Having a separate forum for "Privateer Remake MODs"

Forum For Privateer Remake
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Create a separate forum for PR MODs / PU?

Poll ended at Fri Mar 30, 2007 7:49 pm

Yes, but just for those who want to "join" PU
4
25%
Yes, but just for those who want to "join" PU
4
25%
Yes, for all kind of PR MODs, even for "stand-alones"
1
6%
Yes, for all kind of PR MODs, even for "stand-alones"
1
6%
No, I don't want to browse through two forums
3
19%
No, I don't want to browse through two forums
3
19%
No, we won't have enough content to "fill up" a forum
0
No votes
No, we won't have enough content to "fill up" a forum
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 16

Dilloh
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Having a separate forum for "Privateer Remake MODs"

Post by Dilloh »

Hello all,

Just thought again of having this forum... who would want to have this baby, who not? My thoughts were to strictly restrict its contents to modding, questions concerning modding, and contributors who want to have their content as part of PU. Advantage: Some of us could work as moderators, open up sticky threads (e.g. for download sources) and delete or move posts which are not in the right place.

The poll runs 30 days. I hope z30 will be back until than and can say something concerning this, too. I'd also appreciate comments from those who have contributed lately, especially Gosshawk, Melonhead, javier, dhague@cfo, Sligor, Draken Stark, Zool and others I forgot for we would benefit from this forum mostly. Of course, also comments from "new" modders and players are welcome.

We could still announce new download releases in the PR forum.

ADMINS please also reply what you think / what is possible. I'd especially like to know if it is possible to have a sub-forum within the PR forum.
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Post by Draken Stark »

I honestly think that a PU forum may be a good idea... but in a since it's currently the only thing being worked on as it seems... creating that would, I think, kill this one.

I think a forum purely for storing mods on the other hand is a bit bad. How much searching that would be invovled for a single mod may get to be as bad as looking for a single gameboy game in a mile long swap-meet. I really like the website idea that was up and about a while ago. It would be much easier to categorize and sort.

But all in all, a second forum wouldn't be a bad thing. If anything PU has truely become it's own game and deserves to be on it's own finally.
*waves around some baby pictures* It's come a long ways...
Last edited by Draken Stark on Wed Feb 28, 2007 9:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by zeo1234 »

Yeah, the website idea would be much better.
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Post by Zool »

Hi All :), The sub forum is a good idea, even if only to separated PR and PU a little without moving PU away. The problem I have is finding things in the forum. The files people have posted are all over the place. They need to be brought together under one or two topics or stickys. It's getting bigger and more confusing, especially when, and I mean no offence to anyone here, people keep asking the same questions or types of questions over and over. Perhaps we need a new "sticky" or two to answer more common questions with a heading directing all new members/readers to read this first. For example, questions on centurions shields are becoming more common and each time there is a new topic to read and answer. I think it would be good to have a sticky FAQ to answer these simple issues, but I digress.

The website idea also has merit, as mentioned it would make organising and finding files easier especially if a section listing of each file with a detailled description were added. One question though, would it become the new forum also or just a site where the actual files could be downloaded from? Draken Stark is right in saying that a new forum probably would kill this one as it has been the new ideas and development of all the talented contributors and thinkers that have allowed PU to become and grow from PR and ultimately keep this forum alive.

Ultimately I say this, we need a dedicated PU modding section and a single organised location to upload and download mods from.
(haha , all that and no definite answer, let's get some more feedback to form a consensus.)
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Post by Dilloh »

I agree that the forum should stay in here, no matter where the files are located. I'd also want a subforum, with a sticky/announcement offering either all file links or the link to a common download page.

I'd NOT favour a forum moved to another page, at least not one for endusers. And even for me, it'd make me tired waving through multiple URLs.

Let's wait till the poll is over and then ask the admins.
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Post by Draken Stark »

Zool wrote:Hi All :), The sub forum is a good idea, even if only to separated PR and PU a little without moving PU away. The problem I have is finding things in the forum. The files people have posted are all over the place...

The website idea also has merit, as mentioned it would make organizing and finding files easier especially if a section listing of each file with a detailed description were added. One question though, would it become the new forum also or just a site where the actual files could be downloaded from? Draken Stark is right in saying that a new forum probably would kill this one as it has been the new ideas and development of all the talented contributors and thinkers that have allowed PU to become and grow from PR and ultimately keep this forum alive.

Ultimately I say this, we need a dedicated PU modding section and a single organized location to upload and download mods from.
(haha , all that and no definite answer, let's get some more feedback to form a consensus.)
I think changing or modding the forum would just end up being confusing. Yes we need to reorganize, but not everything I see. The website itself I'm hoping could host the files needed via links to the files right in the forum posts. This just means that the site will need some strong maintenance. Perhaps a schedule would be in order on when it gets updated with mods (Like every Saturday or something.). Of course this can be a very bad thing... The more the site needs maintenance the faster the site's going to also be out of date. That's the only problem I see. It will however make it vastly easier to find all the files needed to play asap and PU with the rest of the mods. Even if the site does go out of date due to a minor mod or a patch, it will still be very useful. So that's what I'm going to be working on.

Thanks to Dilloh, he and I have come to an agreement. I will be giving him the pages for the site as he'll be hosting it make any changes he wants or needs.

Here's already what we have planned to put on the new website, but if there's anything anyone may think we missed please comment.
  • Stats FAQ/Database (Cargo prices on planets, ship specs, ect.)

    Walkthrough (For all campaigns)

    Download page with links to files in this forum. (Directly if possible)

    Tutorial page on creating or modding the game.

