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Postby Dilloh » Mon Jun 25, 2007 11:30 am

I really really like the GalaxyGs can I make a request to "Not" take it out of the game.
The new HK will most likely be a compromise between the old HK and the old GS. But come on, the GS is totally unbalanced, way too strong, way too fast, way too shielded. That's no fun, that's too easy going.

Well, it might also come back as an easteregg... who knows? :wink:
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Postby Solon Halwinder » Mon Jun 25, 2007 1:12 pm

We could make the current GalaxyGS non-spawning (so you can't capture one with a Paradigm or DraymanCVL) and make it available as a reward for one of the upcoming campaigns.
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Postby micheal_andreas_stahl » Mon Jun 25, 2007 8:50 pm

I think now it's best. really if it's gunna have that many turret he speed would more like 300kps and 30 units of cargo space only.
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Postby S1Genocide » Mon Jun 25, 2007 9:01 pm

micheal_andreas_stahl wrote:I think now it's best. really if it's gunna have that many turret he speed would more like 300kps and 30 units of cargo space only.


My suggestion is:
Cut Shield to level 5
Cut Generator to Level 5
Cut Speed 342
keep hull Space of 20

The whole reason I like it is for the turrets. I didn't know it had "supership" shields and generators.
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Postby Dilloh » Tue Jun 26, 2007 6:03 am

Solon wrote:We could make the current GalaxyGS non-spawning (so you can't capture one with a Paradigm or DraymanCVL) and make it available as a reward for one of the upcoming campaigns.
That's what I possibly intended, but definetively not within the next release... let's all wait how z30's new HK will be, then we'll talk again (there'll be loads of balance things to talk about), okay?
MAS wrote:I think now it's best. really if it's gunna have that many turret he speed would more like 300kps and 30 units of cargo space only.
Surely it's best, but having the "best ship" in all manners (except of cargo space, haha) is truely boring, isn't it?
S1G wrote:The whole reason I like it is for the turrets.
Yup, turrets are fun... but no need to have better stats then than a Galaxy. I'd make it a hit-and-run-ship and lower shields&reactor to 2, dismantle the front gun mounts so that you only can fight via turrets (makes it impossible to dogfight) and take away any missile mounts. This'd be rebalanced via targs ATTs - your turrets would hit much better then.
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Postby z30 » Tue Jun 26, 2007 11:39 am

Image

Image

Image

Three perspective shots of the new small turrets on the TarsusMk2. Lasers & Mesons already in fyi. This variant can no longer carry medium turrets.

Small turrets will only carry light guns, making the balancing of turrets easier on ships. Due for a makeover is the OrionMk2 which will now carry 2 small turrets, 2 hull guns & yes, still one missile launcher (15 light missile capacity though)

Don't underestimate the new missiles - the new FF will strip away most of the shielding on a Talon at a range of 24k & the new HS will kill it within 10k.

Also in line is the GalaxyHK (no changes from prev. description). About the GS, I'm still thinking about it :)
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Postby Dilloh » Tue Jun 26, 2007 12:44 pm

About the GS, I'm still thinking about it
Make 3 of the 5 turrets small or milspec lasers and remove all forward guns. Makes flying it much harder if you cannot rely on your forward guns, and I like ships that need different piloting skills :D

Overall, it'd be a pity if Gosshawk's hard turret placement works vanished in the data nirvana :(
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Postby z30 » Wed Jun 27, 2007 12:26 am

Dilloh wrote:
About the GS, I'm still thinking about it
Make 3 of the 5 turrets small or milspec lasers and remove all forward guns. Makes flying it much harder if you cannot rely on your forward guns, and I like ships that need different piloting skills :D

Overall, it'd be a pity if Gosshawk's hard turret placement works vanished in the data nirvana :(


Not to worry - the GS will eventually make it's way in. I'm thinking 2 medium & 2 small turrets, just need someone to place them in a way that works & looks great.

It won't retain the 900kph speed though, shield levels will be on par with ships this size as well.
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Postby micheal_andreas_stahl » Thu Jun 28, 2007 6:47 am

Dilloh wrote:
MAS wrote:I think now it's best. really if it's gunna have that many turret he speed would more like 300kps and 30 units of cargo space only.
Surely it's best, but having the "best ship" in all manners (except of cargo space, haha) is truely boring, isn't it?


No No, you misunderstood me. though it's my fault.

I meant it's best taken out until it's rebalenced. I'm not in favour of having no front fireing guns. If it's gonna have a larger shield and reactor it will have to manuver more sluggishly and will be slower and have less cargo room.

