Brainstorming: commercial advertising

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Turbo
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Brainstorming: commercial advertising

Post by Turbo »

Hey team! The "completely different" thread
http://vegastrike.sourceforge.net/forum ... 29&t=14815
is going so many directions that it is getting hard to follow.

So, I'd like to create this new thread, to gather ideas for advertising in addition to what we already have collected at
http://vegastrike.sourceforge.net/media ... ommercials

Currently we have only a few full-length commercials. We can easily develop sponsorship snippets from the full length commercials or from related content already developed. But we need ideas for more full length commercials, and actors to voice them. Variety is good. Use your favorite TV or radio commercial, or your favorite cargo from VS, as inspiration.
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Re: Brainstorming: commercial advertising

Post by Turbo »

We need at least one law firm, something like: "Were you injured in a pirate attack while traveling on a passenger liner? Did your ship suffer collateral damage through military action in which you did not take part? Call the law firms of Dewey, Cheatem, and Howe, and get the money you deserve. We don't get paid until you get paid. Just say, "I want my money" to activate the hyperlink for this ad, and you'll be talking to one of our attorneys in moments. Don't wait, call today!"

We need a less obvious joke for the law firm's name, of course. And in the future, I'm sure that any ad (even one that's purely audio) would have an interface for the audience to get in touch with the vendor. Such a capability is, technically, only slightly more complex than "click here to go to our web site" that we have now.
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Re: Brainstorming: commercial advertising

Post by jduhls »

Lawer/firm name from "Arrested Development": Bob Loblaw
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Re: Brainstorming: commercial advertising

Post by Turbo »

jduhls wrote:Lawer/firm name from "Arrested Development": Bob Loblaw
I haven't seen the show. How does the law firm's commercial go?
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Re: Brainstorming: commercial advertising

Post by jasonkarllees »

"Where you injured in a pirate attack while traveling on a passenger liner? ripped off by that dogey robot for a drink that just didn`t taste quite right Did your ship suffer collateral damage through military action in which you did not take part? got acoused for murder you didn`t evan commit? Call the law firms of Dewey, Cheatem, and Howe, and get the money you deserve. We don't get paid until you get paid. Just say,"(firm name)" to activate the hyperlink for this ad, and you'll be talking to one of our attorneys in moments. Don't wait, call today!"

just minor changes
it would make sence to say the firm name not "I want my money" because imagine http://www.injurylawyers4u.co.uk/index2.html was http://www.nowinnofeejustmoney.co.uk it won`t make sence
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Re: Brainstorming: commercial advertising

Post by chuck_starchaser »

Not trying to rain on this parade, but... Are we striving to make the Vegastrike universe as identical as possible to present day society? Asking because, when measured against human history, this phenomenon of rampant commercialism and advertising everywhere you look or hear, is like the proverbial 'last millisecond'. If you ask me, I think people are so fed up with commercials that as soon as law and order succumb to the soon to come global economic collapse, and peoples everywhere start taking justice in their own hands, corporate heads will start to roll, and with them, those of politicians, bankers, lawyers, and particularly advertisers. Anyone even suspected of having worked on marketing or advertising will probably end up beheaded and even their offspring might be terminated. That's how fed up of commercials I think most people are, consciously or not; and if I'm right, the mistakes of this last millisecond of human history will probably not be repeated.
Not that I'm suggesting a deep futurology analysis of Vegastrike; but avoiding the most obvious and common mistakes in amateur futurology wouldn't be a terribly bad idea. It seems that in everything we do, we project the present into the future without even a question: Same type of economics, replace sea ships with space ships. Bars... Have bars always existed; will they always exist? --AND exactly as they are today? Lots of the music is trendy by today's standard, ambient, new age, 4x4, drum and bass base... Now throw-in advertising? Seems as if we were deliberately trying to depict a future that is an exact image of our present cultural values, --or lack thereof; but maybe it's just me.
Well, this is typical in literature or theater or film when the objective of the work is to deliver a critique of --at the time-- present society. But is Vegastrike's background a critique of present day society?
WC-Privateer was, in a way, a sattire on present day society (with Hunter Toth's face looking like Salman Rushdie's, for example), but I'm not sure Vegastrike's purpose is as social critique or sattire. If so, disregard this post; but if not, perhaps this tendency to make every detail about the future reflect the present exactly should be looked at.
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Re: Brainstorming: commercial advertising

