What should be included in a call for themes/motives?

For collaboration between the different artists creating music and sound for vegastrike.
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What should be included in a call for themes/motives?

Post by Mike Ducharme »

I have some opinions to offer about the call for themes.

First off, I think we should include in the call for themes that it is not specifically a call for themes, that they can write full blown themes or simply defining motifs (motives) which could consist of melodic, rhythmic, instrumental, aural or other fragments. If you say themes, it specifically means stuff like the main theme from star wars.. too many themes would get overwhelming. By asking for motifs, instead it opens up doors a bit, and by suggesting that they experiment with insteresting rhythms, instruments, and sounds, we help to ensure that each race will have its different sound.

As well, I think we need to make clear up front that by submitting a theme the composer will have to be willing to license it under the creative commons license that allows derivative works with credit. I think it's important that the original composer of the theme continues to get credit throughout, but derivative works have to be allowed because otherwise the theme can't be used in any other tracks.

As well, speaking as a composer, nothing gives me more ideas/inspiration than not only hearing full blown descriptions of the races, but also seeing pictures of them and pictures of their ships, and further information about their backstory (as much as has been written). All of this helps greatly in creating themes that will be suitable for the race so that we aren't wasting the time of talented composers. All of that should be included as part of a call for themes or the call for themes linked to a page on each race somehow. (Do the races / factions each have their own wiki page at the moment with pictures, backstory etc? That would be a nice way of handling it)

I think we should focus on themes/motives for terran, area and rlaan at the moment. We'll open up a call for themes/motives for the minor factions/races later.

Comments?

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Post by Zeog »

I second your idea of creating a motif collection first. As we very probably won't have a single composer writing all the music for a species/faction but rather a collaborative composing it is very essential to have a set of characteristic motives in order to make the music consistent. WRT Creative Commons, sure or any other derivative work, acknowledgment allowing license.
(I'm occasionally doing a little writing of sheet music and arranging for band myself, and have a Rlaan motif scribbled down. I just lack the recording or sampling tools. So all I could provide is MIDI... but that comes into play further down the road. Just wanted you to know...)

As for additional information about species and faction the database in the wiki is a good starting point. Here are some entry points for reading:
Overview of all the species
Humanity
Aera
Rlaan

Overview of all the factions, some of the individual pages contain more back story

History and Timeline
The first contacts of species
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Post by Oblivion »

that they experiment with insteresting rhythms, instruments, and sounds, we help to ensure that each race will have its different sound.
Exactly. All they need to do is to match up the moodset of the race they target the theme for.

As for derivative work, that is indeed necessary. The difference between two tracks of a given faction might be really really minor.

For instance:

Rlaan Default Inflight music might feature the use of a given set of instruments..

The Rlaan Battle Music might then be just the same track but with added instrument and/or increased tempo.

That would ensure that transitions would indeed be seamless.


MOVED:
:oops: Thanks Kangaroo22, I was a bit harried when I wrote that... AGAIN. That was actually the second draft of thepost, the first one disappeared down the drains in a blackout while I was still typing. :wink:

So okay, let's agree on the theme length first.

Which?

1) Full length

2) Loopable (length still to be deliberated)

please consider the difficulty in creating the theme, the ease of track switching when ingame atmosphere changes, the availability of composers who can make those kind of themes and etc.

choose wisely. :lol: Vote ME for president of the Confederation of Inhabited Worlds.

@Mike, please make this a poll(?)

BTW: I have listened to some of madsen's music and some of those loopable themes are really suitable to what I imagine VS music to be. :wink:

and again BTW: My personal vote goes to 2) for short and sweet. :P


MOVED

And a bit of my idea of Faction Moods, as well as suggestions as to type of music. Note: SUGGESTIONS mean they can be CHANGED at your discretion. :wink:

B)RLAANS
Something relaxing and sloow. Incorporate sounds of whales and dolphins. e.g. The sound the spirits made in Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within

C)AERA
Tribal percussion :?: Aerans came from a jungle homeworld...

D)ULN
The last major group. I don't know what music is appropriate. The Ulns are feudal. But not "Lords and Ladies feudal", more like "Aztec Death Priests and Slaves" kind of feudal. :wink:


Humans?.. oh well, I'll leave it up to you guys, since personally I prefer their music to be divide by faction at the start... :wink:
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Post by Mike Ducharme »

Could we add pictures of the Rlaan and Aera species and their ships in the Wiki article? I saw a few concept drawings that you did of the species, Oblivion. That could prove to be an important source of inspiration to the composers.

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Post by Oblivion »

RLAAN:
RlaanWorkConc03.jpg
<moderated by klauss - I just hate km-wide screens, and I bet everyone does too>

An Rlaan with a the frontmost and backmost legs cut away.

