Interception point marker

Development directions, tasks, and features being actively implemented or pursued by the development team.

Re: Interception point marker

Postby klauss » Mon Mar 25, 2013 4:30 pm

log0 wrote:
klauss wrote:If you want to create a new ticket, you can do so here by clicking on "create ticket". But you probably want to go here and just add another attachment.

Thanks, will do as soon as the "create ticket" button appears. http://imageshack.us/f/24/createticket.jpg/

Uu... weird... must be a permission issue. Fixing.
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Re: Interception point marker

Postby klauss » Mon Mar 25, 2013 4:35 pm

Ok, try now.
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Re: Interception point marker

Postby IansterGuy » Tue Mar 26, 2013 2:02 am

The new ticket system on source forge is buggy as hell right now. It's pretty likely this is the third bug I have seen. It does weird things like editing two milestones at once and not allowing new milestones in a new field and new field not even showing public buttons. I never liked the tracker in SourceForge, sooo much empty white space.

Also I would have tried log0's patch already but my Ubuntu OS has boot issues since the 12.04.2 upgrade. Additionally it seems I had messed up my SVN on windows "repository is already locked" time to -relocated it to the new repository location.
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Re: Interception point marker

Postby klauss » Tue Mar 26, 2013 6:16 am

IansterGuy wrote:The new ticket system on source forge is buggy as hell right now. It's pretty likely this is the third bug I have seen. It does weird things like editing two milestones at once and not allowing new milestones in a new field and new field not even showing public buttons. I never liked the tracker in SourceForge, sooo much empty white space.


Report those bugs with them, they'll be particularly receptive now that it's still "beta".
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Re: Interception point marker

Postby log0 » Tue Apr 02, 2013 3:33 am

The flight direction(velocity vector) marker has highlighted an interesting issue. In vegastrike the maneuvering happens relative to a local frame of reference, usually local star(which can be changed by pilot, home key?). So the marker should take this into account to be effective. This works great as long as the frame of reference is moving with constant velocity, but can be confusing when this velocity is changing. The marker would be moving around even if the pilot is not doing anything.

The question is how to deal with this? One possible solution might be to make the pilot explicitly aware of his current reference frame using a marker of some sorts, so that he is not irritated by current (relative) flight direction(velocity vector). Any ideas?
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Re: Interception point marker

Postby TBeholder » Tue Apr 02, 2013 10:41 am

I see it this way:
1) All we need to display it is to stick into GameCockpit::DrawTargetBox(const Radar::Sensor& sensor) parts that paint ITTS something like
Code: Select all
        if (show_collision_prediction) {
            collision_p_circle_r = target->rSize() + player->rSize();
            iLoc = target->PositionITTS( PlayerPosition, PlayerVelocity, 0, steady_itts ) - offs;
            collision_p_color = WillHit (Loc, iLoc, PlayerVelocity, collision_p_circle_r) ?
                collision_warning_color : collision_safe_color;
            if (draw_line_to_collision)
                DrawCollisionLine(Loc, iLoc, collision_p_color);
            DrawCollisionMark(scatter, p, q, Loc, iLoc, collision_p_color, collision_p_circle_r);
        }
Where the latter calls are slight variations of DrawITTSLine and DrawITTSMark and WillHit checks whether the vector points within the sphere of given radius or not. Or could use "AdjustMatrix" like for beams and missing autotrackers, though may as well write a special function already.
Correct?

2) Normally, collision prediction is used to... avoid one. :twisted:
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Re: Interception point marker

Postby klauss » Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:00 pm

TBeholder wrote:2) Normally, collision prediction is used to... avoid one. :twisted:


I don't think the point is to avoid/predict collisions (though it's a lofty goal), but just to make the pilot aware of the current frame of reference, so weird behavior can be better explained by quick inspection of the HUD (rather than trying to remember - or guess - which unit has last been set as frame of reference).
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Re: Interception point marker

Postby TBeholder » Wed Apr 03, 2013 9:07 am

"which unit has last been set as frame of reference" is best shown via explicit marker on that unit and note near velocities indicator.
But yeah, got to show "what moves where". Maybe, a fixed 5-10-20-second prediction line (along with ITTS stuff) would be more indicative?
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Re: Interception point marker

Postby log0 » Wed Apr 03, 2013 2:32 pm

@klauss proposed to display it on the radar (using a distinctive color(blue) maybe?). It can be made optional of course or only enabled together with the heading marker. This prediction line(flight vector) sounds interesting, just not sure if it wouldn't be too much info. My most recent idea has been to add a small coord axes cross(blue colored too) to the reference frame unit. Will play around with it a bit.

I am just wondering if there is a more elegant way to deal with this. Unfortunately I don't know of any real world hardware civil or military where one might look for inspiration on how to provide reference frame info to the pilot in most efficient way. The mil guys are usually quite good in such interface stuff.
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Re: Interception point marker

Postby klauss » Wed Apr 03, 2013 2:39 pm

log0 wrote:@klauss proposed to display it on the radar (using a distinctive color(blue) maybe?). It can be made optional of course or only enabled together with the heading marker. This prediction line(flight vector) sounds interesting, just not sure if it wouldn't be too much info. My most recent idea has been to add a small coord axes cross(blue colored too) to the reference frame unit. Will play around with it a bit.

