HAMMER aka TOAD - LIHW Heavy Fighter

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HAMMER aka TOAD - LIHW Heavy Fighter

Postby tiny paintings » Fri Jul 22, 2005 11:40 am

Didn't seem appropriate to post this in my other thread so I'm polluting the forum with another one :oops:

After scrapping a few designs yesterday I came up with this late at night and hade to model it right away - IMO it was worth the loss of sleep :)

Image

It's intended as a fighter/armed shuttle/something in the 30-60 m range. Its main feature is the rear mounted manned custom turret (see below! The "ring" which mounts the guns revolves around the turret body) and the "do not tailgate" bumpersticker that comes for free with the ship :D. It's also got turnable thrusters on the wings (they might still need some work) and plenty of interesting places to pack weaponary.

Image

Here's a few more pictures from a slightly older variant:
http://www.xpress.se/~jagi1216/vs/lfighter3.png (Multiple views)
http://www.xpress.se/~jagi1216/vs/lfighter2.png
http://www.xpress.se/~jagi1216/vs/lfighter1.png (Rear turret up-close)
Here's the model if anyone wants to have a look: http://www.xpress.se/~jagi1216/vs/fighter.wings

Comments, critics, suggestions, etc, please! If you don't like it, tell me!

EDIT: Changed the blobby cockpit region to something more appropriately sized - the change is reflected in both the picture above and the model file.
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Postby spiritplumber » Fri Jul 22, 2005 9:23 pm

It looks really good! We're looking for Kilrathi civilian ships for WCU and this would make for a very good armed merchantman (as in, the counterpart for the Galaxy) since the one I did is crap compared to this one.

I wonder what faction it would go well for VS...
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Postby Halleck » Sat Jul 23, 2005 12:49 am

Niiiice!

Yeah, wouldn't want to tailgate this guy!
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Postby hurleybird » Sat Jul 23, 2005 10:46 am

Oh nice! Get that bad boy textured :)
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Postby tiny paintings » Sat Jul 23, 2005 3:15 pm

spiritplumber wrote:It looks really good! We're looking for Kilrathi civilian ships for WCU and this would make for a very good armed merchantman (as in, the counterpart for the Galaxy) since the one I did is crap compared to this one.

I wonder what faction it would go well for VS...


Thanks! If jackS rejects this for VS, I'll be happy to donate this to your cause.

Personally I think this would make a nice new Hammer - IMO it looks similar to the Llama, which is also of LIHW manufacture, and it is a bit reminiscent of a sickle which IMO would be cool for the hammer... :) I'd even make a matching Sickle to accompany it.

@halleck:
You still didn't post any comments on that turret, damn you! :P
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Postby Halleck » Sat Jul 23, 2005 7:29 pm

Sorry, I never got it working in-game because i'm lazy. I might try mounting one on my planet-sized ridiculously colored capship though. Currently all it has is a lame-o pea shooter.

If I do i'll post screenshots. :D
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Postby tiny paintings » Mon Jul 25, 2005 2:39 pm

I did some preliminary texturing of the top-side (which I'll end up redoing, but what the heck...):
Image
Renovated and added some detail to the underside as well, not that it shows (in the picture)...

I wonder if they will ever fix that MySQL server... comments are slow when sourceforge is, it seems... :P
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Postby hurleybird » Mon Jul 25, 2005 5:09 pm

Awesome!

I think the ship might look good with a brown-ish color scheme; just a though.
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Postby Halleck » Mon Jul 25, 2005 8:36 pm

Wow. Why would you need to redo the texture on that? It looks great.
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Postby tiny paintings » Tue Jul 26, 2005 6:05 am

Halleck wrote:Wow. Why would you need to redo the texture on that? It looks great.


For a number of reasons:
* the UV-mapping wasn't properly done and needs to be redone (I must start learning blender, wings UV-mapper has a number of very frustrating issues. argh!!)
* geometry is likely to change as this is WIP (in fact, it already has...)
* the current texture is 1024x1024 - I thought just downscaling the texture would be okay, but not so. downscaling left visible seams between patches (if anyone knows how to remedy this texturing will be a whole lot easier).
* not a lot of thought was put into the texture, resulting in incosistensies and a less appealing look...