Post by Turbo »

chuck_starchaser wrote:Not trying to rain on this parade, but...
You're not. You are providing a dissenting opinion in a discussion about what we might do with the game. While consensus is great, unanymity is dangerous. So you're doing us a service.
chuck_starchaser wrote:Are we striving to make the Vegastrike universe as identical as possible to present day society?
Not my call. What I hope we are doing is making a fun game. As for advertising in tht game, I think that a thousand years is not enought to change human nature. I am also concerned about game immersion -- people are comfortable with what is familiar and pay closer attention to what is not. Advertising is familiar and makes good background. In our case, we are using it to tell the VS story in new ways. But if we are inadvertently making predictions, then we are merely predicting how a known quantity (human behavior) will change in different circumstances and with different tools.
chuck_starchaser wrote:Asking because, when measured against human history, this phenomenon of rampant commercialism and advertising everywhere you look or hear, is like the proverbial 'last millisecond'.
I disagree. Trade in one form or another has always been around. And trade does not occur without some form of advertising. Medieval craftsmen put up signs outside their shops. Cavemen made paintings that were, probably, a description of their prowess as hunters. In some places, people dressed differently to mark their professions. None of that is new, we just have different tools now and will have other tools in the future.
chuck_starchaser wrote:If you ask me, I think people are so fed up with commercials that as soon as law and order succumb to the soon to come global economic collapse, and peoples everywhere start taking justice in their own hands, corporate heads will start to roll, and with them, those of politicians, bankers, lawyers, and particularly advertisers. Anyone even suspected of having worked on marketing or advertising will probably end up beheaded and even their offspring might be terminated. That's how fed up of commercials I think most people are, consciously or not; and if I'm right, the mistakes of this last millisecond of human history will probably not be repeated.
Wow. I had a bad day at work but this seems pessimistic beyond compare. I don't have great faith in the common-sense level of the average person, but the only people I know who complain about advertising (1) know on some level that without it, much of what they get for free now wouldn't be free and (2) complain about other things without taking any action. And while other issues are prompting people to commit murder (abortion, religion, etc), I've never heard anyone show violent thoughts about advertising before now.
chuck_starchaser wrote:Not that I'm suggesting a deep futurology analysis of Vegastrike; but avoiding the most obvious and common mistakes in amateur futurology wouldn't be a terribly bad idea.
Like a "Max Headroom" prediction of society's impending collapse? :wink: That's the trouble with futurology -- you don't know what was a mistake until later.
chuck_starchaser wrote:It seems that in everything we do, we project the present into the future without even a question: Same type of economics, replace sea ships with space ships. Bars... Have bars always existed; will they always exist? --AND exactly as they are today? Lots of the music is trendy by today's standard, ambient, new age, 4x4, drum and bass base... Now throw-in advertising? Seems as if we were deliberately trying to depict a future that is an exact image of our present cultural values, --or lack thereof; but maybe it's just me.
Apparently, bars will exist in the future but, unlike today, they will usually be empty, lack the big TVs with sports channels playing, and the only staff will consist of a single robot of variable form. As to your point, maybe so. Did you see the movie "Minority Report?" There's a view of advertising gone to an extreme when enabled by technology.
chuck_starchaser wrote:Well, this is typical in literature or theater or film when the objective of the work is to deliver a critique of --at the time-- present society. But is Vegastrike's background a critique of present day society?
You'll have to ask the dev team. I doubt it, and I hope not.
chuck_starchaser wrote:WC-Privateer was, in a way, a sattire on present day society (with Hunter Toth's face looking like Salman Rushdie's, for example),
Is it satire, or an attempt to provide familiarity in background material to better highlight the foreground? Or maybe it was lazy writers borrowing from real life.
chuck_starchaser wrote:but I'm not sure Vegastrike's purpose is as social critique or sattire. If so, disregard this post; but if not, perhaps this tendency to make every detail about the future reflect the present exactly should be looked at.
I hope that VS is not intended as a social critique. But I don't think we're recreating modern society exactly. Let's see what others think.
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Re: Brainstorming: commercial advertising

