Kahan (Andolian Torpedo Destroyer)

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Deus Siddis
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Post by Deus Siddis »

Shouldn't 1 blender or .obj unit equal 1 meter in VS? I can't see why it would be any more complicated than that.

Also, where can an artist look up the length (or length, width and height) and/or volume that a ship is supposed to take up? For instance I could use the sizes of the Purist strike craft- Consequence, Admonisher and Pacifier but haven't yet found a place that has this information.
jackS
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Post by jackS »

This Size Chart (outdated, rev 10376) that CoD made can still be fairly useful for gauging order of magnitude for strike craft and for capital vessels, though somewhat less so for things between destroyers and strike craft, and not very useful at all for precise desired lengths of any given craft. As for those craft between strike craft and destroyers, just to minimize any confusion from said chart: The object labeled "corvette" is not, and never really was a corvette (and isn't a VS model anymore). Corvettes should be smaller than the Thales, and generally as large or larger than a Mule, though some will be smaller. Frigates then, between the Thales and the Kahan, generally topping out at something less than 1 Km, with size highly variable depending upon the role they were designed for ( many of the "utility" warships, i.e. ECM/ECCM, communications, scout, picket, etc. fall in this range, and thus the "Frigate" range is a bit of a big bucket, comparatively).
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Post by chuck_starchaser »

Is the Kahan really classified as a "torpedo destroyer"?
Unless this refers to it's destroying torpedoes, such classification is a bit ironic, given that the term "destroyer" is a short for the older, longer term "torpedoe boat destroyer". The role of destroyers was from, from the start, to defend fleets. Lightly armored and fast, with small caliber weaponry, their role was always to move fast around a fleet and defend it from small but potentially dangerous attackers, such as torpedo boats. Destroyers were and are designed to take on little guys; NOT to go against larger vessels than themselves. A destroyer carrying a torpedo would be a contradiction. Maybe "attack frigate" or "light cruiser" would be more apt terms for a torpedo-carrying class.
In modern times, destroyers have SAM's, to provide defense against air attackers; but the philosophy and role haven't changed much since the beginning of the 20th century.
Destroyers are basically
  • Light (for their size), and lightly armored
  • Lightly armed
  • Fast (for their size)
  • Take on little guys (and stay well away from larger ships)
  • They don't operate alone (except against pirates (yes, in RL)), but as carrier fleet defense.
Here's a wiki page I've been working on trying to organize ship size classes and roles to try and improve a bit on the Wing Commander legacy: WC ship size classes.
A lot of it would be applicable to vegastrike; --just square all the sizes ;-)
jackS
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Post by jackS »

I think most people don't recall the full name of the destroyer because they don't remember the torpedo boats, or even the more recent PT boats.

"Role Summary: Destroyer, missile-ordinance emphasis "
is the the role summary on the wiki for the Kahan, and it is accurate.
It does not destroy torpedoes. It is a destroyer armed with torpedoes* (see VS definition of torpedo further down). It is a sub-capital in a primarily escort role, not a capital ship. It diverges somewhat from the standard destroyer role in that it will engage enemy escort screens, but only if no assault craft (its intended targets) remain present.
Its primary intended targets are corvettes (the Aerans being heavily given to using corvette class craft in assault roles) and other heavy assault craft attempting to engage whatever capital vessels or installations the Kahan is assigned to. It is also, unlike the Nietzsche class, heavily used in anti-piracy and anti-squatter roles, where it is frequently pitted against motley arrays of smaller vessels and the occasional minor fixed defense.

Just as a side-note, modern destroyers do carry torpedoes (an acquaintance of mine was an officer on an Arleigh-Burke) just not very many :). While modern day destroyers are becoming increasingly cruiser-like (in part because only four nations _have_ anything they classify as cruisers, last I checked), the destroyer role in VS is still that of capital escort. In VS parlance, anything from corvettes to destroyers are "sub-capitals" and we reserve capital for cruisers and above. Fighters, bombers and interceptors are strike craft. Bombers and other craft with ordinance destined to destroy large vessels with get termed "assault craft" - this is a role rather than a size classification, as anything from an F/A to a heavy-torpedo armed corvette could be an "assault craft".