It will become a fancy and bulky talon.
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Postby Dilloh » Thu Jun 28, 2007 1:10 pm

MAS wrote:I meant it's best taken out until it's rebalenced.
Ah, okay. Exactly my thoughts. Let's put it into drydock, but not dismantle it so far.
MAS wrote:I'm not in favour of having no front fireing guns.
Oh come on, you never tried just to use turrets. It can be fun, if you have 5 turrets! Though I think I'll have to create such a ship on my own...
MAS wrote:If it's gonna have a larger shield and reactor it will have to manuver more sluggishly and will be slower and have less cargo room.
Exactly... much more sluggish...
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Postby chuck_starchaser » Fri Jun 29, 2007 1:34 am

I bet what MAS meant was that he's not in favor of having front guns. In English, double negation means affirmation. Is it the same in German? Spanish doesn't xor like English does...
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Postby Dilloh » Fri Jun 29, 2007 3:43 am

Erm... eh?!
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Postby OnyxPaladin » Fri Jun 29, 2007 8:03 pm

The only reason we won against the Japanese in WW2 was because they're the only people with a language that's even stupider than ours.
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WC1 cockpits now in PU

Postby z30 » Sat Jun 30, 2007 7:39 pm

Ferret :

Image

Raptor :

Image


Sabre (front & rear):

Image

Image

All cockpits taken from the updated versions of the WCU multiplayer game or the latest WCU stable version.

And to add just a little bit more of the original Wing Commander flavor, some weapon & equipment descriptions now use text from that classic game.

Image
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Postby micheal_andreas_stahl » Sun Jul 01, 2007 5:13 am

Dilloh wrote:Oh come on, you never tried just to use turrets. It can be fun, if you have 5 turrets! Though I think I'll have to create such a ship on my own...


I'm not in favour of NOT having front firing weapons. I'm a Demon pilot remember. I would like five turrets AND front firing canons to amuse my self while theturrets are doing there job.

Dilloh wrote:Ah, okay. Exactly my thoughts. Let's put it into drydock, but not dismantle it so far.


Yeah, do that instead of scrapping it.

Oh, z30. The cockpits look as if they were dragged straight from WC.

The only reason we won against the Japanese in WWII was because theyre the only people with a language stupider than ours.


I beg to differ. The Korens have a worse language.

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Postby Dilloh » Sun Jul 01, 2007 6:29 am

I'm not in favour of NOT having front firing weapons. I'm a Demon pilot remember. I would like five turrets AND front firing canons to amuse my self while theturrets are doing there job.
This was just an idea. I don't think the concept will make it into game. However, I think the Galaxy GS fills the gap between fighter and capship. It should behave somewhat more like a capship then, which means lower maneuverability. Just think of how useless your front guns in a Paradigm are, you rely on your turrets then. Maybe reducing the GS front guns to one gun would be sufficient.
Oh, z30. The cockpits look as if they were dragged straight from WC.
Sure they are, that's what most people appreciate. Despite of that, there's nothing final in PU. If someone ever pops up with something better, anything can be replaced. Talking of full 3D cockpit interiors, for example.

EDIT: z30, suggest to also take in Turbo's steltek cockpit, as well as Gosshawk's capship cockpit concept. Better than nothing and still nice pieces of work, IMHO. I have both on my machine and can mail them to you if you like.

EDIT2: The sabre turret cockpit would, with some recoloring to brown color schemes, make a good kilrathi turret IMO, since we already have good "human" turret screens.
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Postby z30 » Sun Jul 01, 2007 10:37 am

micheal_andreas_stahl wrote:
Oh, z30. The cockpits look as if they were dragged straight from wc.



Yes, they are - just fitted into PR. These are just placeholders fyi, so people know what the actual cockpits look like before the improved versions come along :)
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Postby z30 » Sun Jul 01, 2007 10:42 am

Dilloh wrote:
EDIT: z30, suggest to also take in Turbo's steltek cockpit, as well as Gosshawk's capship cockpit concept. Better than nothing and still nice pieces of work, IMHO. I have both on my machine and can mail them to you if you like.

EDIT2: The sabre turret cockpit would, with some recoloring to brown color schemes, make a good kilrathi turret IMO, since we already have good "human" turret screens.