Post by pheonixstorm »

Not matter what the timeline there will always be a need to advertise your product, only the format has change over the last couple thousand years. Long ago you yelled at people as they passed your stall in the market square or relied on word of mouth, now its the annoyingly loud commercials that get dumber and dumber with each passing year.

"Where's the beef!"

Really though I think most ads will be more or less system based if your in your ship flying around and the player should have the option of change the dial so to speak. I see someone jumping in-system, checking the local frequencies for w/e comm chatter (trade deals, general chatter, advertising ie Robs gas n go located on moon base Alpha, mil/pirate/etc) Most of the heavy advertising would be base-side, at least on the larger starports.

So, heres a breakdown (my thoughts):

Jump insys, turn the dial to check the local freq.
First thing you get is some local rambling on about some crop failure (if agri) or something else that WRONG
Next up some militia chatter to check out some point in the system for possible pirate activity
Next more random crap from different merchants bickering about how bad or good their last run was.
Maybe some local news station talking about a far off war or some local conflict (good for a smuggler)

It would be interesting to add system specific ads or just normal chatter you might find flying around and possibly also script it in to affect the system in some way or have some random event generator create something thats happening insys that can cause a certain audio file to be played (ie local conflict, pirate attacks, major conflicts)

Well, I got a little off topic but I think I may have just expanded the topic a little as well... maybe maybe not.
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Re: Brainstorming: commercial advertising

Post by chuck_starchaser »

@Turbo:Not sure why you call my vision of advertisers getting guilliotined "pessimistic beyond compare", everyone I've told my prophecy/theory to seemed to think I was too optimistic :D. No joking either. As for advertising allowing things to be free... Free, to me, means free. If you pay for something by subjecting yourself to advertising, then you ARE paying for it; --and a heavier price than you might think, I think.
But I'm not against advertising in principle. Listing your product with consumer oriented databases, so that when I'm looking for such a product I can find it, I see nothing wrong with that. What I hate is their pushing crap up my nose, filling my mailbox with newspaper sized ads, wasting all that cellulose and ink that goes to the garbage, and in spite of my having a sign on the mailbox discouraging junk mail. There's nothing free at a supermarket, yet many of them play advertisings over the speakers. Do they give me a choice to pay extra and not have to hear their brainwash about their apathetic house-brand?
Not to speak of TV commercials, where they hire sporty people and dancers and the healthiest human specimens to act as beer-drinkers, rather than the wretched bar-flies/vegetables they help create; exact opposite of the truth.
In any case, what I was trying to point out is that throughout history, futurologists have been wrong, always because of thinking that history is linear, so they project their present onto the future. If you had asked someone in the 12th Century what the world would be like in 1000 years, he'd have said there'd be gothic cathedrals the size of mountains. Similarly, we're totally fascinated with science and technology today, but this may no longer be true 300 years from now.
EDIT:
And note I don't imply a loss of technology; simply its passing out from the lime-light.
But I'm getting side-tracked into futurology 123, which I said wasn't my intent. My intent is to call attention to excessive similarities to our present century, and even decade. That's a complete failure to use human Creativity. Take any great game (or other art form) and you'll find music, backgrounds and settings that transport you (the player) to a different world, with a different feeling.
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Re: Brainstorming: commercial advertising

Post by Deus Siddis »

Turbo wrote: I hope that VS is not intended as a social critique. But I don't think we're recreating modern society exactly. Let's see what others think.
My feeling is the start up screen advertisements / political messages and muffled ads you hear echoing through the halls of commerce stations, probably helps add to the game's atmosphere. But I wouldn't want to see/hear more than that, especially not when actually flying through space (with the possible exception of on the outside of said commerce stations).

