Postby Rezaele » Fri Jun 01, 2007 1:33 am

Zool wrote:Are you talking about ships like the Raptor? If so then then yes, I fully agree evening them up with the others. I actually like the WC1 ships and would probably do some campaign worth in it if it was better armoured. Six guns on that one is enough. :lol:


AFAIK, WC1 Raptor only had 4 guns and second the motion it would be great if it gets included to PU as an alternate ship for the "Centurion".

In terms of game balance, I see the Raptor will not be at the level of the Centurion probably in terms of flight range (AFAIK no jump drive in the military version) so the civilian or decommisioned version will have a jump drive jury-rigged to it and the original milspec powerplant was replaced by a civilian type counterpart.
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Postby Dilloh » Fri Jun 01, 2007 2:11 am

Zool wrote:This might be a really dumb question but can the tractor capability go on any light and/or medium missile mount?
According to Solon not. I never thought about which mounts those are in detail, but now we can put a hand on this. Maybe we'd even limit those mount upgrade for the pre-2669 ships (like the Raptor) to offer a serious rebalance.
OnyxPaladin wrote:Don't want you to spoil anything, i was going to ask if your character is a rogue like your girlfriend. But that might spoil it too.
He's not a rogue, rather one of the good fellas, but also someone who quickly knows about Burrows and his "problems" with the law. Compromise: As soon as Zool hands me over his units.csv I'll begin melting a 2.0a for all. Although this is now what I wanted to do, I think it might take till next year if I insisted on merging all content at once.
Rezaele wrote:AFAIK, WC1 Raptor only had 4 guns and second the motion it would be great if it gets included to PU as an alternate ship for the "Centurion".
Hi Rezaele and welcome to the boards! Implementing the original Raptor is no problem at all, we've access to the WCU ship library and I'll look out if I find the correct model, might need some help though. Still, I think offering a WC1 era ship as reasonable alternate to a post-WC2 heavy fighter is not too balanced... Raptor should be obsolete in 2669, and the refit should not make them 100% equal or even better compared to the Centurion.
Rezaele wrote:In terms of game balance, I see the Raptor will not be at the level of the Centurion probably in terms of flight range (AFAIK no jump drive in the military version) so the civilian or decommisioned version will have a jump drive jury-rigged to it and the original milspec powerplant was replaced by a civilian type counterpart.
Also in terms of balance, the Raptor would have to suffer from a serious refit then. Always spoken in terms of canonity, it must have been refitted to hold a jump drive as well as a new reactor type. Of course it won't be behind other PU ships because those also were "refitted" without looking if it is canon. Still, I think we have to begin thinking about if a ship is just a metal hull in which we can put in as much mana as we like.
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Postby Rezaele » Fri Jun 01, 2007 2:50 am

Dilloh wrote:Hi Rezaele and welcome to the boards! Implementing the original Raptor is no problem at all, we've access to the WCU ship library and I'll look out if I find the correct model, might need some help though. Still, I think offering a WC1 era ship as reasonable alternate to a post-WC2 heavy fighter is not too balanced... Raptor should be obsolete in 2669, and the refit should not make them 100% equal or even better compared to the Centurion.


Thanks for the welcome! Unfortunately, don't know anything about graphics other than appreciating them so I won't be of help.

Agreed, if ever the Raptor will be added it should not be better the Centurion (advertised as the best civilian fighter of 2669 :lol: ) but looking at the perspective of 2669 in the Gemini Sector an old military craft (supposedly decommisioned) it's easier to provide a conceivable background (campaign wise) how it found it way to "privateers", "militias" or even "pirates".

Dilloh wrote:Also in terms of balance, the Raptor would have to suffer from a serious refit then. Always spoken in terms of canonity, it must have been refitted to hold a jump drive as well as a new reactor type. Of course it won't be behind other PU ships because those also were "refitted" without looking if it is canon.


I stated that in the premise that you can change the systems (i.e. reactor, shields, etc. ) same with the other OP or PU ships unless you deemed it to be a milspec ship (un-upgradable) but then no fun in getting it except for the joy of flying and reminiscing with it or makin use of it in a mission in a campaign (whichever faction you want) where your stuck in just one system.

Dilloh wrote:Still, I think we have to begin thinking about if a ship is just a metal hull in which we can put in as much mana as we like.


Agreed but the need to "hotrod" a vehicle is a proven human nature too.
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Postby Dilloh » Fri Jun 01, 2007 3:25 am

Thanks for the welcome! Unfortunately, don't know anything about graphics other than appreciating them so I won't be of help.
I don't meant that I need help with modelling, but I need some help to identify the WC1 raptor, maybe there are several versions. Will post screenshots.
it's easier to provide a conceivable background (campaign wise) how it found it way to "privateers", "militias" or even "pirates".
Scratch the pirates and... yes.
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Postby z30 » Fri Jun 01, 2007 5:55 am

Dilloh wrote:
Thanks for the welcome! Unfortunately, don't know anything about graphics other than appreciating them so I won't be of help.


