Vegatrance, hope you like it.

For collaboration between the different artists creating music and sound for vegastrike.
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Re: Vegatrance, hope you like it.

Post by Psycodeine »

OK, I think I'll work for something like that. Desperate battle theme. Gotcha.
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Re: Vegatrance, hope you like it.

Post by Deus Siddis »

Be sure to listen to some of the game's existing battle themes for reference. The playlists are in:

Code: Select all

VegaStrike\Vegastrike-0.5.0\.vegastrike-0.5.0\playlists
Note that aerathemebattle, aymambo and sonofsandflearemix are the main aera battle themes. And the Rlaan don't really have any battle themes of their own, but that means making Rlaan battle themes would be especially difficult since there are no examples of these and the Rlaan are a very strange and exotic species in the first place.
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Re: Vegatrance, hope you like it.

Post by Psycodeine »

OK, I've heard these quite a few times, I notice how they are pretty alien, but somehow human as well. Rlaan will be hard to make a fast theme for them. Hmmm, I'll think about it.
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Re: Vegatrance, hope you like it.

Post by Deus Siddis »

Psycodeine wrote:OK, I've heard these quite a few times, I notice how they are pretty alien, but somehow human as well. Rlaan will be hard to make a fast theme for them. Hmmm, I'll think about it.
Their theme probably shouldn't sound "fast" to us, from what I gather. It would probably be fast compared to one of their peace themes, but slow versus even 'terranbattle', which is itself not a really fast song.

And yet still very powerful and "heavy".

Their warriors also fight largely to protect the workers, who (-se well being) they care about very deeply at an emotional level. So something deep, slightly desperate and slightly heroic might also make sense.

The most important aspect though, is that they are very alien.

Slow, Powerful, Heavy, Deep, Alien.


Also I found a tidbit lost in the wiki mess, which briefly describes some of Rlaan music style, might be helpful:
T: Consider their music as indicitave in some sense of their attitude towards construction: they like to take lots of simple themes and plaster, superimpose, and alternate among them
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Re: Vegatrance, hope you like it.

Post by MC707 »

Deus Siddis wrote: Their warriors also fight largely to protect the workers, who (-se well being) they care about very deeply at an emotional level. So something deep, slightly desperate and slightly heroic might also make sense.
Correct me if I am wrong, but aren't Rlaan purely logic? Or maybe they are both Logic and Emotional. Or maybe I am confusing emotion with artistic, which I am pretty sure they lack IIRC. Help me remember that, please. I am considering doing some Rlaan music considering the difficulty in terms of fitting my music into Rlaan theme. Of course, this after I get my stuff done.
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Re: Vegatrance, hope you like it.

Post by Deus Siddis »

MC707 wrote:Correct me if I am wrong, but aren't Rlaan purely logic? Or maybe they are both Logic and Emotional. Or maybe I am confusing emotion with artistic, which I am pretty sure they lack IIRC. Help me remember that, please. I am considering doing some Rlaan music considering the difficulty in terms of fitting my music into Rlaan theme. Of course, this after I get my stuff done.
First off, listen to the Rlaan peace themes- depressionchamber, snow, industrialmixed, dockingprocedures (it really feels like 'mission' should be such a theme as well). These examples should help you get a feel for Rlaan themes, I think.


Anyway, Rlaan do have feelings. They're not computers or simple organisms and they don't act purely on reflex or logic.

It is just that their thinking and feeling works differently than humans or other species and truly understanding them in some areas is very difficult or perhaps impossible.
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Re: Vegatrance, hope you like it.

Post by MC707 »

Right, thanks for the advice.

I get it, I just confused emotions, with the artistic and logic/mathematic side of the brain. IIRC, they are entirely mathematic logic, while maintaining 0 artistic side. This, however, while having 'emotions' (in a way, you said they protect their workers because of a certain 'attachment', which is AWESOME), like many living creatures.

Anyway thanks for clearing that up.
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Re: Vegatrance, hope you like it.

Post by Deus Siddis »

MC707 wrote:I get it, I just confused emotions, with the artistic and logic/mathematic side of the brain. IIRC, they are entirely mathematic logic, while maintaining 0 artistic side.
Actually, that probably isn't the case either- Rlaan aesthetics are just very different from ours, so much so that many humans probably wouldn't appreciate it.

The Aera are the ones who, I think, care the least about aesthetics as far as species go. They like simple, clean, functional, or at least that's my understanding.
This, however, while having 'emotions' (in a way, you said they protect their workers because of a certain 'attachment', which is AWESOME), like many living creatures.
I can't say for sure if it is "attachment" in particular. But the universe design doc makes it clear that seeing any of their worker species killed is extremely disturbing to them. That's how the Rlaan-Aera war was started.
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Re: Vegatrance, hope you like it.

Post by MC707 »

I shall read further then. Still, thanks for the info. I really seem to like the Rlaan, their differences and our difficulty in understanding them just confirms what I always thought about the possibility of how aliens would be aesthetically in real life. In real life they might be so different, we could perceive them as a dog perceives a human, etc.
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Re: Vegatrance, hope you like it.