VS already does too many things that work against the sense of the "wilderness" of space, like vast and interdependent interstellar trade, near instant travel, a lack of vacant and mysterious worlds, space station urban sprawl and a current inability to directly exploit resources or develop colonies. More prevalent advertising would only add to this and take the game further away from what seems like its core theme and "feel".

As far as futurology, it can be said that advertising has had a long run in some form or another, but so did the thing advertising recently replaced, religion. Religion was invented thousands of years ago and has grown in importance relative to the other elements of culture fairly steadily, until it started to lose the place it had made for itself starting some time in the last two centuries or so. An older but greater example would be stone tools; we've used them for the vast majority of human existence and before, but not anymore. So realistically speaking, by the time of VS, advertising could be even more prevalent or it could be extinct.
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Re: Brainstorming: commercial advertising

Post by chuck_starchaser »

Deus Siddis wrote: As far as futurology, it can be said that advertising has had a long run in some form or another, but so did the thing advertising recently replaced, religion. Religion was invented thousands of years ago and has grown in importance relative to the other elements of culture fairly steadily, until it started to lose the place it had made for itself starting some time in the last two centuries or so. An older but greater example would be stone tools; we've used them for the vast majority of human existence and before, but not anymore. So realistically speaking, by the time of VS, advertising could be even more prevalent or it could be extinct.
My guess as to the future of humanity is that soon we will solve a number of particle mysteries, find the Higgs boson, and then complete String/Brane Theory, and so come to have a final, working model of everything, But NOT an understanding of everything.
At that point, the Age of Understanding will begin, with people striving not so much to explain as to really understand.
Meanwhile, future generations will inherit a dysfunctional, dying world; frustration with governments, authority and commercialism will skyrocket and put an end to politics of any flavor, and make power a risky possession; --a hot potato.
In any case, future generations will be contented about possessions, and introspective; like many farmers are today (but city people don't even suspect it).
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Re: Brainstorming: commercial advertising

Post by Turbo »

chuck_starchaser wrote: everyone I've told my prophecy/theory to seemed to think I was too optimistic :D. No joking either.
You have interesting friends. You'll pardon me if I keep my front sight-post pointed in their direction, because when the trouble starts my friends and I are among the people who will be tasked to stop the murders.
chuck_starchaser wrote:Meanwhile, future generations will inherit a dysfunctional, dying world; frustration with governments, authority and commercialism will skyrocket and put an end to politics of any flavor, and make power a risky possession; --a hot potato.
Some might argue this is already happening. I do wonder how commercialism will skyrocket without advertising doing the same, though.
chuck_starchaser wrote:And note I don't imply a loss of technology; simply its passing out from the lime-light.
It will be nice to reach a point when things work well enough to be taken for granted, like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pyjRj3UMRM
chuck_starchaser wrote:In any case, future generations will be contented about possessions, and introspective; like many farmers are today (but city people don't even suspect it).
I hope so. Growing up on a farm in the 1970s-80s, we didn't lock our doors until word got around that our dog was attack-trained, and one day our dog disappeared. The farmers I know care very much about their possessions, they just don't waste resources on luxuries.
deus siddis wrote:My feeling is the start up screen advertisements / political messages and muffled ads you hear echoing through the halls of commerce stations, probably helps add to the game's atmosphere. But I wouldn't want to see/hear more than that, especially not when actually flying through space
That's two who believe the annoyance we associate with advertising outweighs the need to tell the VS story. Keep the thoughts coming, folks.
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Re: Brainstorming: commercial advertising

Post by chuck_starchaser »