(i.e. Only 2 legs are shown, and they have 4)

This is a worker. Rlaans are composed of two symbiotic species, the workers and the defenders. They have the same ancestry and can produce sterile hybrid offsprings.

When you think of Rlaan think of one word: BUREAUCRACY

AERA:
(JackS I need confirmation if this is an acceptable concept?)

Image

An Aera.

When you think of the Aeran Ascendancy, thick of one word: PARANOIA
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Re: What should be included in a call for themes/motives?

Post by klauss »

I agree with mike in almost every aspect:
Mike Ducharme wrote:First off, I think we should include in the call for themes that it is not specifically a call for themes, that they can write full blown themes or simply defining motifs (motives) which could consist of melodic, rhythmic, instrumental, aural or other fragments. If you say themes, it specifically means stuff like the main theme from star wars.. too many themes would get overwhelming. By asking for motifs, instead it opens up doors a bit, and by suggesting that they experiment with insteresting rhythms, instruments, and sounds, we help to ensure that each race will have its different sound.
In my book, theme == motif. Well... not precisely. Motif is more associated to Wagnerian semantic models, where theme is far more free of such associations.
Ok - anyway, let's be clear on what a "call for themes" actually is: it's a call for defining qualities and melodies of the music styles that will be associated to each of the three major groups. A theme shall consist of a simple (ideally monophonic) melody, melodic or rithmic pattern, optionally associated (or not) with a coloration pattern. Variations on those grounds are possible: themes might be just coloration patterns, though they should be distinctive enough to make them a theme on their own.
Themes must accept variation as well, to support the most common form of theme-based composition: variations on the theme.

I've been thinking on how to put all this for a while, but I wasn't in a rush since I thought we would wait for a commitee to be formed... won't we?
Mike Ducharme wrote:As well, I think we need to make clear up front that by submitting a theme the composer will have to be willing to license it under the creative commons license that allows derivative works with credit. I think it's important that the original composer of the theme continues to get credit throughout, but derivative works have to be allowed because otherwise the theme can't be used in any other tracks.
Right on track. I had completely forgotten about it - you know, it's pretty common to think that if your submission gets elected, you'll be the one composing, when that can't be farther from the truth. So... people need to be reminded of that, on the call for themes: it's just that - themes - your theme being selected implies nothing about who will compose based on it (though the author will probably be a prime candidate if he/she is willing to), and thus licensing on the theme itself needs to be open for derivatives without explicit consent, otherwise it would just be unusable.
Mike Ducharme wrote:As well, speaking as a composer, nothing gives me more ideas/inspiration than not only hearing full blown descriptions of the races, but also seeing pictures of them and pictures of their ships, and further information about their backstory (as much as has been written). All of this helps greatly in creating themes that will be suitable for the race so that we aren't wasting the time of talented composers. All of that should be included as part of a call for themes or the call for themes linked to a page on each race somehow. (Do the races / factions each have their own wiki page at the moment with pictures, backstory etc? That would be a nice way of handling it)
Let me venture a proposal, but Oblivion is your man on that front - he knows the factions better than most, siphoning knowledge from the MoI himself.
Mike Ducharme wrote:I think we should focus on themes/motives for terran, area and rlaan at the moment.
Ditto - don't underestimate the importance of this kind of focus on the initial steps. There are just too many factions, and we can't realistically expect to do them all at first, so we must consciously focus on major groups only.
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Re: What should be included in a call for themes/motives?

Post by Mike Ducharme »

klauss wrote:I've been thinking on how to put all this for a while, but I wasn't in a rush since I thought we would wait for a commitee to be formed... won't we?
Yup we are waiting for the committee to be formed.. however as this would likely be one of the first jobs of the committee once formed, it makes sense for us to at least put our thoughts and ideas down now. We should get bjornredtail and Mr. Madsen to add their comments as well.

Oblivion - those drawings are quite good and help stimulate musical ideas.. if you could get the approval you mentioned you could add those to the wiki pages for the races, plus a few shots of their ships as well, then we could link to the wiki pages for a call for themes and those pictures would already be on the pages.

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Post by Oblivion »

@Klauss
:oops: :oops: Sorry... hehe. It's just that it was less visible to the composers if it's a url. And a glimpse even a momentary glimpse is all you need to stimulate ideas.

:wink: thanks.

@Mike

The Rlaan Concept is approved and final (I'll see if I can create a beter looking concept later). The Aera however is all based on secondhand descriptions and may not fit that well. But you get the idea.

Here's another glimpse of an Aeran:
Image

The grey angry lizard at the top left, :lol: if that will help.

Some concept art for theHUMANS

For humans, tho, there are a LOT of factions assuredly.

