Questions about ships in extendet PR

Forum For Privateer Remake

Postby Dilloh » Fri Aug 17, 2007 11:22 am

Okay, no problem, I completely understand but I for one don't mind the challenge and prototypes generally should have something wrong with them. So maybe take a poll?
I want to do something wrong with it, but the damage thing cannot be implemented, so I'm thinking about making it slower.
Course we could always default back to it's a stolen Kilrathi cloak, since they pretty much had it first anyway in WCU.
That's what I wanted to prevent. Cloaked ships appear at the end of WC3 for the first time. No sooner. I'm sure the cats also have a prototype of a cloak in 2669, but certainly not near the Gemini sector.
Would still fit with only one ship being equipped with
I already have an explanation for that: The confeds generally want to keep the cloak away from civilian hands, while the engineer is trying to make big money. So they finally find an agreement, and the engineers sells his cloak research to the confederation exclusively. But as a reward, he gives the (unregistered) prototype to Burrows.
User avatar
Dilloh
Elite Hunter
Elite Hunter
 
Posts: 1149
Topics: 25
Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2006 8:56 am
Location: Black Forest, Germany

Share On:

Share on Facebook Facebook Share on Twitter Twitter Share on Digg Digg

Postby zeo1234 » Fri Aug 17, 2007 3:01 pm

Dilloh wrote:That's what I wanted to prevent. Cloaked ships appear at the end of WC3 for the first time. No sooner. I'm sure the cats also have a prototype of a cloak in 2669, but certainly not near the Gemini sector.


Uh, excuse me if I'm mistaken but wasn't the first one reported in 2656?

Though not believed, with the destruction of the TCS Tiger's Claw in the year 2656 of WC1.

And didn't the Strakha stealth fighter have stealth in WC2 and confirmed Stealth in 2667?


It's just only the Confeds that didn't have it till 2669, doesn't mean it couldn't have been on the black market IMO.

After all, there's the Steltek gun for example to show the Gemini Sector could have tech that did not show up anywhere else.
User avatar
zeo1234
Mercenary
Mercenary
 
Posts: 106
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 9:04 pm

Postby chuck_starchaser » Fri Aug 17, 2007 7:55 pm

Kilrathi Stealth technology being available in the black market is like talking about buying US stealth technology, or Patriot missiles, or SDI, in the black market. Makes no sense the kats would allow their most advance systems to escape their control. The confeds captured a strakha and moved its cloking system to a ship of their own, which Taggart flew to Hari in 2668. Other than that, there's only one guy in the Landreich who obtained a kat cloak, Banfeld, who had trading deals with backwater kat bases; and that's in 2670, after the Confeds already have cloaking technology. He was the founder of The Guild. From False Colors.
Anyways, my only preference, with regards to the current story, would be to avoid saying that stealth technology is a modification of shielding technology. I don't see anything it conflicts with, necessarily; I just think it would be a bit unwise to talk about technology and science any more than anybody else has. Leaving stealth technology as mysterious and unexplained as it's always been in WC is, to me, the best way to go about it. Anything else risks opening a Pandora's Box of questions, like "given that it is based on shield technology, and that shields are less effective in nebulas, shouldn't cloaks be less effective in nebulas, not more?". And that would be just for starters...
User avatar
chuck_starchaser
Elite
Elite
 
Posts: 8014
Topics: 195
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2003 9:03 pm
Location: Montreal

Postby Dilloh » Sat Aug 18, 2007 3:07 am

Anyways, my only preference, with regards to the current story, would be to avoid saying that stealth technology is a modification of shielding technology. I don't see anything it conflicts with, necessarily; I just think it would be a bit unwise to talk about technology and science any more than anybody else has. Leaving stealth technology as mysterious and unexplained as it's always been in WC is, to me, the best way to go about it.
So, the best way would be to have a cloaking device which can be plugged into the ship, and here we go? I'm asking this for I am going to revisit some of the stories next.
User avatar
Dilloh
Elite Hunter
Elite Hunter
 
Posts: 1149
Topics: 25
Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2006 8:56 am
Location: Black Forest, Germany

Postby chuck_starchaser » Sat Aug 18, 2007 7:22 am

The best would be to have a cloaking device that's built into the ship, as it was in the Strakha, and later in the Excalibur. I can't find a quote right now, but a cloaking device is such a big gadget that a way was not found in time for the Excalibur to make it a plug-in device, and they decided to design the ship itself around the cloaking device. I'll keep looking for the paragraphs to quote; stay turned...
User avatar
chuck_starchaser
Elite
Elite
 
Posts: 8014
Topics: 195
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2003 9:03 pm
Location: Montreal

Postby chuck_starchaser » Sat Aug 18, 2007 11:03 am

Here we go:

Fleet Action, William R. Forstchen, page 131:

2668, Landreich:

.................
"A light smuggler craft with Stealth technology," Paladin said with a grin.
"How the hell did we get that?" Kevin [Tolwyn] asked excitedly.
"Oh, let's just say a Kilrathi Stealth fighter they thought was killed somehow wound up in our hands," [Vance] Richards replied. "We've yet to really figure out how it works, but we did manage to take it apart and install it in one of our ships and the damn thing actually works!"
.................

