Ingame tutorial

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klauss
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Post by klauss »

You know what is needed, but requires a lot of campaign-like coding (and some engine coding)?
Tutorials!

I would be willing to help, on the engine side, anyone willing to take the task of scripting tutorials.
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pheldens
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Post by pheldens »

ingame tutorials?

could be set up like trade missions maybe.
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Post by klauss »

pheldens wrote:ingame tutorials?

could be set up like trade missions maybe.
Exactly.
But with a lot of dialogue and forced timelines.
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sunergos
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tutorial

Post by sunergos »

I'm a little new at this, but I'd love to do it. It was something I'd planned on doing anyway, and now I wouldn't be on my own. Where do I start?
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Post by pheldens »

I think by creating a tutorial category on the base mission server
and then copy some trade missions in that category and lay them out in text, and then in code.

how? absolutely no idea :p
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Post by klauss »

Actually, the reason why I'm only going to help from the engine side is that I too don't know where to start.

But... dandandaman, JackS, Daniel probably and perhaps some others do know. I'd say: ask them. Either through the devel-list or posting somewhere (Contributor Internals & How Tos, for instance).
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Post by sunergos »

So you don't think it should launch directly into the tutorial when you start the game for the first time?
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Post by klauss »

sunergos wrote:So you don't think it should launch directly into the tutorial when you start the game for the first time?
I myself don't think it even should load your last savegame. I think there should be a "New / Load / Quit" starting screen.

But it's not that easy to code :(
But it's possible to code :)
Anyway, it hasn't been coded :(
But it will :)
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Post by sunergos »

I absolutely agree. this is something that I've always felt was amiss in vegastrike, and if it was done in a rather attractive manner, would really help with the first-time player experience. Ok, so one day (maybe soon?) it'll have that menu, and maybe then it should have a button just for the tutorial. But for now:

orientation

movement

targeting

weapons

navmap

edit:

on planets/bases
???
Last edited by sunergos on Mon Nov 13, 2006 5:32 am, edited 2 times in total.
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quick brainstorm:

Post by sunergos »

A)I think it would be nice if this worked into the overall game. keep with the continuity and whatnot. maybe set it up as "getting your license"? or a friend of a friend promised to show you the ropes so you could get started as an independent pilot?

2)instead of trying to read the dialog as it scrolls away at the top of the screen, can we do a dialoge box that will freeze game play untill you close it (so you don't go crashing into the atmosphere of a nearby planet and whatnot) I'll have to look how the ship's computer interface gets it's text.

*)???

X-1)profit.
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Post by klauss »

A fixer could be made available at any new game for a while (make it disappear after it's clear the user doesn't want a tutorial - let's leave the details out) that offers you, for a moderate fee (for continuity) piloting lessons. Maybe make the fixer really prominent while you're at the base, so that rookies don't miss it.

That would, actually, be fairly straightforward task (provided some form of "paused" messanging is available like you said - which isn't exactly true right now, but might in a little while since I'm working on a few tools that could make it possible).
In essence, it would be a new type of mission, just like cargo and bounty missions, but where there are no enemies (and all factions would be set to neutral for the time being).

Tours of stations would also be a cool way to get base-interface tutorials. There could be tutorial-like tours, and, later, if someone feels like it, there could be entertainment ones ;-) (I know there isn't artwork for that right now, but...)

And... who knows... the tours could hide secrets... (to make them worthwhile for seasoned players).

Just ideas of how to make tutorials worth having for non-rookies, you know.
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Post by sunergos »

sounds good, but I'd like to add in some really weak drones or something similar for targeting and basic combat. Something really simple and weak. the fixer would be the easiest implementation, but for someone who is new to this style of game, finding the fixer may be a challenge.
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Post by pheldens »

It can be in the onboard computer message at gamestart.
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Post by pheldens »

Basic orientation and flight can be done entirely without new engine code. (except a new mission category called tutorial)
This one requires 3 objects A / B / C that have a trigger when visited.

A = ~10 km away from SPAWN
B = ~500 km away from A
C = ~1 lightyear away from C

Tutorial:Flight

1) Hello pilot, press "n" (neutral target cycle) until target <object A> appears in your display, and allign it with your HUD crosshair by steering the ship's nose. Press "\" to go to full combat speed. ( - and + for manual adjustment )

A reached, trigger message 2

2) Ah, you made it to <objectA> !
Now target <object B>, with the n button remember? and align your crosshair with it, once aligned perfectly, press "\" and this time, also "y" to go in flightmode.

B reached, trigger message 3

3) Good, now press "y" to leave flightmode and target <object C>, as you see in your VDU distance to object meter, this one is really far away, so we'll use our SPEC drive to reach it by pressing "a", to keep things under control, better not used in flightmode (y).


