someone to replace sound effects?

For collaboration between the different artists creating music and sound for vegastrike.
kensuguro
Artisan
Artisan
Posts: 59
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2003 1:06 pm
Location: NY, NY
Contact:

someone to replace sound effects?

Post by kensuguro »

has anyone taken a stab at new sound effects yet?

I understand the music's quite a lot of work to replace... some of my stuff sound crazy out of place (lol), but anyway, I was thinking today that at least the sound effects could be replaced with considerably less effort. Anyone willing to take a stab?

Problem is, I used to be able to test all the sounds cuz I was that far into the game, but now I need to rebuild my ship and weaponry just to be able to test it.. and I definitely don't have time for that..

C'mon, you guys have been complaining for this long.. (I feel they sound dated too) surely someone's up to change them.

Also, one thing that you could do, is to do a video capture of the particular soundeffect you feel should be changed, and then I can use the video as a guide to make the replacement.

Anyway, just throwing it out there. I'm playing x3 reunion now, and gradually being pulled back into the Elite space. lol.
klauss
Elite
Elite
Posts: 7243
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2005 2:40 pm
Location: LS87, Buenos Aires, República Argentina

Re: someone to replace sound effects?

Post by klauss »

kensuguro wrote:has anyone taken a stab at new sound effects yet?

I understand the music's quite a lot of work to replace... some of my stuff sound crazy out of place (lol), but anyway, I was thinking today that at least the sound effects could be replaced with considerably less effort. Anyone willing to take a stab?
I had all the intention of doing so but none of the time.
It was up there on the list, though, and I have ideas I can't still put into words but are clearly represented as sounds in my mind.
kensuguro wrote:Problem is, I used to be able to test all the sounds cuz I was that far into the game, but now I need to rebuild my ship and weaponry just to be able to test it.. and I definitely don't have time for that..
What kinds of sounds do you need tested?

Late VS has an audio test you can run by invoking VS with "--test-audio" (IIRC) that plays out a series of fake scenes (audio only, no graphics whatsoever, it was kind of like a unit-test I made). But it could be useful for testing new sounds too, just tell us what tests you'd find useful and maybe we can add them there.
Oíd mortales, el grito sagrado...
Call me "Menes, lord of Cats"
Wing Commander Universe
Deus Siddis
Elite
Elite
Posts: 1363
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2007 3:42 pm

Re: someone to replace sound effects?

Post by Deus Siddis »

kensuguro wrote: Problem is, I used to be able to test all the sounds cuz I was that far into the game, but now I need to rebuild my ship and weaponry just to be able to test it.. and I definitely don't have time for that..
I think you'd get way better results anyway if you tried to go for maximum quality, realism and authenticity, taking minimal inspiration from what's currently in the game.

Don't limit your sound working abilities to making say a laser firing sound that matches the probably so-so visual effects and balance of a particular "OC Laser MKII" weapon, for example.

Just make the best laser sound effects you can imagine and then create modifications of different durations and intensities and for vacuum versus atmospheric firing, etc. Then take the same approach for missiles, engines, impacts, docking clamps, etc. And we can apply your library of sound effects to whichever devices and events we are using at the time (probably other free projects will too).
kensuguro
Artisan
Artisan
Posts: 59
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2003 1:06 pm
Location: NY, NY
Contact:

Re: someone to replace sound effects?

Post by kensuguro »

Well, thats the thing.. I usually Spend lots of effort time and model the sounds the suite specific visuals, which is part of why i do it for work now. But i guess i can do them genericaly.. I timed most of the original sounds perfecly to the visuals at the time but... Well, i guess the visuals evolve over time. And my sounds stick around for eternity.

Do we have an up to date list of required sounds? I dont remember how many grades of each weapons there were, or what events had sound effects hooks.. Im sure there are more sound hooks by now.. Itd be nice to know how each weapon works too if there's anything special about them. Im mainly interested in the mechanical movements and any other physical phenomenona, including non visible, involved in creating the shot.

Theres a database of weapon type, rate of fire, damage, range right. Just that will help

I most definitely want to take out the launch failure joke. That was stupid. Lol
Boaal
Hunter
Hunter
Posts: 93
Joined: Sun May 06, 2007 6:43 pm

Re: someone to replace sound effects?

Post by Boaal »

I can make a few music tracks up, I don't know how fitting any of them would be though - I never really know how they're going turn out.
Do we need anything specific?
The Twitching Pattern - http://www.last.fm/music/The+Twitching+Pattern
Have a listen.
klauss
Elite
Elite
Posts: 7243
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2005 2:40 pm
Location: LS87, Buenos Aires, República Argentina

Re: someone to replace sound effects?