Post by Turbo »

The Rlaan have 4 arms, eyes, and IIRC, brains. So their music is likely to have instruments in groups of 4, each of which might be simple but in combination will be complex and, perhaps to the human ear, discordant. Plus you have their voice without translator overlay, and a description in the wiki of how their voices are constructed. So I suggest you create parametrics for Rlaan instrument acoustic properties, go with some non-standard music keys, and play the alien instruments in groups of 4. If it is not possible to create instruments, go with exotic ones to increase the alien-ness.
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Re: Vegatrance, hope you like it.

Post by Deus Siddis »

Turbo wrote:The Rlaan have 4 arms, eyes, and IIRC, brains.
No they almost certainly have 1 brain, as the wiki says each of the four segments only has "portions of the central organs". A brain should be included in the category of central organs.
So their music is likely to have instruments in groups of 4, each of which might be simple but in combination will be complex and, perhaps to the human ear, discordant. Plus you have their voice without translator overlay, and a description in the wiki of how their voices are constructed. So I suggest you create parametrics for Rlaan instrument acoustic properties, go with some non-standard music keys, and play the alien instruments in groups of 4.
Interesting ideas.
If it is not possible to create instruments, go with exotic ones to increase the alien-ness.
I would go more with select synthetic instruments for the alien-ness factor. But don't make them sound too purely technological, they are strongly organic versus the other species. So you can also use classical and folk instruments, perhaps in untraditional and unique ways, so that they don't sound too familiar.
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Re: Vegatrance, hope you like it.

Post by Turbo »

Deus Siddis wrote:No they almost certainly have 1 brain, as the wiki says each of the four segments only has "portions of the central organs". A brain should be included in the category of central organs.
So...one brain divided among 4 ganglia? Or one brain that happens to be located in one particular segment? My point was that Rlaan seem to be capable of coordinating more simultaneous activity that the human brain is wired to coordinate.
Deus Siddis wrote:I would go more with select synthetic instruments for the alien-ness factor. But don't make them sound too purely technological, they are strongly organic versus the other species. So you can also use classical and folk instruments, perhaps in untraditional and unique ways, so that they don't sound too familiar.
Maybe I wasn't clear. I was suggesting that, to create alien music, the artist could adjust the parametrics of existing instruments, synthetic or otherwise, to create new ones. For example, take a rare exotic analog instrument -- say, the medieval instrument known as the hurdy-gurdy (info and sound samples at http://www.hurdygurdy.com/faq.htm) and adjust its harmonic characteristics to whatever extent the music software is able to adjust them, to increase its alien-ness even further.
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Re: Vegatrance, hope you like it.

Post by loki1950 »

I was also thinking of the Hudrygurdy and maybe using a different mode and also the various incarnations of the bag-pipes or an other drone instrument.And there is this thread.

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Re: Vegatrance, hope you like it.

Post by Deus Siddis »

Turbo wrote:So...one brain divided among 4 ganglia? Or one brain that happens to be located in one particular segment?
One brain in the middle that takes up space in all four segments. I don't know about ganglia, my guess is they don't have them.
My point was that Rlaan seem to be capable of coordinating more simultaneous activity that the human brain is wired to coordinate.
Yeah, they have twice as many limbs and are radially symmetrical, instead of being 'focused' in one direction. They do have one mind behind all of this though, they are just really good multi-taskers like you say.
Maybe I wasn't clear. I was suggesting that, to create alien music, the artist could adjust the parametrics of existing instruments, synthetic or otherwise, to create new ones. For example, take a rare exotic analog instrument -- say, the medieval instrument known as the hurdy-gurdy (info and sound samples at http://www.hurdygurdy.com/faq.htm) and adjust its harmonic characteristics to whatever extent the music software is able to adjust them, to increase its alien-ness even further.
That's a good idea. The hurdygurdy is also a good example, I especially like that weird insecty noise it makes at times, I can't see what the musician is doing to make that happen but would be a good sound to have a sample of.
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Re: Vegatrance, hope you like it.

Post by Turbo »

[quote="Deus Siddis]That's a good idea. The hurdygurdy is also a good example, I especially like that weird insecty noise it makes at times, I can't see what the musician is doing to make that happen but would be a good sound to have a sample of.[/quote]
I suppose it's the "buzzing bridge" that gives the hurdy-gurdy its insect-like noise. Mostly I picked it as an example because I've only heard one of them in my entire life, despite a decade as a reenactor, so my guess is that its sound will be completely new to most VS players.

And again, I'm assuming that modern music software can be programmed to simulate any known instrument and/or be given parameters for unknown ones. I certainly wouldn't ask the VS musicians to go out and buy a multi-thousand-dollar instrument just to make Rlaan (or other alien) music.
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Re: Vegatrance, hope you like it.

Post by Psycodeine »

Been on vacation so I haven't been able to get any wok done, but I promise I have a few ideas that I have been cycling around. Again for posterities sake, another remix of a song I did last week. If I take out the high lead, we have another battle theme. I'll post it soon. I couldn't find a decent sample of a tubular bell from the mike oldfield tracks. Would somebody happen to know when it plays by itself in the track so I can sample it?