Here are 3 pictures tho that would also help, imo crystallize your ideas of the factions:

A Shaper:
She represents one of the mroe powerful human factions composed of genetically modified superhumans.
Image

The Fraternal War:
Images of war and destruction always evokes something... tho I hope it's not pyromania. lol Here is a(yet unapproved) concept art of a bombardment of a planet:
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j200/ ... nalWar.png

Another face of the human factions. Hence why I recommend middle eastern tunes... but it's up to you.
Image

Okay that's it. Hope I didn't change this thread to an artworks thread tho. ;)
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Post by Mike Ducharme »

Oblivion - those are also cool pics.. We'll have to get those in the pages for the factions if they are approved

If the Rlaan concept drawing is approved, can you please add it to the Wiki here:

http://vegastrike.sourceforge.net/wiki/Species:Rlaan

Then if you can get approval for the Aera drawing you can add it to the Species:Aera page.

Mike
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Post by kensuguro »

you know, something I've never been able to figure out is... who's writing all the descriptions for the factions and background stories? It seems like details are being changed all the time, and there is never a clear image of the factions.. I don't even remember what the concensus was back when I did the music...

Here's the thing. If there is no definite image of the factions in writing, or anything that the casual user (not involved in dev) can get at, then I don't think there's much that we can draw themes from.

I mean, can everyone in this thread come out and say clearly what a rlaan, terran, or aera is? I think we need to get a 1 line description of the major factions directly from the guys writing the stuff. (something a little more inspirational than how their number system works) I think I definitely could use the information.

The wiki stuff is great, but tell you the truth, that's for die-hard fans and us dev people. So, we can't expect a casual user to know the multi-page background story for each of the factions.

So, can we get some definite info from the writing team?
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Post by jackS »

kensuguro wrote:you know, something I've never been able to figure out is... who's writing all the descriptions for the factions and background stories? It seems like details are being changed all the time, and there is never a clear image of the factions.. I don't even remember what the concensus was back when I did the music...

Here's the thing. If there is no definite image of the factions in writing, or anything that the casual user (not involved in dev) can get at, then I don't think there's much that we can draw themes from.

I mean, can everyone in this thread come out and say clearly what a rlaan, terran, or aera is? I think we need to get a 1 line description of the major factions directly from the guys writing the stuff. (something a little more inspirational than how their number system works) I think I definitely could use the information.

The wiki stuff is great, but tell you the truth, that's for die-hard fans and us dev people. So, we can't expect a casual user to know the multi-page background story for each of the factions.

So, can we get some definite info from the writing team?
As with many VS tasks, writing "team" is perhaps an overstatement.

Send me a list of specific questions/talking points you'd like answered/discussed about a set of factions (as you think is important for thematic development), and I'll crank out responses, coalescing notes where present, and distilling thoughts where as yet unwritten. Absent a particular set of points of interest, descriptions of different groups will likely focus unevenly on esoteric topics (I'm notoriously tangential when unconstrained). While some of you may be interested in Andolian blade-dancing, Klk'k naming conventions, Shaper views on human bondage, and the frequency with which Rlaan elected officials re-legislate their religious texts, these probably weren't among the top things you wanted to know about these groups. In short, an imposed external prioritization for organizing information pertinent to your musical work would be greatly appreciated.

I have a minor paper deadline coming up this Monday (IEEE Top Picks submission) so initial responses to anything posted here may be slightly delayed.
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Post by klauss »

@kenseguro: lets address your question.

AFAIK, from what I understand about the three major factions we'll be "musicalizing" first, only two require introduction (rlaan & aeran), for Humans are widely known by us... humans...

Rlaan: slow, but highly parallel and structured thinking. Hugely bureaucratic (mostly coming from their structured way of thinking).

Aeran: impulsive, aggressive, they tend to see things in a "survival of the fittest" context. (Jack - confirmation?)

Humans: we all know, but in contrast with the two, highly heterogeneous in comparison. (though variance is expected among the two, variance in human stuff is orders of magnitude greater).

I guess those are the one/two-liners that matter for music... right?
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Post by kensuguro »

Well, here's precisely the problem I think. While klaus may say
klauss wrote: Aeran: impulsive, aggressive, they tend to see things in a "survival of the fittest" context. (Jack - confirmation?)
And then I see in Oblivion's thread,
AERA - Sinister techno. Music that slyly promises trouble and possible death. Imagine music that a paranoid psychotic killer would love listening to (and let's pretend it's not "Here We Go 'Round The Mulberry Bush",lol).
Although there seems to be a "wind" toward aggression, there obviously is a difference in temperature, if you get what I mean. Is there something specific about AERA that made Obilivion think that they are strongly related to death, almost in a maniac killer manner? -> Jack?