Good idea -send those two cockpits my way. Your sabre turret as Kilrathi turret sounds good. We just need to fit in the radar screen somewhere.
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Postby Zool » Sun Jul 01, 2007 3:53 pm

MAS wrote:
Dilloh wrote:Oh come on, you never tried just to use turrets. It can be fun, if you have 5 turrets! Though I think I'll have to create such a ship on my own...

I'm not in favour of NOT having front firing weapons. I'm a Demon pilot remember. I would like five turrets AND front firing canons to amuse my self while theturrets are doing there job.

I'm with Andy on this one completely. I really like the GGS and although I agree with some slight to moderate changes to it's handling and performance I definitely do not want it to lose it's forward guns. Limit them IF you must but please don't take them away. A BIG part of the game is dogfighting, for many that is the game. Some of us don't want to be a missile launcher pilots (where's the fun in that?), we want GUNS. Personally I hate fighting from turrets. No forward guns means that when you're in a turret, your ship flies in a straight line, making you a really easy target. Making the turret a better AI is great (although I never had any problems in a GGS before with the turrets). You will need far better turrets if you are going to make it slower and less manoeuvreable. IF there was no forward guns then you would have to rely on the turrets and the ability to dodge incoming weapons fire. Take this away and what have you got?? Target practice for the AI. End result, one less ship for some people to fly.
(And please forgive my enthusiasm in making my point :D )
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Postby Zool » Sun Jul 01, 2007 4:02 pm

Nice work on the new cockpits and turret. How will they look in 1280x960?This is what I like to run my game in.
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Postby z30 » Sun Jul 01, 2007 6:23 pm

Zool wrote:Some of us don't want to be a missile launcher pilots (where's the fun in that?), we want GUNS. Personally I hate fighting from turrets. No forward guns means that when you're in a turret, your ship flies in a straight line, making you a really easy target. Making the turret a better AI is great (although I never had any problems in a GGS before with the turrets). You will need far better turrets if you are going to make it slower and less manoeuvreable. IF there was no forward guns then you would have to rely on the turrets and the ability to dodge incoming weapons fire. Take this away and what have you got?? Target practice for the AI. End result, one less ship for some people to fly.
(And please forgive my enthusiasm in making my point :D )


I'm cutting down the speed to something a non-fighter ship of this size can believably have. Turret accuracy (formerly 25% for civilian ships) has been increased to 40% , though this just means ITTS kicks in more frequently.

Stock 2xguns & 2x missile launchers stay as is. This variant should have better radar though.

Turrets down to 4 from 5 - and two of them will be small. This is basically a merchant ship frame, there is no ship of this class and size with 5 turrets. But shields & armor will be strong for a vessel of this type.
Last edited by z30 on Sun Jul 01, 2007 6:57 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Postby z30 » Sun Jul 01, 2007 6:25 pm

Zool wrote:Nice work on the new cockpits and turret. How will they look in 1280x960?This is what I like to run my game in.


Spirit & Hellcat's work actually - I tweaked some of the text display & shield/armor display placements. No idea on how it will look in very high res.
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Postby micheal_andreas_stahl » Mon Jul 02, 2007 5:14 am

Well, i hope the targeting reticles won't stay. They are ugly.

GGS. This brings me to a question. Is it possible to put a limit on the movment of turrets. Becuase i was flying my Paradigm, and the turrets keep shooting through the hull and damaging me.
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Postby Dilloh » Mon Jul 02, 2007 8:44 am

Zool wrote:I definitely do not want it to lose it's forward guns.
Okay okay okay guys... it was just an idea!
MAS wrote:Is it possible to put a limit on the movment of turrets
Sure... i.e. rear turrets work exactly like bottom turrets, just for they have another angle, no make this should have...
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Postby Zool » Mon Jul 02, 2007 3:52 pm

@ z30.............Sounds great :D

Stock 2xguns & 2x missile launchers stay as is. This variant should have better radar though.
Any chance of a third mount specifically for a tractor beam. I hate having to give up missiles to mount one. :( How you going to do the radar? Give it an inbuilt one? If so then make it an Omni, I don't use anything else.

Turrets down to 4 from 5 - and two of them will be small. This is basically a merchant ship frame, there is no ship of this class and size with 5 turrets. But shields & armor will be strong for a vessel of this type.
Two medium and two light turrets sounds about right. (Five plasmas did seem a bit excessive). Are you going to have fixed armour instead of buyable?

Dilloh wrote:
Zool wrote:I definitely do not want it to lose it's forward guns.

Okay okay okay guys... it was just an idea!
That's ok mate......just not one of your better ones...lol :lol:
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