Post by klauss »

I've been working on sound scripting support, which is kind of the ability to make sound hooks composed of several sound files played according to some script.

It would enable us to create more varied sound effects out of a handful of basic components.

The specs aren't finished yet, but in the meantime, I believe there wasn't much that changed engine-wise since the old times. Once the "soundscripts" are finished, though, it will be a wholly different thing.
Oíd mortales, el grito sagrado...
Call me "Menes, lord of Cats"
Wing Commander Universe
Deus Siddis
Elite
Elite
Posts: 1363
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2007 3:42 pm

Re: someone to replace sound effects?

Post by Deus Siddis »

kensuguro wrote: Itd be nice to know how each weapon works too if there's anything special about them. Im mainly interested in the mechanical movements and any other physical phenomenona, including non visible, involved in creating the shot.
Okay well for weapons the game has a small handful of basic weapon technologies:

Missiles (wide ranging accelerations, payloads and guidance systems or lack thereof)
Guns (railguns and coilguns plus combinations thereof, but maybe some exposive or plasma based accelerators also)
Lasers (plus minor "variations" like masers)
Particle Beams (neutral or charged, both minor variations)
Plasma (mostly ball lightning, possibly with guided variants, and also less organized plasma 'throwers)
Theres a database of weapon type, rate of fire, damage, range right. Just that will help
The trouble is this could all largely change in the future, since the game's arsenal doesn't seem to have ever been fully balanced ever. From what I have seen of it so far, it looks like we have too many, too similar light craft weapons and largely unbalanced heavy ship weapons.
I most definitely want to take out the launch failure joke. That was stupid. Lol
Only because it happens at random, without cause or consequence.

If it happened when you tried to launch from a port on a ship with no installed engines or reactors (thereby rendering it immobile) that would be funny. Because the player did something obviously stupid and the game is laughing at them for it, while they sit there unable to launch from the docking area. :)
kensuguro
Artisan
Artisan
Posts: 59
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2003 1:06 pm
Location: NY, NY
Contact:

Re: someone to replace sound effects?

Post by kensuguro »

Okay well for weapons the game has a small handful of basic weapon technologies:

Missiles (wide ranging accelerations, payloads and guidance systems or lack thereof)
Guns (railguns and coilguns plus combinations thereof, but maybe some exposive or plasma based accelerators also)
Lasers (plus minor "variations" like masers)
Particle Beams (neutral or charged, both minor variations)
Plasma (mostly ball lightning, possibly with guided variants, and also less organized plasma 'throwers)

are there any special ones within those? Otherwise ill just do small, medium and large, and maybe a crazy big version of eath. (not necc size, but as in grade)
klauss
Elite
Elite
Posts: 7243
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2005 2:40 pm
Location: LS87, Buenos Aires, República Argentina

Re: someone to replace sound effects?

Post by klauss »

Do inside sounds + outside sounds.

There's no support for it, but adding it is really trivial.

Sounds you hear when someone else shoots should be different than those you hear when you shoot.
Oíd mortales, el grito sagrado...
Call me "Menes, lord of Cats"
Wing Commander Universe
Deus Siddis
Elite
Elite
Posts: 1363
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2007 3:42 pm

Re: someone to replace sound effects?

Post by Deus Siddis »

kensuguro wrote:are there any special ones within those?
There are, but as Klauss said they might best be made out of reusable, modular sounds that are mixed in-engine. Examples:

Missiles

With missiles there are three stages and each has potential variations.

The first part is the initial launch. On the most basic launchers no special sound will be played here, or you might hear a launch door opening. But if the missile is a rocket assisted projectile (a rocket shot out of a cannon) then you might here one of the gun noises. So you have launch doors opening and sounds from different guns that will get mixed into this stage an some missile weapons; both of those sounds should be highly reusable for other things (mainly hull doors and guns :) ).

The next stage is the thrust coming off the missile itself when it is fired, or does a close flyby (your ship being buffeted by its wake of reaction mass maybe) or when it is traveling through an atmosphere (where things generally make more noise than in space). One of the main variations here will probably be between rockets with higher specific impulse versus greater thrust. The former has a higher speed, lower density of reaction mass flying out the back, while the latter has lower speed, higher density. What this difference sounds like I'm not sure, maybe just volume and pitch differences. Also these sounds should be fully reusable for ship thrusters as well (if maybe not for the ship the player is currently flying around inside of).