This is just one example, I'm sure everyone has their own version of what the races are like.. we just need to get some info from Jack, so that we're all on the same page. As in, so that the image of the faction isn't up to each and every one of our 'interpretation" but based on jack's intent.

So my questions are, jack, about aera and rlann:
1. What is the brief history of each race that everyone knows about? Something that defines the color of a race.
2. What is their level of technology
3. What is the level of their development as a race? (in parallel to our world: developed country, developing country, etc) Maybe their primary industry would give us some insight. OF course, without making things up as you go. Just from what all players should already know.
4. In what sort of social/cultural context the race enjoys and consumes music in. (strong contrasts: "when vacuuming the house", or "during ritualistic sacrifices" willd do)

Also, in terms of ship/aircraft design, do we have a database of the most current images? (with the new engine) I think that's the most significant "characteristic" that the player actually comes into contact during gameplay that defines a race/faction, so I think it's best to use that as a guideline. Anything -> design and modeling team?
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Post by Mike Ducharme »

I agree 100% with Ken:
  • We need to make sure that the basic descriptions of the races that are set in stone and are guaranteed to not change, otherwise the music written for the races may need to be changed as well, and that's not a good way to make composers happy.
    Lets get some high-quality pictures of the different Aera and Rlaan and Human ships available online for the composers to look at to help give them musical ideas.. The look of the ships helps just like the look of the races for coming up with musical ideas.
BTW I'm pleased to see what the Rlaan concept art of Oblivion's has been added to the wiki, makes it easier to reference.. If the Aera concept art is not exactly what JackS had in mind, perhaps he and Oblivion can work on a concept art for the Aera that will be acceptable?

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Post by Oblivion »

:shock: woot?!!

When did I write dat?

No I did not eman a connection to death. Aerans venerate their dead ancestors, but they don;t have the morbid fascination as the Saahasayaay do.
Okay scratch that off. Klauss is right.

The word to be highlighted in my post was not "killer" but "paranoid". :oops:
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Post by jackS »

I had a little time today, so here's my first crack at what I think you folks were looking for - please let me know if/where I missed the mark.

----

AERA


1. What is the brief history of the race that everyone knows about? Something that defines the color of a race.

Executive summary:

The Aera homeworld was home to extremely competitive ecosystems. It
was not a supportive environment. If one considers Earth the "mother"
of the human race, then, in comparison, Aeneth was an abusive
parent. The Aera evolved in an environment where a slew of things
really did want to kill/eat/infest them. Beginning with the early
harnessing of fire, and ending with industrial might, the Aera
remedied this problem by destroying the vast jungles that bore
them. However, their outlook on the universe was fundamentally shaped
by their beginnings in a direction that humans would consider
paranoid, or at least profoundly pessimistic and somewhat untrusting,
though the Area merely see it as prudent recognition of how the
universe works.

This outlook was greatly reinforced by the Aera experience with the
nano-plague. The precocious Aera, unlike humans or Rlaan, developed
jump-based FTL before having otherwise left their solar system. The
resultant reactivation of the nano-plague and the devastation it
wrought on their population, served to gel their concept of an
inherently antagonistic universe. Aeran society greatly increased its
militarization, heretofore on the wane since global unification, so as
to better prepare for potential conflicts in what, evidenced by the
nano-plague, they presumed was an inhabited galaxy.

The Aera are the youngest of the three major groups, but are also the
most expansionist, fastest breeding, shortest lived, and devote the
highest fraction of their economy to military and military related R&D
spending. They are not evil, they are not delusional, they are not
irrational, but they have some fundamentally different assumptions
they are working from that make them somewhat difficult to get along
with. Finding out that their section of the jump network had them
pinned by the Humans and Rlaan, they first attempted to negotiate
passage, and were rebuffed. They then attempted to sneak a colony
convoy through Rlaan space, but this turned into an utter debacle
after Aeran escorts killed Rlaan Civilians, sparking a war lasting
several years, that churned the Rlaan-Aeran border into an
abattoir. Although formal peace has never been brokered between the
two, a cease-fire has been in effect for several years. As "upon the
coldest sea" begins, the Aera have now turned their sights toward
Human space, invading Forsaken territory, hoping to push through
toward the less defended Forsaken/Confederation border crossings,
carve a corridor through to the other side of humans space, and keep
it open long enough so that they can send enough colonization fleets
through to the other side to make the venture worthwhile.

2. What is their level of technology

This is a hard one to answer succinctly - I'm not sure what in
particular you were looking for, so I'll go with a sequence of
generalities, especially as it varies quite a bit from field to field.

Compared to 21st century humans (probably a useful point of reference for developers) really advanced. Really, really, advanced.

