Vulture

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klauss
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Post by klauss »

I'm partial against adding (geometry) detail to the nose, and to the extra hull in general - as it was designed to take massive damage. But I'll keep it in mind. I appreciate the suggestions!
Some places where you could add detail:

The trench
The rear bottom part

Plus, I would duplicate (differently, but still) the sensor tower in the other side. There's already a tower in the other side, and since sensors must be omnidirectional in a spaceship, you would need them in both sides (otherwise, big blind spots).

In general, I love the design. And it does convey the sense of sturdiness you were going for. A corvette role may be quite fitting, since you can turn a corvette into an assault gunship any time by modifying its payload (add torpedo launchers in the front/sides, whatever fits you, and you have one).

However, a corvette is supposed to be fast and agile (compared to its size), and I don't see this particular model being those things, given the large amount of armor it has. Perhaps a stripped down version (type 1?) could fill in the role of corvette. And it would be very fancy, with all its guts on the outside, given that you've only removed the second hull. You could keep parts of this second hull around sensitive areas, and that would add some visual complexity.

Besides, having this ship in two versions makes much sense for the forsaken: Originally, it was a seed ship (although a little small... hm... perhaps an escort of said seed ship?). Hence, the heavy armor: you would face lots of unknowns (hostile aliens aside, lots of debris around the destination star system, for instance) and you wouldn't want an impact to send centuries' worth of a mission down the toilet. Eventally, it got retrofitted into an assault gunship (given its armor, it fitted this role). When the forsaken needed a corvette, for escort, they stripped some of those ships armor and there you have a corvet. Makes a lot of sense to me. What do you think, JackS?
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Post by Anax »

klauss wrote: Besides, having this ship in two versions makes much sense for the forsaken: Originally, it was a seed ship (although a little small... hm... perhaps an escort of said seed ship?). Hence, the heavy armor: you would face lots of unknowns (hostile aliens aside, lots of debris around the destination star system, for instance) and you wouldn't want an impact to send centuries' worth of a mission down the toilet. Eventally, it got retrofitted into an assault gunship (given its armor, it fitted this role). When the forsaken needed a corvette, for escort, they stripped some of those ships armor and there you have a corvet. Makes a lot of sense to me. What do you think, JackS?
SO you're saying rather than making a a type1-type2 evolution, just make type2 a convertible? funky idea... you'd wanna plan that well ahead of time though - i wouldnt imagine you'd wanna make it so flimsily attached that you just press a button and the extra hull/batteries releases... or do you?
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Post by tiny paintings »

jackS wrote:I know you were thinking 300-600 meters, but would you be averse to something more like 225-275 meters?

I'm leaning heavily towards this being the Vulture (Forsaken Corvette). I'll try to write up my thoughts later this week.
That's fine with me. Klauss has a valid point though, it doesn't look very swift.
As long as it's big enough to carry a (hefty :)) bunch of turrets I'm happy. Turrets are nice, I like them :)
Speaking of turrets... they look crap atm. Interested in renovating them? I have done a few designs. (I see some issues here, but I'm going to post that in another thread, when I've had time to gather my thoughts...)

Things that I'd really like to see in your "written down thoughts":
* what to make of the front region (i.e. the little hole that it has there, which was origionally planned as a place for a landing bay), if you have any ideas. the region also makes a nice area for weapon mounts/turrets.
* color scheme - confed grey is so dull :)

EDIT: Shout if you want to have a look at the mesh and I'll tidy it up and send it.

@klauss:
Any specific detail you had in mind? I'd appreciate suggestions.
I'll try to add some pipes and small cisterns here and there, if I have polies to spare.