Anywho... I had a new idea and incorporated a rough draft of it in the model, IMO it completes the basic shape I had in mind for it. It looks a lot more deadly with the new pair of thrusters (which will, likely, replace the previous main thrusters).
Instead of spamming the thread with more pictures I uploaded the a new variant of the model:
http://www.xpress.se/~jagi1216/vs/lfighter_draft.wings
http://www.xpress.se/~jagi1216/vs/lfighter.jpg (sample texture)
http://www.xpress.se/~jagi1216/vs/lfighter_brownish.jpg (brownish texture (for hurleybird :)) - must be renamed lfighter.jpg)

Where's jackS? I need to know where to steer this, or if I should abandon it.
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Postby Halleck » Tue Jul 26, 2005 6:16 am

I cope with seams by overdrawing textures. I.E., allow room between your UV shapes, and draw textures past where they end.
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Postby tiny paintings » Tue Jul 26, 2005 6:25 am

Which would still cause trouble if you place details (likes outline-edges) at the edge of a patch. And I have done so :S

EDIT: Doh... How stupid am I? The proper remedy would of course be to tweak the UV-coordinates a tad.
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Postby Anax » Tue Jul 26, 2005 10:20 pm

just a comment:

If that thing out the front is a cockpit, then it wouldnt be much good as a fighter due to major lack of visibility. There are blinds spots not only behind, but also to the left and right below curtesy of those wing things.

And armed shuttle or troop/assault transport may be a better assignmnet. Also, have a think about what purpose those wings could be there for - maybe a clue in assignmnet there? :)
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Postby Anax » Tue Jul 26, 2005 10:20 pm

just a comment:

If that thing out the front is a cockpit, then it wouldnt be much good as a fighter due to major lack of visibility. There are blinds spots not only behind, but also to the left and right below curtesy of those wing things.

And armed shuttle or troop/assault transport may be a better assignmnet. Also, have a think about what purpose those wings could be there for - maybe a clue in assignmnet there? :)
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Postby jackS » Tue Jul 26, 2005 10:32 pm

tiny paintings wrote:
Where's jackS? I need to know where to steer this, or if I should abandon it.


Apologies - RL was busy the last several days.

I'm going to steer this .... to spiritplumber :)
Nothing in VS has come to mind yet, but Kilrathi-esque images have come to mind, so, if the two of you are not averse, I'm of the opinion that you should work together to figure out how best to continue the model.
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Postby spiritplumber » Wed Jul 27, 2005 12:57 am

I think it looks much better than my take on a WC1-style Kilrathi armored transport (their equivalent to the Orion perhaps)... just make the skin a bit more yellow :)
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Postby tiny paintings » Wed Jul 27, 2005 8:27 am

That's a pity... I had been looking forward to cruising around in one of these in VS. But hey, obliterating them in WCU doesn't sound so bad either! I really thought I had a VS-ish look going on in its last incarnation but I guess not :P
Image

I'm totally WC-impaired so I'll probably need some (read: a lot of) guidance with this, spirit. I'll PM you with my initial questions (they are MANY hehe) and we'll try to make something nice out of this!
I did some research, and can now clearly see why this evokes a kilrathi feeling to all of you, dralthi anyone? :)
I'm finally going back home tomorrow-ish - which means I actually try WCU out. Hopefully that'll will evoke some inspiration!
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Postby hurleybird » Thu Jul 28, 2005 6:13 pm

Humm, I would feel sad if this ship didnt make it into VS. right now, I think it looks like the perfect bounty hunter ship.

Besides, while it does evoke a kilrathi-like feeling, it does not pass as a kilrathi ship at all... too boxy, not curved enoug (IMO), and the skin is not kilrathi either.

Perhaps we could fit this version into VS, and a secound less boxy version with a yellow-ish skin could find its way into the WCU.
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Postby dandandaman » Thu Jul 28, 2005 11:59 pm

How about the Raven or even the Sickle, Jack?