Heart of the Tiger, William R. Forstchen and Andrew Keith

2669, Orsini, page 55:

"One of the new Excaliburs," [Rachel Coriolis] said, her voice tinged with excitement. "Isn't she a beauty? Heavy fighter with more guns and armor than a Thunderbolt, but increased maneuverability to go with it. And I've heard a rumor they're going to be mounted with a sensor cloak, so the little darlings can sneak right past a Kilrathi defensive perimeter and nail the hairballs at close range!"
"Don't they classify that stuff any more?" Blair asked with a smile.
She gave an unladylike snort. "Get real, skipper. Maybe you flyboys don't hear anything 'til it gets declassified, but the techs have a network that reaches damn near everywhere. We know what's coming off the line before the brass does... and usually have all the design flaws spotted up front, too."

2669, Locanda page 149:

Strakha fighters.
They were comparatively rare in the Kilrathi arsenal as yet, an advanced-technology space fighter on the cutting edge of Kilrathi science. Intelligence had nicknamed them "Stealth Cats" before they'd ever actually been encountered in combat, and they lived up to the name. They were designed for sneakig, pure and simple, with sensor-distorting materials incorporated into the hull and a shape that tended to confuse most scanning systems. Worst of all, though, they mounted a cloaking device that could actually obscure the craft from any detection whatsoever, at least for short periods of time. But unlike the Skipper missiles, they could stay hidden, without having to drop the cloak to make navigation checks.
The new Excaliburs Rachel Coriolis had been drooling over a few weeks back had been designed to incorporate a Terran knock-off of a captured Kilrathi cloak, but the Excaliburs weren't in production yet. Strakha were. And they were here, in the Locanda system, right now.

Mid-september 2669, Blackmane System, page 319:

"An Excalibur?" [Blair] said, raising his eyebrows.
"Aye. Eagle carries a squadron of them, the first operational squadron. They have a limited jump capability, and a cloaking device --which means they can penetrate the Kilrah System in secret, carry out the mission, and hopefully get clear again when it's over." Taggart raised his hand to ward off the protests that sprang to Blair's lips. "Hear me out, laddie. You'll be wanting to say yon fighter doesna have the range tae make a jump and proceed all the way in to Kilrah. That's true enough. But Angel's mission was to survey a jump point that we didna previously know about and tae make some stops along the way in to Kilrah."



Sorry, haven't found any of the quotes I was looking for yet; still looking...
User avatar
chuck_starchaser
Elite
Elite
 
Posts: 8014
Topics: 195
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2003 9:03 pm
Location: Montreal

Postby Dilloh » Sun Aug 19, 2007 6:35 am

That's just fine for me, the FB was a ship meant to be designed around a cloak... I didn't (yet) intend to give it as a plug-in.
User avatar
Dilloh
Elite Hunter
Elite Hunter
 
Posts: 1149
Topics: 25
Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2006 8:56 am
Location: Black Forest, Germany

Postby Dilloh » Sun Aug 19, 2007 6:35 am

That's just fine for me, the FB was a ship meant to be designed around a cloak... I didn't (yet) intend to give it as a plug-in.
User avatar
Dilloh
Elite Hunter
Elite Hunter
 
Posts: 1149
Topics: 25
Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2006 8:56 am
Location: Black Forest, Germany

Postby zeo1234 » Sun Aug 19, 2007 8:48 am

chuck_starchaser wrote:Kilrathi Stealth technology being available in the black market is like talking about buying US stealth technology, or Patriot missiles, or SDI, in the black market. Makes no sense the kats would allow their most advance systems to escape their control.


Well, not to start argument, as I think Dilloh should pretty much follow your advise, but who said anything about allow?

The black market takes advantage of any and all security holes and there is no such thing as 100% security. At least not in our society.

Here's one example, http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/co ... 038041.htm

Those F-14's were acquired while the fighter was still in active service.

Never mind nuclear technology keeps getting leaked.