Turbo wrote:
chuck_starchaser wrote: everyone I've told my prophecy/theory to seemed to think I was too optimistic :D. No joking either.
You have interesting friends. You'll pardon me if I keep my front sight-post pointed in their direction, because when the trouble starts my friends and I are among the people who will be tasked to stop the murders.
If you feel strongly enough about it to become a martyr, you definitely should. I'm going to cheer for real change for a change, though.
chuck_starchaser wrote:Meanwhile, future generations will inherit a dysfunctional, dying world; frustration with governments, authority and commercialism will skyrocket and put an end to politics of any flavor, and make power a risky possession; --a hot potato.
Some might argue this is already happening.
Slowly for now; it will accelerate.
I do wonder how commercialism will skyrocket without advertising doing the same, though.
LOL I meant that people's frustration with it will skyrocket.
chuck_starchaser wrote:And note I don't imply a loss of technology; simply its passing out from the lime-light.
It will be nice to reach a point when things work well enough to be taken for granted, like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pyjRj3UMRM
Hahaha, good one.
chuck_starchaser wrote:In any case, future generations will be contented about possessions, and introspective; like many farmers are today (but city people don't even suspect it).
I hope so. Growing up on a farm in the 1970s-80s, we didn't lock our doors until word got around that our dog was attack-trained, and one day our dog disappeared. The farmers I know care very much about their possessions, they just don't waste resources on luxuries.
That's what I meant; not that literally they didn't care at all for possessions as in a religious way.
deus siddis wrote:My feeling is the start up screen advertisements / political messages and muffled ads you hear echoing through the halls of commerce stations, probably helps add to the game's atmosphere. But I wouldn't want to see/hear more than that, especially not when actually flying through space
That's two who believe the annoyance we associate with advertising outweighs the need to tell the VS story. Keep the thoughts coming, folks.
Why do you need adverts to tell a story? Just curious.
Wouldn't "classified ads"/Craig's List be even better for that? (I've been arguing for magazines/bulletins a la Elite for years....)
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Re: Brainstorming: commercial advertising

Post by Turbo »

The last 2 times ordered society collapsed in the US (L.A. riots and New Orleans flood), I don't think any advertisers were lynched. There are so many higher-priority hatreds to work thorough.

We don't need advertising to tell the story. But we don't need splash screens or GNN either, and someone thought they were worth the trouble.

The adverts writen so far are mostly fun things, but consistent with the VS universe,
and the sponsorship snippets which are recorded so far (except one) come from the existing splash screens.
http://vegastrike.sourceforge.net/media ... ommercials

I remember Elite, but never played it. I couldn't afford a computer until I joined the Army in 1987. And a lot of folks here are probably too young to remember Elite. So please explain how advertising fit into it. As for Craig's list, I'm not sure how to translate that to audio, and I'm not sure if you are suggesting that we do. I have heard a few "radio classified ads" on local stations, is that what you mean?
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Re: Brainstorming: commercial advertising

Post by chuck_starchaser »

Turbo wrote:The last 2 times ordered society collapsed in the US (L.A. riots and New Orleans flood), I don't think any advertisers were lynched. There are so many higher-priority hatreds to work thorough.
True. There may be no need for a blood-bath to end commercialism; it's dying on its own. At least here in Canada, television is dying. People are so sick of it. The companies that continue to pay for ads are usually the big companies that made themselves big through ads, and they have no way to know how effective they are because they never tried not having them. I suspect they are not effective at all. Tobacco producers were forced out of advertising a long time ago, and yet their sales are basically the same; a bit less simply because people have to go outside of buildings to smoke; so they smoke less.
We don't need advertising to tell the story. But we don't need splash screens or GNN either, and someone thought they were worth the trouble.

The adverts writen so far are mostly fun things, but consistent with the VS universe,
and the sponsorship snippets which are recorded so far (except one) come from the existing splash screens.
http://vegastrike.sourceforge.net/media ... ommercials