Compared to contemporary 33rd century humans, comparable or somewhat
more advanced in some of the physical sciences and their applications,
notably so with respect weaponizations of certain technologies. They
are noticeably behind in life sciences and AI.

3. What is the level of their development as a race? (in parallel to our world: developed country, developing country, etc) Maybe their primary industry would give us some insight. OF course, without making things up as you go. Just from what all players should already know.

Having been wandering the jump network for the least amount of time
(among the Rlaan/Humans/Aera), the Aera, though occupying the same
order of magnitude of systems as the Humans or the Rlaan
(Rlaan/Lmpl/Nuhln/Saahasayaay have most, followed by
Humans/Klk'k/Dgn/Purth/Mishtali, followed by Aera/Bzbr, then the much
smaller Uln, Shmrn) have not occupied many of them for nearly as
long. The Aera expanded in territory faster than that territory could
be developed up until running into the Uln. After one last push then
brought them to the Human and Rlaan borders as well, the Aera have
been racing to build up their newly settled colonies nearer the
borders, but the bulk of their industrial potential remains
concentrated in systems closer to their homeworld than to alien
space. This difference was especially clear during the Rlaan-Aera
conflict, wherein many newly settled Aeran colonies along the border
fell to the Rlaan assault, but the same Rlaan fleets were badly
bloodied when they tried to push into Aeran systems with more matured
defenses. Due to the war, Aeran military spending and infrastructure
development has been extravagant in comparison to human budgets, but
the Aera also had to cope with sizeable losses in personnel and
materiel.

While there are key differences between the level of population and
industrial development between the core colonies and the newer
colonies, due to the very strong central organizing forces in Aeran
governance and economy, this is not a deep political divide, nor an
economic one - it is merely a matter of the more fringe planets
growing as fast as they can into states undifferentiable from the more
core worlds. This centralization should not be taken as evidence that
Aerans are a selfless society of collectivists. Rather, the Aera have
a strong natural ability and desire to sublimate personal interests to
higher authority, a trait left over from their more pack-like
origins. Success, however, is still judged at individual granularity,
and Aera are entirely opportunistic about personal advancement when
the opportunity either does not come at the expense of the dictates of
higher authority, or places them into a position of higher authority.

4. In what sort of social/cultural context the race enjoys and consumes music in. (strong contrasts: "when vacuuming the house", or "during ritualistic sacrifices" will do)

The Aera are a bit musically reserved. They're a bit culturally dour
to begin with. Music is traditionally associated with either events at
one point associated with the spiritual concept of creation (the Aera
having had a creation/destruction dichotomy in their early
theology/philosophy), its more modern descendant, the continuation and
empowerment of the species, or organizational events, such as rallies,
sporting contests, and Military parades. Music for personal pleasure
is not a significant thread in Aeran culture. Instrument design has
progressed quite slowly, relative to the rest of their breakneck
technological improvements.

Events associated with death and mortality are not traditionally
musically accompanied, except as a death may have coincided with a
celebration-worthy accomplishment. Mortality is to be pondered and
meditated upon in its inevitability, not drowned in sound. It is worth
noting that it is not so much those that came before them that the
Aera cherish as the accomplishments of those who came before them. The
Aera perspective is that it is only though accomplishment on behalf of
the Aera that the Aera can continue, and the dead, thereby, can
continue to live in the memories of the Aera.

5. Also, in terms of ship/aircraft design, do we have a database of the most current images? (with the new engine) I think that's the most significant "characteristic" that the player actually comes into contact during game play that defines a race/faction, so I think it's best to use that as a guideline.

The Nicander and Ariston are good examples of Aeran small craft. The
Areus is somewhat less representative. We, as yet, have no Aeran
capital vessels that are representative of Aeran style. We have some
good concept art for some sub-capital vessels.

----

RLAAN

1. What is the brief history of each race that everyone knows about? Something that defines the color of a race.

The Rlaan are ammonia-blooded methane breathers, growing much more slowly
and living at rather lower temperatures than Oxygen-Nitrogen life
(such as Human, Aera, Klk'k etc.). Rlaan civilization is much older
than Human and Aeran civilizations, with their initial forays into
space coming before there were pyramids in Egypt. Fortunately for the
ambitions of other species, the Rlaan progress into space, like
several other aspects of their culture, has been slow and drenched in
structure. A key part of this slowness, however, does not seem to come
from the Rlaan, but from the nature of the jump network itself. The
constructors of the jump network seemed to greatly favor connecting
worlds hospitable to Oxygen-Nitrogen life, often leaving methane or
chlorine breathers with far less juicy selections. Fortunately,
especially in contrast to chlorine breathers, ammonia-methane
environments suitable for further xenoforming are relatively common,
even in the absence of developed life, or life-supporting worlds.