Which reminds me - if you need help integrating the new stuff just let me know. I just need a prioritized list - with the ones you really think important near the top.

Will reinstall PR with your mod this weekend , should be ready to start modding again.
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Postby chuck_starchaser » Fri Jun 01, 2007 5:19 pm

Dilloh wrote:I think we have to begin thinking about if a ship is just a metal hull in which we can put in as much mana as we like.

YES. I'm reading Fleet Action, which is set in 2668, during the false peace.
Here's Hunter visiting a base in the Landreich (page 102):
Forstchen wrote:Tucked into the hangars lining the field was a bizarre assortment of ships. The heaviest was a medium corvette and it took Ian a moment to recognize it as an old Granicus-class, a line discontinued more than twenty years ago. The ship, however, was refitted with a couple of E-8 engines attached to anchor points on the side of the hull, with half a dozen mass driver turrets patched on as well. It was a hell of a smuggler's craft with the firepower of a light frigate thrown in.
.............................................................
It was the other ships, however, that caught his eye. It looked like the Landreich was planning to set up a museum, with some of the fighters actual prewar ships of more than thirty years vintage. All of them, however, were no longer spec in any way whatsoever. An early Ferret A had a new engine housing with of all things a Mark 10 engine off an old Falcon light corvette. It looked absolutely absurd, like nothing but an engine with a cockpit up front, with a gatling mass driver gun strapped on underneath.
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Postby Zool » Fri Jun 01, 2007 6:27 pm

Excellent excerpt. This is what I was sort of thinking. If you buy any ship you should have the ability to do what you want to it regardless of whether it's an ex-military milspec or not. It's YOUR ship and provided that you only use what is available in the game then why not?
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Postby OnyxPaladin » Fri Jun 01, 2007 9:23 pm

I agree.
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Postby Solon Halwinder » Sat Jun 02, 2007 7:39 am

Going briefly back to the whole Tractor Capability thing, I checked a few more ships, and apparently it's more than just the "Gun mount or Heavy Missiles" criteria that I thought it was. Unfortunately, this means I'm clueless as to what actually determines whether or not a mount can have Tractor Capability added.
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Postby Dilloh » Sat Jun 02, 2007 11:27 am

Solon, don't know what you tried yet, but this should be easy - you can try to test the following for yourself:

Look at the ship of your choice from units.csv, let's say a Raptor.

Search for the line raptor.template - those are the restriction values.

In the column "mounts" you see all possible mount enhancements, like LIGHT MEDIUM HEAVY AUTOTRACKING

Simply add SPECIAL there - it should allow all those items.

EDIT: Zool! Thanks for the Miggs shirt design! Unfortunately, you won't be shipping to Germany, will you? :cry:
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Postby Zool » Sat Jun 02, 2007 4:26 pm

@ Dilloh
As far as I know the company that prints them should be able to get one there. I'll ask the missus and get back to you.

PS...Glad you like it :D
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Postby z30 » Sat Jun 02, 2007 8:49 pm

Solon Halwinder wrote:Going briefly back to the whole Tractor Capability thing, I checked a few more ships, and apparently it's more than just the "Gun mount or Heavy Missiles" criteria that I thought it was. Unfortunately, this means I'm clueless as to what actually determines whether or not a mount can have Tractor Capability added.


I'll take care of looking into this. I've already re-installed PR 1.2 with Dilloh's PU patch plus Orthuberra's inventory image upgrades.

Will email the mini-patch for the modders/beta testers here who want to test it.

Fyi, because of past bad experiences on the part of new players who mistakenly download an unstable experimental patch I won't be posting these types of alpha/beta improvements in public anymore.
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Postby micheal_andreas_stahl » Sat Jun 02, 2007 11:52 pm

What about the people that test it? I am free to test it, but my brother downloads everything for me as i'm on a bad internet conection.
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Postby Dilloh » Sun Jun 03, 2007 4:27 am

z30, I once established the MOD playground thread for those who want to test - that's pure beta ground.
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Postby Zool » Sun Jun 03, 2007 6:21 am

Dilloh, and if anyone else interested. Cafepress ships world wide.

Sorry I know this is off topic.
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Postby Kyle003p » Sun Jun 17, 2007 9:16 am

Hi guys,

I want to start off by thanking everyone for all the hard work they put in to making this game. I've been following the progress for a few months now, but this is my first post.