Or how the manufactures themselves may pose problems in security. Like this example, http://www.defensetech.org/archives/003634.html

Hell the US is the biggest seller of technology and weapons in the world. We practically armed the Iraq and Afghanistan terrorists ourselves.


But the Kilrathi aren't human and at least one so called traitor turned out to be a double agent. So you could be right about them. Not to mention it would be a lot harder to be covert with an alien species than it is with your own.

However Privateer does suggest a black market does exist with them with both the sale of Salthi's and buying of catnip. So I wouldn't say it was out of the question. At least not for the older tech such as the skipper missile.

But you're right that we should keep it simple, just wanted to clarify how possible it was.



chuck_starchaser wrote:Anything else risks opening a Pandora's Box of questions, like "given that it is based on shield technology, and that shields are less effective in nebulas, shouldn't cloaks be less effective in nebulas, not more?". And that would be just for starters...


Actually we could just explain that by the fact the cloak doesn't interact physically with anything except sensors and light. The shields on the other hand would come into direct comflict with the gasses in the nebula.

It's like high frequency electricity, your nervous system isn't effected because the electricity is operating at a frequency that doesn't interfere with the frequency of your nervous system. So passes harmlessly through you.

All the cloak has to do is operate in a way that doesn't interact with the nebula to continue working and then the nebula's natural tendency to interfere with sensors would make the cloak more effective.

So I don't see that as a big problem explaining.


But like you said let's keep it simple and avoid having to answer such things as then we would have to explain exactly how it works and how it could avoid interacting with the nebula while the shields would and since that information was never officially given it would all just be conjecture.

Most people wouldn't want to think about it anyway.


Btw, just curious but are we sure about the Privateer timeline?

This, http://www.wcnews.com/encyclopedia/show ... php?id=216

States the game starts in 2669 and the RF starts in 2670?

I know it's just a one year difference but if true then the confeds already had Stealth tech. :shock:

Unless Dilloh is setting this for pre-Privateer time period or at least before RF?

Or is that site wrong on the timeline?
User avatar
zeo1234
Mercenary
Mercenary
 
Posts: 106
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 9:04 pm

Postby chuck_starchaser » Sun Aug 19, 2007 10:34 am

zeo1234 wrote:Btw, just curious but are we sure about the Privateer timeline?

This, http://www.wcnews.com/encyclopedia/show ... php?id=216

States the game starts in 2669 and the RF starts in 2670?

I know it's just a one year difference but if true then the confeds already had Stealth tech. :shock:

Unless Dilloh is setting this for pre-Privateer time period or at least before RF?

Or is that site wrong on the timeline?

I dispute wcnews's position on the timeline of RF. Simple mathematics: A horde of facts against just one. The one is the fact that when RF begins, there's a title saying "A Year Later...", which would indeed place us in 2670, after the war.
The horde of facts that contradict it are all the references in RF to the war raging on: Bar rumors saying that "we're losing the war", "the confies are taking over production at this base", "I'm packing my bags and moving out of gemini", paraphrasing; plus carrier losses; plus a 7th Fleet incursion that couldn't possibly be discounted as "a warlord raiding party"; plus the complete lack of ANY references whatsoever, in RF, to the war having ended.
So I consider the "A year later" opening screen as a "canon error", which is much easier to explain as a "typo", or momentary lapse or inattention.
More on my 2669 timeline here:
http://www.deeplayer.com/doku/doku.php/ ... s_combined
Notice the links about timing of WC3 and the Winterrowd trip. Both are in perfect agreement and yield a simple formula for timing games based on number of systems crossed, cruising speed, and allowing extra time for missions flown within each system. If we apply that formula to Privateer and RF, it all fits perfectly within 2669, even allowing for 3 months of trading and ship upgrading at the start, and ending about 2 months before the Temblor Bomb is dropped.
User avatar
chuck_starchaser
Elite
Elite
 
Posts: 8014
Topics: 195
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2003 9:03 pm
Location: Montreal

Postby zeo1234 » Sun Aug 19, 2007 11:29 am

Okay, just wanted to make sure.

Btw, good job on accumulating all that info, makes it much more clear 8) :wink:
User avatar
zeo1234
Mercenary
Mercenary
 
Posts: 106
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 9:04 pm

Postby chuck_starchaser » Sun Aug 19, 2007 1:30 pm

Thanks. Yeah, that was a ton of work, but I have a number of errors I made, as I had not yet read all the WC series books when I did that analysis. I intend to correct those errors pretty soon; working on a new wiki...
User avatar
chuck_starchaser
Elite
Elite
 
Posts: 8014
Topics: 195
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2003 9:03 pm
Location: Montreal


Previous

Return to Privateer Remake

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests

cron