Final stage is the impact. This depends mostly on the warhead and the warhead can be basically the same technology type as any other weapon in the game. So the sound effects should mostly be reused from the other weapon sound effects. You can have kinetic (pure impact), explosive, charged particle (electrical noises maybe, like arcs, shorts), nuclear/antimatter, bomb pumped laser.

Guns

In space these would only have two stages of sounds- firing and impact, but in atmosphere you could hear them flying past you as well.

Actually the firing stage might sometimes be than one overlapping sound. First you have the accelerating force, be it purely electromagnetic or an explosion of chemical accelerant or a rapidly expanding plasma. Then you might have the sound of the barrel/ship vibrating or ringing or whatever, from any direct contact between the projectile and the barrel of the weapon. Finally, there might be a coolant pumping or flushing noise.

Lasers

Probably just reused electrical and coolant noises from above. Having different durations are important here though this might a single loop-able sound. Short pulsed and longer sustained bursts should both sound good. Also it is really important that lasers sound powerful and energetic and deadly effective in their own kind of way (the current beam sound effects in general don't have much punch).

A laser hit would probably sound like the target hull vaporizing, temporarily warping and permanently bending. (Again this might best be separate sounds as Klauss said, and they'd get reused for other things). Supporting different durations is important here as well.

Particle Beams

Particle beams are probably somewhat similar to lasers, except they have real kinetic energy. So when firing you might hear some kind of loud rushing noise as the about-to-be-charged gas enters the weapon system. This might sound faster, harsher and gaseous than liquid versus the coolant rush sound.

A hit from a particle beam would again have similarities to the laser, but there would be some kind of loud rushing impact (like hitting aluminum siding with a fire hose times 1000) and/or something in the neighborhood of a thunder clap. In addition, for none-neutral particle beams you would have "electrical damage" noises like electrical arcs inside the ship or systems shorting out.

Plasma

Ball lightning plasma weapons should be similar to particle beams except that they push out more matter at slower speeds. Maybe this means a pitch difference? Also while you might have sustained rushing gas and coolant noises mixed in with firing, the actual firing sound is never really sustained like with particle beams (and lasers). Finally, on impact the ball lightning will rupture and rapidly expand or explode, so a sound for this rapid expansion/explosion should be needed (and reusable for plasma cannons firing).

But then with "plasmathrowers" sustainable, loopable sounds are needed and maybe a less violent (perhaps also sustainable) noise for the "slower" expansion.
Otherwise ill just do small, medium and large, and maybe a crazy big version of each. (not necc size, but as in grade)
Actually getting the feeling of different sizes is way more important than getting that of different grades. In fact don't even think about grades, assuming by that you mean different levels of quality or advanced-ness for different weapon systems. We have huge scale diversity and so what we really need are size differences.

Though maybe this would all get handled more by Klauss' in-engine sound mixer, adjusting pitch, volume and falloff and spawning chains of "child" sound events that grow longer and more complex for larger weapon systems.
kensuguro
Artisan
Artisan
Posts: 59
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2003 1:06 pm
Location: NY, NY
Contact:

Re: someone to replace sound effects?

Post by kensuguro »

cool, your descriptions help a lot. I'll start assembling material.
Turbo
ISO Party Member
ISO Party Member
Posts: 423
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2007 11:54 am
Location: TX, USA
Contact:

Re: someone to replace sound effects?

Post by Turbo »

I like the way you're thinking, Deus.

Reference the laser hit, how about "sizzle"? I've boiled metal once or twice, and the sound was similar (but louder) to an ice cube dropped on a hot oiled grill.
Turbo

There are two speeds in combat: stopped, and as fast as you can go. Unless you run into something, going fast keeps you alive more often than stopping.
Deus Siddis
Elite
Elite
Posts: 1363
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2007 3:42 pm

Re: someone to replace sound effects?

Post by Deus Siddis »

Sounds like a good idea.
kensuguro
Artisan
Artisan
Posts: 59
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2003 1:06 pm
Location: NY, NY
Contact:

Re: someone to replace sound effects?

Post by kensuguro »

gone back to the drawing board and created new synths for generating some of the laser sounds. This time I'll be going for a more realistic sound..
klauss
Elite
Elite
Posts: 7243
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2005 2:40 pm
Location: LS87, Buenos Aires, República Argentina

Re: someone to replace sound effects?