C reached trigger 4

4) Well done, Mission completed.
You now learned the different flight modes

Combat (default),
short distances.
ship direction controll: FULL

Flight (y),
medium distances.
ship direction controll: LESS

SPEC (a),
long distances.
ship direction controll: inherited from selected mode. (flight or combat )








y to go to flight mode
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Post by klauss »

sunergos wrote:sounds good, but I'd like to add in some really weak drones or something similar for targeting and basic combat. Something really simple and weak. the fixer would be the easiest implementation, but for someone who is new to this style of game, finding the fixer may be a challenge.
That's certainly possible.
Just a new model and csv entry required.
Or perhaps pick up an already existing model and change the stats.

@pheldens: I like that outline. Just remember to mention that on flight mode you can accelerate a lot, and deceleration takes place. Therefore, a trigger at midway to B should tell you:

"Now press y again, to leave flight mode and start decelerating. At flight mode, you'll be able to reach very high velocities, but your ship has limited power and can't decelerate in an instant - you'll have to start decelerating midway to avoid overshooting your target. Always remember that.".

I really think that's implementable. If anyone cares to try, ask the knowledgeable guys I mentioned about details and, should a feature that would make your life/task easier (or possible), don't hesitate to come to me, I'll try to have it coded ASAP.
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Post by pheldens »

only problem is the VDU txt area size.
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Post by klauss »

You want to put the text on the objectives list?

Hm... I wouldn't.

So... I guess this is what you need:

a) send comm messages to the player (possible, see campaign code) for long instructions
b) set objectvies to a short description of previous instructions (again, see mission/campaign code)
c) initial paused-game popup with keybindings for accessing tutorial messages (ie: pgUp and pgDown will scroll the objectives and comm lists, so you can review instructions if you get lost). Not possible, but I can fix that.
d) triggers and stuff - ya, possible.
e) drones - possible, easy, add ad-hoc units.csv entries
f) autotarget destination - possible, see mission code (bounties, for instance, target your target when you arrive at the system it's in)
g) retrieve key bindings (for composing messages - you don't want to say "press n" when it has been remapped to something else). Not possible, but easily doable, I'll work on that.
h) anything I didn't think of ¿ :?: ?
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Post by dandandaman »

klauss wrote:But... dandandaman, JackS, Daniel probably and perhaps some others do know. I'd say: ask them.
Yes, ask away ... questions are always very welcome! :-)

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Re:

Post by pyramid »

Funny, I found this thread 2 years after the last post and half a year after having started my own Tutorial Quest Development. Maybe some of the ideas will still flow into the future tutorial extension. :)
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Re: Ingame tutorial

Post by Neskiairti »

ive been thinking about the tutorial aspect for a while..

two posts in the codinghorror blog got me to thinking about it..

A game should teach you how to use it naturally.. each step preparing you for the next step, and you cant cross the next step until you figure out how to. And the how to, shouldn't be difficult.

so some one who has done it a hundred times, could do it in 20 seconds without paying attention, but some one new to the game would spend maybe a few hours mastering it.

how exactly for vegastrike, I'm not sure...

ah and heres the blog entrys i was refering to
http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/001237.html
http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/001219.html
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Re: Ingame tutorial

Post by loki1950 »

Good find Neskiairti i think in our case it would be picking move intuitive bindings for all our functions but with all the functions/commands that are needed that would be a bit difficult but the most common commands should be obviuos.

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Re: Ingame tutorial

Post by Neskiairti »

the game controls should be carefully scrutinized.. if you need every single key on the keyboard, your using way too many controls..

much of it can be done through menus and submenus that are easily navigated.. as well as co-binding keys.. for instance.. if you have control over each individual axis with keys.. for normal movement you dont want to hit all of those keys.. instead you would have one key that hits all engines on one axis.. another that hits them on another axis plus maybe strafe... whatever.. to get the desired maneuvering.. or a key to dive in to the submenu.. to manipulate each engine separately plus/minus thrust on each vector and axis and then a 'start' button :P or even on the fly plus/minus

but my point is.. too many controls at the persons fingertips, confuses them, most people want to go forward, turn right, or turn left... they usually dont need much more than that.. atleast until they finally comprehend there is a Z axis :P

take a game like freelancer, simplest and most effective controls i've ever used.. plus they had 'compensators' that automatically leveled out momentum.. which you could turn off (and which i almost always did when dog fighting.. flying forward while rotating to fire on your target... then afterburning past them is the best dog fight mechanics :D) The controls weren't Newtonian physics, or Einsteinian physics.. but they were close, and quite enjoyable.

vegastrike is missing that enjoyable part of the controls :P
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Re: Ingame tutorial

Post by Phlogios »

I-War 2: The Edge Of Chaos had the best controls.
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