The Rlaan are organized around a dizzyingly complex bureaucracy, that
is perhaps only comprehendible by a being that is possessed of a mind
as parallel and structured as their own. At the head of it all is the
Rlaan Assembly, an apparently representative body, although the voting
methodology is profoundly arcane. It serves to legislate, and does so
tirelessly, even rewriting and appending Rlaan religious texts. The
Rlaan government is disproportionately full of sterile worker-defender
hybrids. Light-weight trends in Rlaan culture are ephemeral and many,
but the fundamental "Rlaan-ness" of their culture is very slow to
change. The pre-FTL isolation of the Rlaan colonies from the
motherworld produced minimal diversification over the centuries of
only trickling radio contact outside of localized trends in landscape
paintings. The Rlaan were the least affected by the nano-plague,
having never crafted a society built around nanites.

The Rlaan's first contact was with the stone-aged Saahasayaay, whom
they decided to co-opt into their empire, if not their society. Their
difficulties with the admittedly hard to like Saahasayaay prompted
them to experiment on pre-sapients when looking to build thinking
living-tools with whom they'd have to interact with frequently,
leading to the construction of the Lmpl and Nuhln. Later contact with
the Humans and Uln, and even later with the Aera, was greeted as a
wonderful opportunity for exchange of ideas, art, and more mundane
goods. The Rlaan found the Uln rather boorish, but certain sections of
the Rlaan population found Humans to be a subject of intense
curiosity, if also a cause of some alarm.

The Rlaan are actually 2 species, their defenders and workers having
speciated some 100,000 or so years ago. This split, a
civilian-military split, is utterly central to their culture and
being. Workers in Rlaan society are completely sacrosanct with respect
to military action or other acts of coordinated violence. To put it
vaguely in perspective (one can't really do it justice in brevity), in
the Rlaan mentality, they view any individual capable of willingly
killing a worker in something like <self-censored for public forum
posting -- let's just say something along the Ed Gein meets Andrei
Chikatilo lines>. Thus, the tendencies of non-Rlaan species to be less
particular about civilian deaths at military hands is profoundly
unsettling to Rlaan, and they are comfortable with such tendencies
only to the degree that they can imagine all members of a society to
be "defenders" which is in turn a very unsettling concept for them as
well. The Rlaan views on civilian death have generally been credited
with reducing the number of genocidal events since Rlaan contact.

2. What is their level of technology

Again, I'm not certain exactly what you were hoping for here. The
Rlaan, like the Aera and Humans are quite advanced by our meager 21st
century standards.

Rlaan curiosity often outpaces their imaginations. Their amassed
knowledge is more a function of the thousands of years of research
than a fundamental talent. What they have figured out, they have
tended to explore in obsessive depth, but often at the cost of breadth
of topics that would have perhaps appeared related to a human
observer. Rlaan mastery over genetic code is unmatched, whereas the
Shapers pursue beauty, art, and perfection in the genome, the Rlaan
produce living tools. However, while the concept of living tool is
clear for Rlaan, they tend to keep some separation between their
biological and mechanical research. It is unclear whether they see
bio-mechanical devices as inelegant, distasteful, boring, or even just
strange, but their pursuit of direct synthesis trails behind that of
humanity. They would rather craft a being designed to use mechanical
tools than integrate those tools and an operator. Research into
non-biological AIs is also quite stunted, but for trivially
intelligible reasons of economics and the adequacy of other solutions
dissuading further research. The Rlaan have excellent energy
generation, heat transfer, materials science, and shield technology.

3. What is the level of their development as a race? (in parallel to our world: developed country, developing country, etc) Maybe their primary industry would give us some insight. OF course, without making things up as you go. Just from what all players should already know.

Rlaan levels of industrialization are exceptionally high, and
remarkably uniform. Prior to meeting the Uln and Humans, the Rlaan did
not expand their borders far beyond what they considered a developed
system, instead pumping resources into their thin fringe of border
worlds until their border systems were developed enough to prompt
another colonization wave. Thus, ignoring the war ravaged Rlaan/Aeran
border, the Rlaan have the densest, most populated, most developed
worlds of any species as a whole. Only the Andolian worlds exhibit a
comparable degree of robust development.

However, the growth rate for the Rlaan is slow, and their worlds,
though developed, were never rich, as often being moons as actual
planets. In order to keep pace, both militarily and in expansion of
domain, with the faster moving species, the Rlaan are driving their
economy heavily. However, especially as one gets further from the
active Rlaan borders, the Rlaan standard of living is quite high,
itself a drag on the economy, with demands for luxury and other
non-essential items, and significant portions of the population
pursuing tasks that, at least to a human eye, seem tangential to
productivity. Additionally, there is the weight of the bureaucracy
itself, growing atop the Rlaan economy, and exacting its costs in
inefficiencies.