Post by klauss »

Then let me remind you: one thing is when the laser is being fired from your ship, the sound is the laser's mechanism, and another is when one hits you, the sound being the reaction of your ship transmitted across the shields and hull.
Oíd mortales, el grito sagrado...
Call me "Menes, lord of Cats"
Wing Commander Universe
kensuguro
Artisan
Artisan
Posts: 59
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2003 1:06 pm
Location: NY, NY
Contact:

Re: someone to replace sound effects?

Post by kensuguro »

I still have a hard time conceptualizing what a laser (or any energy weapon) hitting a shield sounds like.. hard to imagine. Energy weapons hitting the hull is easier since at least the hull side is physical matter and is made up of something we know. What the heck are shields made of?

I do imagine when shields take damage, it takes a huge charge of electricity, or some alternative form of power to immediately start recharging. So while the energy weapon's impact won't cause any significant impact sound (perhaps a low frequency buzz, but not impact sound) but the sound of charging or the charging mechanism may be the most prominent sound.

The hull impact will probably be just a "whiishh" type melting sound right. The laser's not a physical impact, but the energy causes immediate heat damage, and maybe some metal stress sound as the parts adjust to the new damaged state.

Anyway, interesting just to think of these things in slow motion, tickles the engineer and creative mind at the same time. Some may argue they should be the same mind..
Deus Siddis
Elite
Elite
Posts: 1363
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2007 3:42 pm

Re: someone to replace sound effects?

Post by Deus Siddis »

kensuguro wrote:I still have a hard time conceptualizing what a laser (or any energy weapon) hitting a shield sounds like.. hard to imagine. Energy weapons hitting the hull is easier since at least the hull side is physical matter and is made up of something we know. What the heck are shields made of?
Shields are composed of a total lack of common sense and understanding of high school level physical science by ancient fiction writers who've been dead for over fifty years. :roll:

In other words, shields are made of bullshit. Except maybe in the Halo game series' universe where they are made of plasma, which may or may not be bullshit in the context of explaining "shields". Plasma is probably the only possible explanation that interacts with most weapon types however. And the sound of this interaction could probably be the same regardless of the weapon type, would be my guess.
The hull impact will probably be just a "whiishh" type melting sound right. The laser's not a physical impact, but the energy causes immediate heat damage, and maybe some metal stress sound as the parts adjust to the new damaged state.
I think that is accurate.
Anyway, interesting just to think of these things in slow motion, tickles the engineer and creative mind at the same time. Some may argue they should be the same mind.
For a good science fiction setting, you really do need both to make it believable, IMO.
klauss
Elite
Elite
Posts: 7243
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2005 2:40 pm
Location: LS87, Buenos Aires, República Argentina

Re: someone to replace sound effects?

Post by klauss »

kensuguro wrote:I still have a hard time conceptualizing what a laser (or any energy weapon) hitting a shield sounds like.. hard to imagine. Energy weapons hitting the hull is easier since at least the hull side is physical matter and is made up of something we know. What the heck are shields made of?

I do imagine when shields take damage, it takes a huge charge of electricity, or some alternative form of power to immediately start recharging. So while the energy weapon's impact won't cause any significant impact sound (perhaps a low frequency buzz, but not impact sound) but the sound of charging or the charging mechanism may be the most prominent sound.
The latest "official" canon describes shields as localized topology changes in space-time, meaning, space warping a-la SPEC.

I imagine a hit to shields to cause the space deformation to collapse in some way, probably propagating some minor warping toward the ship - not enough to do damage, but enough to cause pressure waves throughout the ship - sound.

The sound I imagine as notch-shaped noise - ie, noise with all its powered concentrated around a narrow frequency band, because of hull and shield bubble resonance one could imagine.

That said, ships of different types would have different shield sounds, with different frequency distributions.

I also imagine more chaotic "spark"-like sounds caused by smaller but more powerful warp bursts in response to more powerful hits, kind of like those spark-sounding fireworks, and with very long high-pitched resonance.

kensuguro wrote:The hull impact will probably be just a "whiishh" type melting sound right. The laser's not a physical impact, but the energy causes immediate heat damage, and maybe some metal stress sound as the parts adjust to the new damaged state.
Weaponized laser would sublimate hull sections. The sound wouldn't be melting-like, but more explosive, as vaporized hull explodes outward into space, and crackling, as heat stress creates cracks and stress fractures across the internal structure.

Xasers and other high-energy waveforms would also electrically charge the hull, creating sparks and electrical noises.
Oíd mortales, el grito sagrado...
Call me "Menes, lord of Cats"
Wing Commander Universe
Deus Siddis
Elite
Elite
Posts: 1363
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2007 3:42 pm

Re: someone to replace sound effects?