I am just wondering if there is a more elegant way to deal with this. Unfortunately I don't know of any real world hardware civil or military where one might look for inspiration on how to provide reference frame info to the pilot in most efficient way. The mil guys are usually quite good in such interface stuff.


F-16 and F-22 simulators have a refueling mode in which the target (usually the tanker) is shown with both ground and self-relative speeds shown. So you'd know you're approaching the tanker at 3mph or something like that.

With that in mind, maybe the heading marker could be overlaid with a depiction of the reference frame's "absolute" velocity. Thing is... what is "absolute velocity" in this context?
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Re: Interception point marker

Postby loki1950 » Wed Apr 03, 2013 3:31 pm

The relative velocity is actually more useful as you want to know that for either shooting at it or intercepting it/avoiding.

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Re: Interception point marker

Postby log0 » Wed Apr 03, 2013 5:16 pm

loki1950 wrote:The relative velocity is actually more useful as you want to know that for either shooting at it or intercepting it/avoiding.

Enjoy the Choice :)

Nah, it is just me trying to use a velocity vector(flight direction marker) which you can find in mil aircraft huds. Its sole function is to show "true" flight direction during maneuvers, as it will usually deviate from the point the aircraft nose is pointing at. It is kinda weird to try to describe it, but it works quite well in action, you get a better feeling for your vessel.

The problem is just, that for aircraft there is clear absolute reference frame and in vegastrike there is none. This is the point where it kinda breaks. When you select some vessel as reference point, the velocity vector will display your relative velocity at any time. So depending on what the vessel is doing it will start to wander over the screen. In the worst case, when the vessel is moving/accelerating away from you, it will point in the backward direction(negative relative velocity from your pov). You won't see it at all.

But it should work just fine most of the time, as one will usually use stars, planets, space stations (objects with somewhat constant velocity) as RFs. The idea is just to tell the pilot what his RF is so that he understands what the marker is showing.
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Re: Interception point marker

Postby klauss » Wed Apr 03, 2013 5:22 pm

log0 wrote:In the worst case, when the vessel is moving/accelerating away from you, it will point in the backward direction(negative relative velocity from your pov). You won't see it at all.

Here's where closing speed indicators start to be useful I'm thinking.
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Re: Interception point marker

Postby log0 » Sat Apr 06, 2013 2:49 am

Have been thinking about the whole reference frame issue.

If we had true orbits, the natural frame of reference would be the orbital one: orbit tangent = forward, orbit normal = up (or orbit plane axis = up if one prefers it). This would even allow to implement pitch ladder and heading scale.

When approaching an other orbiting object (space station, vessel) you would match its orbit and frame of reference automagically.
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Re: Interception point marker

Postby klauss » Sat Apr 06, 2013 12:27 pm

log0 wrote:When approaching an other orbiting object (space station, vessel) you would match its orbit and frame of reference automagically.


There are many problems with automagic synchronization. Many have been discussed already.
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Re: Interception point marker

Postby log0 » Sat Apr 06, 2013 3:45 pm

klauss wrote:
log0 wrote:When approaching an other orbiting object (space station, vessel) you would match its orbit and frame of reference automagically.


There are many problems with automagic synchronization. Many have been discussed already.

This was not a proposal to go for orbits. I've just tried to see the issue from get a different pov. Consider it closed. I know you guys have other stuff that requires more attention.
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Re: Interception point marker

Postby klauss » Sun Apr 07, 2013 7:43 pm

Oh, I wouldn't mind solutions to that problem. But it's waaay off-topic when talking about the heading marker ;)

PS: The nearest gravitational object is already set as reference frame automagically
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Re: Interception point marker

Postby Shark » Mon Aug 26, 2013 12:11 pm

I would also like to see a in-HUD gravity contour map like this:

http://web.mit.edu/viz/EM/visualization ... age010.jpg

Assuming the information is useful. (While in SPEC for instance.)
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Re: Interception point marker

Postby IansterGuy » Mon Aug 26, 2013 3:59 pm

Shark wrote:I would also like to see a in-HUD gravity contour map like this:

http://web.mit.edu/viz/EM/visualization ... age010.jpg

Assuming the information is useful. (While in SPEC for instance.)
I imagine this post is partially a response to http://forums.vega-strike.org/viewtopic.php?p=132958#p132958 because I was visualizing two imaginary flux fields combining kinda like this into one as the rear ship drafts into the front ships SPEC field.

Imaginary lines of flux done as transparent 3d planes on the hud would make it simple to see how SPEC fields are effecting each other; though 'SPEC drafting' is a non existing feature.

I had also made a mockup of how this 'SPEC drafting' would work here on the "SPEC" thread
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