Ugh, turn my commanding bridge-tower into another sensory tower? I'm averse to the idea but I'll see what I can do. I have plans of making a rotating sensor array somewhere (on the turret).
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Post by klauss »

@klauss:
Any specific detail you had in mind? I'd appreciate suggestions.
I'll try to add some pipes and small cisterns here and there, if I have polies to spare.
That's fine, just some detail like that, giving the impression of internal structures. Also, probably most windows (if there will be any) would be there too.
Ugh, turn my commanding bridge-tower into another sensory tower? I'm averse to the idea but I'll see what I can do. I have plans of making a rotating sensor array somewhere (on the turret).
I had the impression that's what you intended. You don't need to make it as populated as the other side, just a couple of antennae (not necessarily rotating or parabolic), giving the impression of "sensory balance", that's all. Besides, most bridges do have the sensors on top in naval designs. I don't know why, I don't see any particular benefit, but they do (I think). Perhaps because it's the highest place (bridges are usually higher to allow better line of sight).
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Post by jackS »

klauss wrote: Besides, having this ship in two versions makes much sense for the forsaken: Originally, it was a seed ship (although a little small... hm... perhaps an escort of said seed ship?). Hence, the heavy armor: you would face lots of unknowns (hostile aliens aside, lots of debris around the destination star system, for instance) and you wouldn't want an impact to send centuries' worth of a mission down the toilet. Eventally, it got retrofitted into an assault gunship (given its armor, it fitted this role). When the forsaken needed a corvette, for escort, they stripped some of those ships armor and there you have a corvet. Makes a lot of sense to me. What do you think, JackS?
@klauss: Your conception of the Forsaken is a bit out of synch timeline-wise. FTL discovery in VS is ~600 years prior to game time (I'll abbreviate as 600 BGS). The big land grab by which the Forsaken became dispossessed took place 500-400 years BGS with late arrivals showing up primarily 500-300 BGS. Thus, while receiving the short end of the straw in several aspects of their existence (having their planets stolen out from under them, failure of nanite-based technologies, resultant cold-sleep damage, settling in what proved (admittedly unknown at the time) to be a sparser region of the jump network, lack of prepared landing sites, progressive waves of dispossessed immigrants, etc. ), they have had 300-400 years to play catch-up. What they have never acheived, due to a consistently depressed economy and disorganized governance (relative to the other human colonies), is the heavy space industrial base necessary to produce large, modern capital warships (one will note that the Forsaken do not produce remotely modern designs for anything (excluding the Catfish's use as a "shell carrier" in addition to its normal freight roles) larger than the Condor, which is merely a largish Frigate). Anything larger is either purchased (as from the Uln (who, despite being rather a large distance away from the bleeding edge of any technologies, have nonetheless had a very long time to develop their space infrastructures) or Shmrn (their economy and tech base having been propped up by the Andolian Protectorate (the only other human faction that the Shmrn tend to be willing to do business with), and augmented by favorable positioning along the Rlaan border)), or cobbled together from older craft. Both the Condor and Vulture, however, are produced in quantity.

Thoughts:

I actually find the basic ship body quite pleasing, although, as scribbled below, I believe the rear needs some additional bulk. Some additional engine mount points likewise do not seem unwarranted. The Vulture and Condor, both sub-capital vessels of the Forsaken, I envision as actually quite modern (if not actually competitive one for one with the high end craft of similar size and date of design from the Confederation, Rlaan, and Aera - especially in terms of durability). The Vulture is the Forsaken's homegrown replacement for the ancient Thales class corvettes (purchased and obtained by many groups in many flavors and revisions over it's exceptionally long post-deemed-obsolete-by-the-Andolians career) and, unsurprisingly, is a significantly better performing craft (the Thales, even with substantial retrofits, revisions, and modern upgrades is, at root, a more than century old design (it was originally considered a light cruiser) - it's the x86 instruction set of the VS starship set, so to speak). The Vulture is a capable craft, if in a very limited set of roles, and produced with military, rather than peacekeeping, use in mind. The Vulture will be a good example of a common theme in the Forsaken line of ships, featuring more lighter, cheaper, weapons rather than a smaller assortment of expensive/specialized weapons.