Post by Deus Siddis »

klauss wrote: The latest "official" canon describes shields as localized topology changes in space-time, meaning, space warping a-la SPEC.

I imagine a hit to shields to cause the space deformation to collapse in some way, probably propagating some minor warping toward the ship - not enough to do damage, but enough to cause pressure waves throughout the ship - sound.
More specifically though, the canon says:
Universe Document wrote:LASERS and other coherent EM radiation - hard to get a beam of light to interact strongly with this setup at all (unless one assumes that photons passing through the distorted topology can be convinced to dump energy and shift down the frequency spectrum in return for degrading the desired topology - but the more that I've thought about that, the less it appeals to me, so let's not spend much time there) but it might interact weakly, de-focusing the beam. For low frequency radiation, de-focusing is going to be quite detrimental (in terms of the likelihood of armor being capable of dealing with incoming beam) but one imagines that xasers and grasers are still going to be quite damaging even if the incoming beam is distorted and defocused. Hence, at best, fair protection against low end laser weapons, to negligible protection against high-end laser weapons.
(Emphasis added.)

This suggests no direct interaction between the laser and 'shield'. The laser, traveling through distorted space, hits a wider section of the armor, thus spreading out the delivered energy but not reducing it.

So if we stick with the current, canon shields, then it looks like the only thing you would hear is the laser hitting the armor with somewhat less destructiveness. The shield interaction wouldn't make any noise in this case.
charlieg
Elite Mercenary
Elite Mercenary
Posts: 1329
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2003 11:51 pm
Location: Manchester, UK
Contact:

Re: someone to replace sound effects?

Post by charlieg »

No, but the sound would be different - a focused bolt hitting a smaller area probably makes more noise.
Free Gamer - free software games compendium and commentary!
FreeGameDev forum - open source game development community
Deus Siddis
Elite
Elite
Posts: 1363
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2007 3:42 pm

Re: someone to replace sound effects?

Post by Deus Siddis »

Yeah but that's probably not a content issue. Either the engine handles that volume adjustment dynamically or it plays a "lower intensity" laser hit sound effect, like one normally used for a hit from a smaller laser weapon.

Further, each weapon sound effect might be composited together and modified by the engine, using a library of basic sound files (metal vaporizing, metal warping, electrical arcing, hull breach, fire alarm, etc.) I think this approach is what Klauss recommended earlier.

So the primary task for the content creating sound engineer is to provide these basic sounds.
klauss
Elite
Elite
Posts: 7243
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2005 2:40 pm
Location: LS87, Buenos Aires, República Argentina

Re: someone to replace sound effects?

Post by klauss »

Regarding content, good question.

I'd think it's easier if the engine simply plays a laser shield-hit. The content (and the effect, given lasers would have phase damage - ie, go right through shields) would match a hull hit, but from the engine POV, it should play a shield-hit perhaps.

Or perhaps it should mix shield hit (defocused) with hull hit (focused) and adjust volumes according to how much defocusing has taken place.

In any case, both versions of the sound would be required, and the technique would be applicable to almost all other weapon types.
Oíd mortales, el grito sagrado...
Call me "Menes, lord of Cats"
Wing Commander Universe
Turbo
ISO Party Member
ISO Party Member
Posts: 423
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2007 11:54 am
Location: TX, USA
Contact:

Re: someone to replace sound effects?

Post by Turbo »

Maybe it doesn't matter if energy weapons (or any weapons) make a sound hitting the shield. Perhaps the player's ship's shield mechanisms make a sound when they lose power as a result of the laser hit, and that is what the player/pilot hears, in addition to hull hit effect if anything gets through the shield.
Turbo

There are two speeds in combat: stopped, and as fast as you can go. Unless you run into something, going fast keeps you alive more often than stopping.
klauss
Elite
Elite
Posts: 7243
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2005 2:40 pm
Location: LS87, Buenos Aires, República Argentina

Re: someone to replace sound effects?

Post by klauss »

Hey... I just fleshed out the shield hit concept, within the limitations of the current engine, and committed it.

Take a look (listen?) and let me know what you think.
Oíd mortales, el grito sagrado...
Call me "Menes, lord of Cats"
Wing Commander Universe
Deus Siddis
Elite
Elite
Posts: 1363
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2007 3:42 pm

Re: someone to replace sound effects?

Post by Deus Siddis »

They sound great to my (untrained) ears.

The "shieldhit3short" feels like a heavier impact and "shieldhit4short" feels like a lighter one.
Post Reply