I think some confusion may come because what VS terms "torpedo" isn't actually the primary capital-capital missile of choice. In VS, we have "missile" := has acceleration >> a strike craft, "torpedo" := has acceleration ~= a strike craft, and "capital-missile" := missile or torpedo with SPEC drive (Generally a torpedo. In either case, much, much larger than the previous two classes, on the order of the size of a small in-system fighter). Then, of course, there's "bombs" which refers to anything with negligible internal acceleration capabilities, and "rockets" which we use to describe small, single-burn dumbfires that are more aptly "rocket-propelled-projectiles" than missiles in the expected sense (and which are modeled in-game the same as bolt-weapons with large per-round ammo volume and negligible energy cost to launch).

Thus, in VS, the torpedo armament of the Kahan isn't the "carries at most 6-10" sort of torpedo, but instead means that the many dozens of missile weapons in its magazines are designed to counter heavier assault craft (in particular, those preferred by the Aerans), rather than more maneuverable strike craft. The Kahan is thus not particularly as effective against F/A models, or other assault craft more maneuverable than most bombers, and relies on other ships to assist it with said interdiction tasks.
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Post by chuck_starchaser »

Good answer, thanks! Yeah, my confusion was due to WC immersion, where a torpedo is what you typically use against a carrier or other large ship.
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Post by Fendorin »

"Role Summary: Destroyer, missile-ordinance emphasis "
For exemple in the french marine we haven't a "Destroyer" terminology this name boat is a typical english name
we called this class of boat "Contre-Torpilleur(fr)" means: Against-torpedo boat (this little speedy boat armed with torpedo)
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:USS_PT-105.jpg a good exemple of a "torpedo boat"(i think is the one the defunct kennedy president serve since WW2
but if you translate "Contre torpilleur" in english it will give you: against destroyer :yes is confusing terminology

the Kahan(destroyer class) was designed for destroy the ship designed for destroying cruiser/bigger ship ? stop me if i have wrong.

then it(Kahan) need to armed with various heavy armement because it look like than escort,
but not escort against fighter or bomber this role it leave to interceptor/fighter or maybe frigate "ALS" (Anti Light Spacecraft) with more turret PD and heat seeker ordinnance launching points or high velocity missile+ a Special multi lock radar pursuit?) in a armada for support a fighter screen?

but before that maybe we need to rework over the combat AI motor , but that unfortunetly i have no idea and unknowledge for begining this work!
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Post by Deus Siddis »

Fendorin wrote:the Kahan(destroyer class) was designed for destroy the ship designed for destroying cruiser/bigger ship ? stop me if i have wrong.

then it(Kahan) need to armed with various heavy armement because it look like than escort,
but not escort against fighter or bomber this role it leave to interceptor/fighter or maybe frigate "ALS" (Anti Light Spacecraft) with more turret PD and heat seeker ordinnance launching points or high velocity missile+ a Special multi lock radar pursuit?) in a armada for support a fighter screen?
This is what it says about the Kahan on the wiki:

Combat Behavior: Attempts to destroy incoming strike craft at range with missile ordinance. Will actively engage enemy capital escort screens, if present.

So it sounds like it prefers to take on bombers and corvettes, but probably frigates, destroyers and any foolish interceptors or fighters that get too close also.
but before that maybe we need to rework over the combat AI motor , but that unfortunetly i have no idea and unknowledge for begining this work!
From what I have heard, the AI code currently in VS is very poorly documented and understood by few if any, so serious effort will need to be focused on AI for it to be improved by those skilled in the ways of code.
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Post by chuck_starchaser »

So, in French they are still called "torpedo boat destroyers"... Interesting.
Fendorin
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Post by Fendorin »

is it possible to have a 2 or 3 target locked in the same time (i think about a new radar improvement)?
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Post by loki1950 »

is it possible to have a 2 or 3 target locked in the same time (i think about a new radar improvement)?
I do not think so although be nice to have.

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