key -
Red: Fill this in somewhat - looks too anorexic otherwise
Yellow: Ummm apologies, this didn't turn out well - extensive anti-fighter missile lauch space. This was intended to be a bit more shapely, closer to the hull, and underslung, but I didn't feel up to drawing it until it looked right.
Blue: Engine-type-things here - I was pondering having 2 more side pods, and going for a tall, thin X configuration with the missile launchers centered between rather than underslung, but I just drew a simple enlargement - feel free to run with either.
Green: Some weapon placement suggestions (general vicinity and number- don't take as specific requests)
Orange: External docking port - having an internal landing bay on a ship this small is rather silly.

Image

Forsaken color scheme directions-
Burgundy and Ochre on Tan/light brown (on metallics)

4 spinal mounted light capship beam weapons (dead front)
2 rows of small anti-small-craft turrets
10 "heavy"(only relative to the above) anti-small craft-emplacements
assorted PD turrets (top/bottom towers on sides, two dead rear, two frontal, maybe more)
Lots of anti-small-craft missiles
Additional turret points possible (to be decided later)

Throw some sensors on the top tower too.

If it has windows, it's not the bridge, it's an observation deck. The bridge will be somewhere in a heavily armored portion.

This vessel is not designed to be remotely dangerous to capital vessels, but, deployed in small groups, it is well equipped to engage assault craft and their fighter escorts, take part in hit and run operations on support craft, or convince the local riff-raff to mosey elsewhere.
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Post by klauss »

jackS wrote:@klauss: Your conception of the Forsaken is a bit out of synch timeline-wise. FTL discovery in VS is ~600 years prior to game time (I'll abbreviate as 600 BGS)... etc...
Oops. Fair enough.
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Post by tiny paintings »

First of all, work on the Vulture has been halted (or delayed, if you so wish) for the moment being. The reason for this is twofold: a) I want to finish work on the toad first and b) I'm changing tools (to blender), and it's going to take some time and effort to get comfortable with it.
I spent over an hour UV-mapping the toad in Wings and it crashes when I try to unfold it! Ah, the agony! Thus, I'm trying out blender (at least for texturing & material work).

So, stay tuned, updates will come, in time! :)
jackS wrote: Yellow: Ummm apologies, this didn't turn out well - extensive anti-fighter missile lauch space. This was intended to be a bit more shapely, closer to the hull, and underslung, but I didn't feel up to drawing it until it looked right.
Blue: Engine-type-things here - I was pondering having 2 more side pods, and going for a tall, thin X configuration with the missile launchers centered between rather than underslung, but I just drew a simple enlargement - feel free to run with either.
Sorry for the delayed reply, my thoughts were occupied elsewhere.

Most things are clear,I just have a few quick questions/remarks:
* Regarding the "yellow part": This is only possible with missile launchers that doesn't launch their missiles along the axis of the ship, since the side engine pods are are obstructing the path (and also the extra hull in the front). So if there are no problems with this I'll either tilt them up or the side (or both).
* Blue: I didn't really understand what you had in mind with the "thin X configuration". Draw an explainatory picture if you like, or I'll extrapolate (or go with the first suggestion) :)
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Post by Shadowmane »

I wanted to weigh in on the idea of three types of ships. If your going to say this is an ISO ship, and that they modified it from some other type of ship, then the three generations of the type would fit quite well. The original ship might not be in production anymore, but you may find a type on, somewhat modified, somewhere if you look hard enough. As for the ISO, they would use the heavily modified Type III, and use it as a battleship.

Just my $.02 worth.
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Type 1, 2, and 3

Post by Accu-Accelerated »

I like the idea of having different "types" of ships, that have been modified in the game. I think all the types should be in the game, as opposed to having "all of them converted". The different types could be preferred by different factions/used for different purposes. Also, I think it would add realism to the game, because the ships right now are related somewhat in style, but we have yet to see ships that are modified versions of other ones.
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