Buy a Paradigm??

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Buy a Paradigm??

Postby Magnusvermagnussen » Sun Aug 19, 2007 6:19 pm

Hello all.

Well, I came to the final mission in the original storyline, bled tears to make sure I had the requisite 1.8 mil credits to get myself into a paradigm, finished the last mission, and then ...

The shipyard had no Paradigms. It had the Paradigm as an option to purchase, but there just weren't any in stock.

I've tried New Constantinople, New Detroit, Perry (several times), Oxford and many refineries, agricultural planets, Speke (guild homeworld), pleasure planets ... there just ain't any out there!

I hope it isn't a one-off deal to get the Paradigm ONLY after the last mission in the regular storyline, because it wasn't available after that mission! After this mission, I can't find it even 'redded-out' (sold there, but nothing in stock) in a shipyard anywhere!

Please someone tell me I'm not SOL ... I've really wanted to get my hands on one of those puppies since the original came out back over a decade ago!
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Postby Dilloh » Mon Aug 20, 2007 3:21 am

The paradigm becomes available after your final speech with Terrell, shortly after you killed the drone. This is your only chance to get the paradigm.

If you saved and loaded inbetween, or mybe launched and docked again, it is gone.

To everybody looking out for new ships, the final speech of a fixer is always the time when you can get something.
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Postby Magnusvermagnussen » Mon Aug 20, 2007 1:03 pm

I saved before landing and then he gave his final speech ...

Would that have made a difference maybe? If so, then bugger me.

It must have been there the very first time I got the Terrell Speech, but this savegame was before his speech was given, although it was after the mission was completed ...

Damn.

Is there any opportunity to get it in the RF campaign?
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Postby Dilloh » Mon Aug 20, 2007 1:42 pm

I'm not sure, assumably there is no other chance to get one.

But if you're in for cheating, I can tell you how to get one for free.
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Postby Anscar » Mon Aug 20, 2007 4:32 pm

It's OK to save before the final speech, but if you reload that save (or any other) you lose the chance to buy the Paradigm. I don't know about leaving Perry and then returning, as Dilloh says, that probably buggers it up too.

I experimented a bit with this when getting the Drayman at Oxford. If you fail to buy the deprecated ship offered or if you reload a save, you have to reload from a save before you take the critical mission, then you can get another chance at it. In this case, you'd have to reload to a point before you took the mission to destroy the Drone....and then replay the battle. Might be easier just to use Dilloh's "five finger discount." :)

After I finished the Drone mission, I landed at Perry and at once checked for the Paradigm....not available. However, immediately after I had my meeting with the Admiral, it was available.
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Postby Dilloh » Mon Aug 20, 2007 11:47 pm

IIRC, I never saw one of the "deprecated" ships returning. However, we could implement those things into PU by either
- Make dep. ships reappear randomly or
- create/revisit a base where's a "ship discount", holding every ship unlocked.

What about that?
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Postby chuck_starchaser » Tue Aug 21, 2007 1:01 am

Or make ALL flyable ships available again once the main plot is finished. After all, all that players want is the experience of flying various ships, not necessarily actually use a paradigm during plot missions, I would think. Just my take. Like I don't think you could even catch Jones in a Paradigm. Well, I guess you could tractor him in and sell him as a slave...
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Postby Dilloh » Tue Aug 21, 2007 4:57 am

Indeed. It's nice to fly a Paradigm for the sake of fun, but try reaching a system three jumps away and you'll risk to fall asleep in the meantime.

Since I'm already on it, I guess I'll also create a subcampaign for the blank editions of the paradigm.
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Postby chuck_starchaser » Tue Aug 21, 2007 7:25 am

Which is a pity, because the role of a destroyer is to chase after bombers. The destroyer should be the fastest of capships, with very thin armor, lightweight, big engines, and lots of relatively small turrets. Their traditional naval role is to protect a fleet from fast torpedo boats. I'd almost say, if you want to deviate from canon and make destroyers be more like their naval counterpart, the departure would be defensible. In that case they'd have speed comparable to Broadswords, though much less armor; and maneuverability would be better but not as good as Broadsword of course. In RL, destroyers are big ships, but they can actually turn on a dime.
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Postby Dilloh » Tue Aug 21, 2007 8:41 am

if you want to deviate from canon and make destroyers be more like their naval counterpart
There is no need to deviate from canonity actually - a paradigm variant would fill the gap.
In that case they'd have speed comparable to Broadswords, though much less armor; and maneuverability would be better but not as good as Broadsword of course.
I've noticed that a Paradigm can easily take on two Kamekhs, which is the pity itself. A revisit would mean, as you said:
- weaker armor
- higher speed
- higher maneuverability
- higher turret range?
Not too sure about higher maneuverability, since its turrets cover all dimensions.
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Postby chuck_starchaser » Tue Aug 21, 2007 9:59 am

Ah, yes, I meant higher maneuverability in the sense of being able to chase after bombers who might switch directions to try and get around the destroyer, not in a sense of maneuvering to target things with forward guns. I wouldn't even put forward guns on it, if you intend to have a "true destroyer" variant. And you're right about Khameks: A destroyer's best defense against corvettes is the fact that it is faster, so it can get away.

This should be paired to AI: A true destroyer would chase after any enemy ships that are much smaller than itself and that are trying to approach the fleet it defends, with priority to chasing bombers; but would try to get away from corvettes or anything bigger than a corvette, --with the exception of other enemy destroyers, occasionally, as a last priority.

EDIT:
And, yes, most of its turrets would be medium laser turrets, for the range and bolt speed advantages, to keep bombers busy dodging bolts and prevent them from tareting *it*. And in terms of formations, true destroyers would bring up the rear of a fleet, rather than be the lead ships. The best lead ships to have are cruisers, followed by frigates; --i.e., tough ships that can stand a beating and buy time while the carriers are launching their squadrons.

EDIT2:
In terms of strategy AI, if there's any such thing, true destroyers would rarely operate alone; as they are designed for a specific fleet defense role. Cruisers, frigates and corvettes might operate alone, in "recon in force" roles.
There's also a class of ships often ignored: the "battlecruiser". Battlecruisers are ships the size of cruisers (larger than carriers), and as heavily armed as cruisers, or even better; but comparatively fast and lightly armored. Their motto was to outgun anything they couldn't outrun, and outrun anything they couldn't outgun. I think Kilrathi cruisers tend to be a bit more like battlecruisers than like true cruisers.
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