I remember Elite, but never played it. I couldn't afford a computer until I joined the Army in 1987. And a lot of folks here are probably too young to remember Elite.
I played it for a while; just trading between Sol and Barnard Star; couldn't figure out the fighting aspects; so I'd die trying to go to other places.
So please explain how advertising fit into it.
"Explain"? Not sure what you mean by "explain". There were signs on the walls in some places I think. There were also magazines you could buy or subscribe to; but I can't remember if there were ads in them. Why does Elite matter, anyways?
As for Craig's list, I'm not sure how to translate that to audio, and I'm not sure if you are suggesting that we do. I have heard a few "radio classified ads" on local stations, is that what you mean?
What I meant is the tone of the advertising. In Craig's list you get just facts. Well, people don't need to "advertise" in an emotional sense; they simply state what they want to sell, since the manufacturer already does the advertising. But what I meant is the tone. We are used to emotionally manipulative advertising; it's been the norm since I was a kid, back in the 60's; but it probably won't be the norm 10 years from now. People are getting sick of it. I should hope that in the third millenium advertisers will stick to the facts or go bankrupt or worse.
More generally, I was trying to say that a 3rd millenium society will be different from today's world in gazillions of ways; fundamentally different. And I have no crystal ball to tell how society will be; but I can tell you that it will be as different as today's world is from Middle Ages. And what I was trying to inject here is a bit of curiosity, wonder, imagination... It seems to me that most people assume that in 1000 years we'll be the same as we are today, but just flying space-ships instead of driving cars... !!!????!!!!!!!!
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Re: Brainstorming: commercial advertising

Post by Neskiairti »

well we can count on one thing to stay the same. Powerhungry people will find ways to manipulate and dominate the system :P
in this age its corporations, in the previous age it was aristocracy, before that it was religious institutions, intermixed of course.. and depending on your location. But all throughout history, that is the one trend that tends to stay the same, we just need to project forward to what trend will be common in the year 3000.

maybe look at a timeline and find a pattern to it? As you said, chuck, advertisement is going out of style, its still there, but more and more people are using things like adblock plus for firefox.. or popupblockers, and so forth. I dont even watch TV anymore, cant stand commercials, and i cant imagine that many people really do get controlled by ads anymore. may take a generation or two for companies to take note, however.
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Re: Brainstorming: commercial advertising

Post by chuck_starchaser »

Neskiairti wrote:well we can count on one thing to stay the same. Powerhungry people will find ways to manipulate and dominate the system :P
in this age its corporations, in the previous age it was aristocracy, before that it was religious institutions, intermixed of course.. and depending on your location. But all throughout history, that is the one trend that tends to stay the same, we just need to project forward to what trend will be common in the year 3000.
Well, this has been true of "western societies" (and eastern too) for a long while, admittedly. But you can also find societies, even today, that a) don't use money, b) where happiness is to be loved/respected by other members of your tribe; not necessarily to be able to order others around, c) "power" is a weird concept, if even graspable. What we've gone through, historically, could be a one-time accident, even if it has been playing itself out for 5000 years or more. Not sure if I'm making sense. Humans have been human for a million years or more. Some humans using tools have been dug up that date 4 million years. So 5 thousand years is not enough data to interpolate what is or isn't an inherently human trait. But to give rightful fuel to your argument, bloody wars in the americas long preceeded european arrival; but the societies involved in those wars shared some of the same precedents, such as writing, agriculture, commerce, classes, development of belief systems, and wiping out their environments by abusing the land; even while other societies in the same continent remained contented and true. However, the social obsession disease that has plagued many societies tends to win in the short term (1000 year time-spans) which makes the disease infectious. At least, this is how I tend to look at it. Humans are social animals; there's no arguing with that; but the present paradigm whereby we are born in a place that is contained in a large, colored area of a map, with some meaningless name, and some meaningless flag, and you're told "this is YOUR country, and YOUR flag, and you're willing to sacrifice your life to defend it, or you're NO GOOD", when you don't even know 0.001% of the people of this "country", this is going far beyond what being a "social animal" means, in anthropological terms. The same goes for belief systems, which I'm sure most people reading this are saying "I'm cool; I've rejected beliefs"... Well, think again: Most people may have rejecte the obvious tenets of religion, but continue to hold on to religious based ethics and morals and whatnot. Take the case of monogamy, and the institution of marriage. Science has repeatedly discovered and demonstrated that monogamy is almost non-existent in the animal kingdom, nor in early human societies. 90% of our spermatozoids are "fighter" sperms; which is part of genetic evolution through competition; and what do people think women scream for, during orgasm? Spaniards were shocked to discover that native women in this continent practiced polyandry. It's all as clear as clear can be; but the institutions of marriage and "the nuclear family" go on. We have a collective software bug that blinds us (violently) to ANY evidence that would contradict the beliefs of society. But this infectious bug is now about to kill its host, and hopefully die with it. If what we are facing now is not the end of the human race, it is at least the end of it as we know it. The economic collapse that began in 2008 will soon resume its second leg down. Currencies will collapse. There will be nuclear wars, climate change, food shortages, acceleration of ice melting, hydrogen sulfide eruptions from the seas devastating coastal areas, and it will keep getting worse, and in 500 years we may end up with an ice age, in addition to an almost throrough wipeout of aerobic sea life. I think humans WILL survive, because we ARE the smartest species; but not our knowledge and culture.
But I'm getting side-tracked... :D
maybe look at a timeline and find a pattern to it? As you said, chuck, advertisement is going out of style, its still there, but more and more people are using things like adblock plus for firefox.. or popupblockers, and so forth. I dont even watch TV anymore, cant stand commercials, and i cant imagine that many people really do get controlled by ads anymore. may take a generation or two for companies to take note, however.
Exactly.
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Re: Brainstorming: commercial advertising