4. In what sort of social/cultural context the race enjoys and consumes music in. (strong contrasts: "when vacuuming the house", or "during ritualistic sacrifices" will do)

The Rlaan mind is highly parallel, but thinking is rather
structured. Rlaan art and music have some similar properties. There is
a tendency to see what, to a human may appear a noisy superposition,
but to a Rlaan, picking out components in parallel, is actually a set
of concurrent images or sounds. Rlaan invest significantly in arts and
entertainment, though the particulars of how they do so are often
influenced by their religious interpretation affiliation of the
moment. Art, both in image and sound, permeates Rlaan culture, with
individual construction and composition of art and music being even
more popular than mass consumption of the art and music of others, to
what is generally considered the grand democratic detriment of Rlaan
tastes. Cut-stitch-overlay, is a dominating aspect of both Rlaan art
and music, creating superficially complicated constructions out of
several almost numbingly simple pieces. One of the most common Rlaan
artforms involves remixing the work of others, splicing together video
and other sensory clips and then synching them to one's own musical
recordings.

Rlaan music is not generally a commodity considered suitable for
export, and what the Rlaan choose to import is often only dubiously
considered music. Comparisons are often drawn between Rlaan music and a contest between hyperactive carillon players, or other euphemistic expressions regarding many bells being rung at once. What one would consider wind instruments are notably lacking from traditional Rlaan arrangements.

5. Also, in terms of ship/aircraft design, do we have a database of
the most current images? (with the new engine) I think that's the
most significant "characteristic" that the player actually comes
into contact during game play that defines a race/faction, so I
think it's best to use that as a guideline.

The Shizu and Zhuangzong are good Rlaan small military craft. The Taizong slightly less so, but still good. The Ruizong and Shundi are good Rlaan capital vessels. Rlaan stations and civilian vessels are still works in progress.

----


So.... that about what people were looking for?


One other thing to mention, albeit a subject of somewhat lower priority - while we might know our own species incalculably better than we know aliens, we should not forget that the humans of 1200+ years from now may not all be intimately familiar figures anymore, especially those who have consciously chosen to walk upon increasingly distant paths. This is not a statement particular to the music forum. However, before anyone worries too much about that, at least for the purposes of this music forum, it's more pressing to continue working with the above template format until it is satisfactory to your needs. Once we have an adequate mutual understanding of the needs being addressed by the question templates, then we can continue with other alien groups before turning to address the foreign natures of relationships between current and future humanity (at least as concerns folks here - this may be a higher priority topic of discussion elsewhere).
Dominos Muris
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Post by Dominos Muris »

hi I wrote a really awsome rlaan mining base/relay/ship track I will let you have it once (if) I hunt it down. (very disorganized computer)
KHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNNNN!!!!!!!
you blood sucker
what is greater than god, more evil than the devil, rich people don't want it, and the poor have it?
Pipin: FEK! FRODOO IS DEAD EGIN!
Sam: no Mr. frodo! No! don't leave me like this!
Ahnold: STOP WHINING!!!
Me:...pretty ring...
Frodo: ITS MINE!!!
Sam: YOUR ALIVE!!
Gandolf: NOOOOOOO! STAY DEAD! *blast of deadly magic*
Dominos Muris
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Post by Dominos Muris »

How much does an aera weigh anyway, I always want to know these things because I've always wanted to grab onto an aera neck AND SQUEEZE UNTIL ITS HEAD POPS OFF, RAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!! :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
KHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNNNN!!!!!!!
you blood sucker
what is greater than god, more evil than the devil, rich people don't want it, and the poor have it?
Pipin: FEK! FRODOO IS DEAD EGIN!
Sam: no Mr. frodo! No! don't leave me like this!
Ahnold: STOP WHINING!!!
Me:...pretty ring...
Frodo: ITS MINE!!!
Sam: YOUR ALIVE!!
Gandolf: NOOOOOOO! STAY DEAD! *blast of deadly magic*
klauss
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Post by klauss »

Dominos Muris wrote:How much does an aera weigh anyway, I always want to know these things because I've always wanted to grab onto an aera neck AND SQUEEZE UNTIL ITS HEAD POPS OFF, RAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!! :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
Hm... seemingly unrelated to music, but not so after some thought.
Think: it's common practice to change music styles according to "massiveness". Accomplishing a "massive" sound is pretty straight-forward, and many musicians rely on that. Things like that should also be part of the racial description. Rough numbers, of course, only to get an idea.
Oíd mortales, el grito sagrado...
Call me "Menes, lord of Cats"
Wing Commander Universe
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Post by kensuguro »

hey, so no ideas from jack's post yet? Perhaps I should start a new thread starting with jack's post, so we can start digesting his ideas?
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Post by klauss »

Group digestion?
I don't know - I think it's more of an individual task.
Of course, questions can be posted.