Actually, just created a few weird leads I'm going to experiment with for Rlaan music. The in-game stuff we already had for them was pretty useful in determining mood. I'm thinking some kind of atmospheric maybe even possibly slow jazz elements. Though the Rlaan don't seem very creative and kinda slow, I think we could just hold things for a longer time in the song and use the '4 instruments' idea.

Jazz might actually be a bad idea. Since the rlaan seems slow, I think a good downtempo piece might do instead.
Last edited by Psycodeine on Mon Jul 27, 2009 10:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Vegatrance, hope you like it.

Post by Psycodeine »

OK, I modified my ATB remix to turn it into a generic battle theme. Enjoy this one, in .ogg under GPL.
UPDATE: LINKS NOW AVAILABLE.

Here's the one that's unmixed with the crappy 303 lead that I need a better MIDI score for (listen to this one second, and the one below first):
http://www.mediafire.com/file/kfzgdmmnm ... theme1.ogg

Here's the one without the lead so you could probably add something, or figure out what might work here (listen to this one first):
http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=0a48 ... f6e8ebb871

I think I am going to have to change the 303 melody because it doesn't reflect a battle very well, but everything else seems to.

There's still more mixing left to do on this, not quite up to par yet.

If anyone could supply me with a better melody (in MIDI format) for the acid lead, that would be very much appreciated.

My ears still aren't working properly. Went scuba diving (for the first time might I add) in the Atlantic to a wreck about 60 ft below the sea. When I came up, I bled through my nose and couldn't hear out of my right ear. It has been a week and I can hear on and off. So if my mixing sounds off, then its definitely because of that.

Oh, and please comment on instrument usage, I think the tubular bell gets used too much. Its sampled from the EMU Proteus X.
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Re: Vegatrance, hope you like it.

Post by Psycodeine »

I guess everybody's on vacation? Anyway, anybody who's not can take a listen in...
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Re: Vegatrance, hope you like it.

Post by CLoneWolf »

Psycodeine wrote:I guess everybody's on vacation? Anyway, anybody who's not can take a listen in...
You haven't checked your PM folder recently, have you? ;)
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Re: Vegatrance, hope you like it.

Post by Psycodeine »

Thanks for the hint, yes I just did. Tried the MIDI on the song, didn't really fit: might just leave the lead off and back it up with something else more ambient. Thanks anyway, it was a good melody.
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Re: Vegatrance, hope you like it.

Post by CLoneWolf »

Psycodeine wrote:Thanks for the hint, yes I just did. Tried the MIDI on the song, didn't really fit:
Hehe, I warned you that I'm not proficient at all in this genre :roll:
Psycodeine wrote:might just leave the lead off and back it up with something else more ambient.
Now that's an idea; while I was (poorly :mrgreen: ) trying to mentally mute your lead to see if my melody would fit, I realized that the music sounds good enough without the lead; something that plays here and there instead of a constant melody might be the right complement for an already strong base, IMHO
Psycodeine wrote:Thanks anyway, it was a good melody.
Really?? Thanks! Who knows, then, it might end up used in some other music...
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Re: Vegatrance, hope you like it.

Post by Psycodeine »

I should have posted a version without the lead for your disposal, actually I posted it just today. Maybe you could come up with something then. NAAAAHHH! Don't waste your time, I don't think its worth it. I'll figure out something out myself.
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Re: Vegatrance, hope you like it.

Post by CLoneWolf »

Psycodeine wrote:I should have posted a version without the lead for your disposal, actually I posted it just today.
Thank you, that'll help any other potential contributor!
Psycodeine wrote:Maybe you could come up with something then. NAAAAHHH! Don't waste your time, I don't think its worth it. I'll figure out something out myself.
Heh don't worry, even though what I came up with wasn't fit, I had fun trying so that's not a waste of time at all.
Besides, all this is expanding my fiddling with all the tools for a DAW; so far I've had the chance to play with Audacity, QTractor, Jokosher, Fluidsynth, Hydrogen, Zynaddsubfx and I recently learned I even have a sampler, Specimen!
With all of these things, I could really let a cat randomly walk over the keyboard and obtain something worth sharing :)
(...I know, I didn't even mention Ardour and LMMS, but my poor ol' rig can't even handle QTractor as MIDI master while recording, bless Seq24! )
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Re: Vegatrance, hope you like it.

Post by Psycodeine »

That too, my rigs about 4 years old. Trying to get some external stuff for it. Might take me about a year of saving to accomplish, or even possibly after the next 4 years of my life. Oh well, once I grow up in the world and actually get a decent job, I could actually indulge decently in this hobby for money making. For now though, I do it for free. That's why I've wanted to contribute. Besides, I'm in the IB program and I think this qualifies for CAS hours in the creativity section?
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Re: Vegatrance, hope you like it.

Post by Psycodeine »

Where the heck is MC707 anyway? Is he still on vacation?
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