Post by Neskiairti »

i cant think of a single society that escaped the power struggle. there were peaceful and great societies.. where they tended to treat power as responsibility instead of a goal.. but humans were still humans even there.

That is really the issue at heart, will humans still be humans a thousand years in the future? were changing at a faster and faster rate, through social singularity as well as our drastically changing and collapsing environment. Once we learn ways to 'fix' ourselves against diseases that plague us now, how much farther will we go? will we change ourselves further, taking a hand in our own genetic destiny? And what consequences?

anyway.. :P so far off topic..
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Re: Brainstorming: commercial advertising

Post by Turbo »

OK, let's try to get back on track. If Chuck continues to predict the future, someone will put him on a no-fly list. :?

Now I understand that your objection to advertising is the disingenuous and emotional nature of modern advertising. I too am tired of the, "create a problem and then solve it" advertising that has been a constant the last 20 or so years.

I asked about the game Elite because of this:
(I've been arguing for magazines/bulletins a la Elite for years....)
I agree we can't reliably predict the future of advertising, but maybe we can predict something plausible, and if it doesn't annoy the players that's a bonus. Take a look at this to get inspired -- the Andolian lifestyle is getting closer:
http://www.ted.com/talks/pattie_maes_de ... sense.html
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Re: Brainstorming: commercial advertising

Post by Deus Siddis »

Another element of advertising that could eventually disappear is the random unsolicited shit. So instead of getting hit with a string of random noise over a station-controlled radio or tv type channel, relevant advertising is all that shows up in certain situations.

Like you walk into a weapon depot and there are charts on the wall showing weapon stats for everything under a certain make. Or you walk into a bar or another recreational facility and you see ad posters for "Deuteria Red" and "Purist Old Style Ale", etc.
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Re: Brainstorming: commercial advertising

Post by Neskiairti »

if advertisement continues, it will be subdued I think... and factual. Catering to your needs and little else.
So any in game adverts should probably be personal. I recall a game a while back, I keep wanting to say front mission 3.. but i dont think so.

anyway, you got advertisements for new hardware, getting the advert unlocked new items to purchase. Make the adverts something the player wants, not just white noise.
A new type of weapon developed, it mails the player with the specs and where to buy it, as well as the price.
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Re: Brainstorming: commercial advertising

Post by Turbo »

Those ideas are feasible, believable, and a darn sight better than what the current era gives us. Today, web pages attempt to tailor the banner ads to the content of the page, but the algorithms aren't very good yet (consider what happened when someone in the Art forum posted a cockpit screen shot to a photo-sharing site -- the algorithms keyed on one particular word in the file name and offered prurient ads). I hope in the far future that the adverts would be better tuned to the audiences' interests and preferences. For example the deluge of ads we saw in the movie Minority Report was personalized to the audience's identity, but not necessarily his needs or wants.