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Postby smbarbour » Fri Jul 29, 2005 9:08 am

Even though the "Sickle" is just the common nickname for the ship, this ship actually DOES look like a sickle. It also has a distinct LIHW look to it (like a Llama). Since it was originally a LIHW fighter, this sounds about right.
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Postby tiny paintings » Fri Jul 29, 2005 3:30 pm

C'mon guys - sickle?! This ship is not an interceptor. No no no! In my mind it's a rather sturdy, large fighter (given that it has a turret and all...). I agree it has a certain Llama/LIHW look to it, though (especially with the belly wing).

Anyways, thanks for supporting my model :)
If you lot can talk jackS into including this in VS I'll be happy to fork development of it (major surgery would be required to ensure they don't look too alike), if that's okay with spirit that is.


@Anax: Regarding visibility... it's actually not as bad as you'd think. I tried putting the camera in the cockpit and the wings block out a smaller area than you would think (it's a lot better than, say, a WW2 fighter aeroplane). My answer to this is: cameras!
Obviously the wings are there mostly because of pure aestehic reasons, but there's also a large mount running almost the entire length of the wings.

@hurleybird:
Thanks for the suggestion. I'll try to make it more smooth looking (I'm already over my poly budget though, phew...).
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Postby spiritplumber » Fri Jul 29, 2005 4:11 pm

They're two different universes so what's the harm if they look alike? it's a really cool model. :)
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Postby jackS » Fri Jul 29, 2005 11:50 pm

well, if you're looking to persuade me, here's what would help ;-) -

Shorten (slightly) and straighten/thicken the frontal wings such that there's a straight-line path further back for the large mounts.
Widen the front cockpit region.
Thicken the wings by adding sufficient room for a 1-shot torp tube in each wing.
Increase the polygon budget (a little bit ;-)) - I think a little smoothing on some of the blockier edges could go a long way on this model.

Do that, and I think we could be on our way towards having a new Hammer. Add to the above any other minor changes that you'd see as fitting in a vessel that used to be called the Toad ;-).

We can discuss relevant texturings when the geometry has been recast.
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Postby tiny paintings » Mon Aug 01, 2005 10:15 am

Here's an update on the toad:
Image
A comparison showing the modifications to the general shape:
http://www.d.kth.se/~gimaker/vs/toad/toad2.png
Looks rahter toady, doesn't it?

CHANGELOG:
* Front wings made shorter, back wings and wing-mounted thrusters also shortend slightly to give it a more round, plump shape.
* Wings have been thickened considerably (kind of hard to see? but trust me on that one!)
* One big torpedo tube is now present in each wing (they should be capable of carrying massive missiles...).
* Cleaned up the turret a bit.
* Cockpit region widened, slightly (I'm envisioning it as 3 m wide, at least, measured on the outside). Making it much wider made me scream with horror, it did look like pure horror I swear... :P
* Manuvering thrusters were finally remodelled.
* Smoothed some regions a bit - don't know if you had any particular regions in mind, jackS?
* Added some greebles...
* ... and then some.

I also did some WIP schematics of what I have in mind for detail texturing:
http://www.d.kth.se/~gimaker/vs/toad/toad_schematics3.png
http://www.d.kth.se/~gimaker/vs/toad/toad_schematics4.png
(suggestions are welcome)

What do you think, jack?
If you like it I'd like to know how many weapon mounts (and their "kind") it should have. I'm assuming the 4 light guns + 4 medium missle mounts are up for revision.

I'm going to base the Kilrathi variant of the ship off the version without the top-wing mounted thrusters, if no one objects to that. Seemed more appropriate for them, IMO. I'll get back to you with pictures later.
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Postby jackS » Mon Aug 01, 2005 9:34 pm

add more/elongate the radiator fins further along the length of the guns
add missile clamps extending laterally from the underslung retrothrusters

for additional smoothing - the cockpit, eventually, unless the faceted look is intentional.

perhaps it's just me, but the side edges of the ship seem to have much sharper corners than the rest of it - however, it's difficult to see how much that matters until one looks at the effects of texuring.

Ditch the vent - you wouldn't really want one.

Two more light weapons are going to go in - I was thinking from the flat regions of the hull behind and to either side of the cockpit - but we should use vweaps for those.
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