Right now, I think, people should try to find fitting themes for the three major groups. That's done with trial and error, I think, so I'd say we should formally open a "call for themes". After the racial styles are somewhat defined, I'd guess, but that's probably not strictly necessary. (themes can be varied and adjusted afterwards).
Oíd mortales, el grito sagrado...
Call me "Menes, lord of Cats"
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Post by kensuguro »

gotcha. Also read your other thread. I'll see if I can come up with some sketches, and we'll just go from there. I doubt it matters what the starting point is, it'll probably be much easier once we have something concrete to talk about.

anyone else, please give thoughts / ideas about the styles.. I'm really squeezing these in between work so, it'll be nice if those who are currently heavily playing vegastrike could contribute some ideas. I mean, I haven't really gotten into it in a while.. just several test runs now and then..
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Post by kensuguro »

jack, I finally got some time to go through your post in detail.. (on my boss's clock!) Meticulous detail, you have a flair with words.

Anyhow, about the information, both description of the aeran and rlaan were helpful. These would serve very well for the music brainstorm and also just as an introduction for new player.

Perhaps we should change the format just a bit. The "history" part is good as it is. I think I needed to be a little more clear in the "level of technology". Perhaps we should change that to "what is the primary field of research / development, and which fields get ignored".

One thing that really helped about the Aerans, was their basic structure of emotion, which is based on danger, death (from nano-plague and dangerous environments in general). That's something tha can create alot of inspiration for musical ideas. So, it'll be great if you can throw in one fundamental emotion, the reason it exists, and what the emotion drives the specific race to do.

So, I guess the revised list is:
1. history (combined with fundamental emotion, reason, and result of the emotion)
2. main interests of the race, and what they're not interested in. "Values"
3. What is the level of their development as a race? (in parallel to our world: developed country, developing country, etc) Maybe their primary industry would give us some insight. OF course, without making things up as you go. Just from what all players should already know.

Can you do one for humans when you get some time? thnx.
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Great progress!!!

Post by nsmadsen »

Hey crew,

I'm sorry that I've been offline for so long. There have been many changes in my life recently- but all of them good ones! :)

Okay, so I had the chance to meet for a while with Mike this morning and I wanted to give my input on the music progress. I'm afraid I'm probably not going to state anything new as the posts have been very thorough and well thought out.

I really like the approach you all are taking towards the music. Keeping standard themes will help the music have uniformity. Also using a set library of patches will help keep the music sounding like its from the same quality. I've scanned through three threads, and will echo or add in my own two cents. Sorry if some of this has already been covered.

Below are some random thoughts:

For sounds:
I'd suggest using East West samples if anyone has them. I have three: Symphonic Orchestra, Colossus and Stormdrum. Next month I'll be getting Choirs as well. I may be biased, but these are the best sounding, easiest to work with sample out there. At my day job, we use Logic and Protools and have NI Komplete and Vienna Symphonic Libraries. Vienna has some decent sounds- but overall East West wins by a land slide. At least in my book. But I digress...my point is if you want really realistic orchestra sounds- check out East West or have a member of the crew that owns libraries. You can listen to some samples of Eastwest here: www.madsenstudios.com and click on "orchestral sample"

For orchestration:
This is, in my opinion, the most important part of the music creating process. Composition is extremely important- yes- but even simple themes can be brought to life with a quality orchestration. Likewise, great themes can be ruined with a lously orchestration attempt. I would strongly urge you get the best people you have orchestating as much as possible. For those that do not know- orchestration involved everything from what instrument plays what lines to the panning and EQ of the group. This is what seperates good music from amazing music.

For themes:
I love the idea of making standard themes. Post them in general MIDI so they can be adapted to new version for different parts of the game. Also have them in the creative commons and giving credit where it is due is great.

General tips:
*Keeping the same key or closely related keys will help with continuity. *Also keeping the same basic orchestration for different parts of the game will help and is particularly effective when the melody instrument (or melody itself) is changed slightly.
*Space is important, don't forget that silence is just as important as the notes are.
*Give the game plenty of pacing- try and spread out the styles and orchestration as much as possible. People are going to be listening to this music for hours at a time. Making smaller variants of the music can help the gameplay (i.e. combat theme changes when you are about to die or gets more heroic as you kick butt)

Like I said before, I've probably only echoed what's already been stated. These are just things I've learned or observed while writing for different projects. I think you are all off to a great start!!!

I'm available to help in any way possible. Again, sorry for the long absence, but now I'll be more available.

Hope that helps!!

Nathan
Nathan Madsen
Audio Specialist
www.madsenstudios.com
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