So...what should VS be doing? Ads in-game addressed to our hero Deucalion, limited to stuff a privateer would need or want? Or just skip the in-cockpit audio ads entirely (perhaps because Deucalion doesn't want to hear them there) and only present print/display media station-side?
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Re: Brainstorming: commercial advertising

Post by chuck_starchaser »

As far as I am concerned, frankly, I only started up all this debate as a way to advocate trying to depict the future as being different, preferably VERY different from the present day. If that would involve a deluge of advertising much bigger than today, so be it. My primary concern is creativity, in general. A millennium is a long time. Possibly NO culture should resemble present day cultures. I look at this as freedom, rather than a chore. We got the freedom to play around with cultures, musics, art, traditions and values; so why limit ourselves to making a carbon copy of the present? This is a dream come true situation for artistic types, like a giagantic canvas bought with taxpayer money and given to us. So, let's go to town, I'd say. And the first step would be to brainstorm about the various races and their history and culture, and flesh out the work that JackS started but never finished. Namely, he never addressed culture much; mostly just history and economics. The question would be what does each race/nation/culture identify with? Probably whatever they consider themselves to be best at than anybody else. So, for each faction, what is that unique characteristic? Everything else should flow, partly from that, partly from history, partly from economics and politics. And this work would eventually help answer such trivial questions as "what should a klkk bar look like, compared to an andolian one?" Right now this game lacks character, and that's because nothing in it has been characterized.
And this lack of characterization results in artists taking the shortcut of carbon-copying the present, for lack of any guidelines; which is the worst choice.
So, I'd suggest that in music, as in advertising, as in architecture, the present should be a NO-NO; off limits. That way people will be forced to ask for guidelines, and then the guidelines will *have to* materialize.
Last edited by chuck_starchaser on Sat Apr 10, 2010 6:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Brainstorming: commercial advertising

Post by Deus Siddis »

Turbo wrote: Or just skip the in-cockpit audio ads entirely (perhaps because Deucalion doesn't want to hear them there) and only present print/display media station-side?
I would get rid of cockpit audio ads for the most part, and have "radio" ads playing subtly in the background in the rooms of stations, colonies and ships where it makes sense, like with the current implementation of the generic "commerce station" hallways. But it could be more clear in certain rooms, more echo-y and distorted in the main corridors and such.

Same thing with visual ads. The idea is to use them to build background atmosphere and a sense for the places you are visiting, rather than bombard the player with them directly, unless they are for things the player can actually buy and use in the game, and even then only rarely and with discretion.
So...what should VS be doing? Ads in-game addressed to our hero Deucalion, limited to stuff a privateer would need or want?
In addition to what I said above, I think it could depend more on which faction's place you are in at that time. Merchants might hit you with everything as far as ads, that's their style IMO, total capitalists.

By contrast, the Andolians, ISO, Luddites and all alien factions (at least those not under human control) would have none. Only messages of other types, like propaganda, gloating warlords/nobles/theocrats and strange alien culture stuff with no real life equivalents (things other factions would probably have too, just not exclusively.)

The factions in between might have a few not useful ads each tailored to the ways and culture of that faction, but at least as many if not much more so of player-useful ads like for ships and weapons, and still not that many ads altogether.

Ideas--
Forsaken = craig's list style ads.
Highborn = genealogy services, shaper artwork, medieval reenactment armories ads?
LIHW = political movement ads.
Mechanists = prosthetic accessories ads.
Purists = practical necessity stuffs ads?
Shapers = designer organisms ads for various purposes.
Unadorned = research foundation ads.
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Re: Brainstorming: commercial advertising

Post by Turbo »

Now that I understand Chuck's purpose and point, per his most recent post in this thread, I agree with him. It's a lot of work, but worth doing because it can make everything about the game better. Immersive "fun" play requires depth which VS currently lacks.

To that end, I suggest we start brainstorming threads (perhaps in the content forum) for each faction, to work out its history and what they consider valuable or praiseworthy about themselves (whether true or not) and therefore the interdependent character of the factions' religion, economy, language, math, politics, diplomacy, culture, military, etc. We start with what we know (wiki entries) and build from there.
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