I wanted to share a few ideas, and even though no one has posted here for a while, it has the perfect name... One of the things I enjoyed with Fight night round 3 is the rival system, two or three ppl you constantly encounter as you progress through the game. Maybe it could eventually be developed to where you could select which type of character you play as, allowing you to play both sides of whatever conflict you are involved in (maybe even as a Kat??? :lol:)

anyway, i took a couple C++ classes in high school, and i don't know much about modeling... But i'd like to think of myself as somewhat creative and would like to put my meager skills to helping rather than just leeching off you work. :wink:
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Postby Dilloh » Sun Jun 17, 2007 10:32 am

Hello Kyle, and welcome to the boards.

I don't know anything about Fight Night, so I do not understand clearly what you want to suggest.

Maybe it could eventually be developed to where you could select which type of character you play as, allowing you to play both sides of whatever conflict you are involved in (maybe even as a Kat???)
There are somewhat related things planned: Branching campaigns. Those will be realized within the python scripts. Taking over a totally new character (with his/her own ships, own relations, etc.) is not meant to happen by the engine and would require changes to the code, which is currently not our aim. You might want to talk to chuck_starchaser about that, he once planned a WC0/Priv0 project based on the engine where the player would "switch" between his military engagement and privateering, which are the technical requirements which are needed for your campaign. I don't know how far the code-part are advanced, but I guess chuck had at least an idea how to solve that.
anyway, i took a couple C++ classes in high school, and i don't know much about modeling...
Not sure of how we (the modders) could make use of C++ right now, still I have loads of ideas which would be of great use for PU:
- A PU Win32 installer
- Mod aiding programs, like a "campaign creator"
etc.
With chuck, we currently call a great modeler one of our friends, so there is no need to jump into the cold water :wink:
What we could use of most right now I think is 2D artworkers, guys who are willing to dig into campaigns or AI, or python in general, or even dialogue scripters (you should be familiar with the WC story a bit just to make sure that you don't build in X-Wings, see?).

But overall, maybe z30 knows how C++ can be of use for us - I'm no progger, but he knows some more about that.

But i'd like to think of myself as somewhat creative and would like to put my meager skills to helping rather than just leeching off you work.
Hey, we virtually get any feedback except of the download number, so feel free to criticize :lol:

What definitively will come is that we'll need a lot of beta testing within the next version - we'll have a lot of experimental stuff in it which might be unbalanced or simply not working as it was supposed.
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Postby zeo1234 » Sun Jun 17, 2007 1:47 pm

Dilloh wrote:I don't know anything about Fight Night, so I do not understand clearly what you want to suggest.


It's a boxing video game.

Basically he was suggesting a campaign in which specific characters can be played and you can choose which ones to play as.
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Postby Dilloh » Sun Jun 17, 2007 2:23 pm

zeo1234 wrote:Basically he was suggesting a campaign in which specific characters can be played and you can choose which ones to play as.
Okay then, thx for the info. As I said, we're facing a technical barrier with this scenario, engine-wise. I furthermore think branching a campaign and letting Burrows work for a major power as key variable in a large operation would be a nicer change to the game (this concept worked just fine with the RPG "Gothic"). Content could be the struggle for a frontier system, like Ragnarok, which ends up in one faction (cats, feds) occupying the system and building up a starbase (added by a trigger, I once read in a very old VS thread that factions can build starbases within the gameflow) or an outpost to hold it.

This would not be only easier to implement, but also give us the ability to melt it with everything we have right now. Changing between characters would end up in a game on its own.
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Postby Kyle003p » Sun Jun 17, 2007 4:34 pm

sorry this didn't appear earlier, i was playing golf.

what i was suggesting was having a re-accuring (sp?) character(s) that you meet up with throughout the game and possibly programming two or three different storylines that play opposite sides of different battles. that way you could play through as burrows in one game, and in another game, fight against burrows as say, a pirate/bounty hunter/kirathi. it should be the same thing as two different campaigns, but just playing from the other faction. that way you get excellent re-play value (like knights of the old republic) by playing for the "bad guys." it seems like it is possible to implement in the future, and i would be happy to help with what i can.... I don't know, what do you all think? does this sound possible? does it sound like something worth pursuing?
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Postby zeo1234 » Sun Jun 17, 2007 11:01 pm

Your statement is a bit confusing, if you mean like the Knights of the Old Republic they are already working on something similar in the PU mod that will allow you to choose sides to a somewhat greater degree than presently available.

After all a Privateer goes where the cred's lead them :wink:

But if you're suggesting a different character for a different side that still runs the problem of adding more complexity to an already complex mod.
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