    Job list (For what jobs need to be worked on the PR)

    Basic contact info. (Personally I think all we need is a link to the forum.)
I would also like to say that I personally will not be creating all the content for the entire site. One way or another we'll need people to contribute to the site for it's content. All we have now are just pages and plans for what the site can have (i.e. Placeholders). Any and all help with info on the game would be greatly appreciated.

EDIT: Later when I have time I'll try to create a new Topic with a list of what the site will need help on. (We're getting a site up! Can I hear a w00t!? lol :wink: )
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Post by Dilloh »

Okay guys, I've got some news.

First of all, we have two possible site admins interested in taking over the web site. Those are Draken Stark as posted above as well as cmptch who wrote me a pm with a small alpha. Guys, I'd suggest you post your links here so everyone can have a complete overview. It's great that finally good webdesigners want to take over the project! My skills are rather limited, but still I'd be able to do some minor things around. Feel free to use stuff from my webspace, btw. I'd appreciate if you guys would work together sooner or later since I think eventually having two websites wouldn't look too professional.

Things I'd like to see within the site:
- Download counters
- Registration optional for uploaders
- The possibility to upload/delete files/links via an account, either for admins only or for everyone, but then there should be a comment/vote function.
- Form mailers/pm functions for modders and admins

loki1950 has also contacted me. A subforum is most likely not possible, but a forum at the main page should be no problem. I'll wait until the outcome of this poll. If we eventually want to keep the forum here, I'll open a nomination thread for moderators, followed by an election poll.
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Post by cmptch »

@Draken Stark,

I'm checking out options for a cms that will work with what Dilloh has suggested. Right Now, the "Alpha site" doesn't cut it, but it's very easy to update. Lose good stuff with ease of use.

Currently it's Exponent, and it looks nice and fresh, but without a little modification on my part it's not where it should be with the uploads. We're talking 3 or more months to have a decent looking uploads section with a download counter and a vote/comments section.

I'm looking into a few others, installing, testing, checking for user/editor ease.

Dilloh saw the site, it took about an hour to install, configure, setup, user/groups, and add content. That includes learning the system as well.

I'm going to install others and setup content for review as well. When I get a healthy looking setup going I'll provide links and provide access to a demo users to be looked at for ease of use.

When I get back with a few Demo's I'll go ahead and start a new topic for discussion on the pro's and cons for each.

I have a few databases and php and perl to use, which makes it ideal for massive user projects, so hosting is no problem.

You can check out the current alpha at pu.opendevsource.net. PM me if you want full access, since there's staff only stuff in there as well.
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Post by micheal_andreas_stahl »

I think that it is best to keep to this forum as much as possible. That way if some one wants to join the development their don't have to be directed to a new site. Also old members don't have to join a new forum and existing high ranking important members (spiritplumber, chuckstarchaser, klauss, ect.) don't have to jo to a now forum.
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Post by Dilloh »

I agree with andy, it's a good point that I don't want to scare away the developers or some users which both might have good suggestions if we're stuck with the one or another thing.

A good example for an interesting mod download site is e.g. www.bcfiles.com or one of the affiliated sites, though bcfiles offers too many links, ads and functions to not be confusing. But it has a really good shell for mods called bcmp, and if we'd have something like that, everybody could mod without having to look at PU/canonHUD compatibility. And as far as I know, Bridge Commander also uses many python files.

But that's far away right now :wink:
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Post by Draken Stark »

lol, well I think we're getting a bit too overly imaginative. This is a completely moldable site, made to fit our needs and wants.
If you don't want a complex site then dont give it too many features that are off the wall. The site I had in mind was going to be a basic structure.

You click on the FAQ page, you get a new page with a small list of topics in a table too. Plain and simple. A current list just includes four things from off the top of my head and for hyperlinks... other than the menu, those four hyperlinks are it. The site isn't meant to replace this forum either, just a link to this one and that simple.

A very plain layout of the site (I hope this turns out right) would look more like this:
___________________________________________
Title Banner

Menu:
Mod DL list (these are not actual names)
General FAQ
Forum
Links

___________________________________________
then after all that the simple four hyperlinks on the FAQ page would be just like:

(example: not the final result)
Ship Specs: (Small description)
Cargo/Jump Routes: (Small description)
Walkthrough: (Small description)
How to Mod PR: (Small description)
ect.

Just four simple and plain hyperlinks :) (for now)
If you ask me there's a style that Dilloh already had for the site and I think it looked nice so I'm sticking to the blue and black theme he had. In terms of use and the point in making this site; it's just to provide a simple portal to this forum and make the mods that are introduced here easy to find again for people to download. Also to have an FAQ and information about how to make your own mods to the game.

This is NOT a site that's going to be cluttered up or have too many hoops to jump through to get to juicy stuff. :o My personal goal is to have maybe three clicks maximum before getting to actual information and make sure there isn't a menu that's so cluttered that you feel like it's a waste of time to read through all the hyperlinks. (I know the opposite could be said about my posts :lol: lol)

And one last note, any feed back on this is welcome. I really should make a new thread soon for this really, but I'd like to have a general layout of the site done so people could not only read about what's getting done but see at least some of the progress too. I'm still working on recreating the site for now as a "4.0 transitional" (like most sites out there) instead of the current "frameset" one (which isn't friendly with bookmarks or favorites, in what I think would be very handy for the walkthroughs and such.). So really it's all a matter of putting in the filler now so you can see what the content will look like and applying the theme. I hope to be finished really soon once my class starts to hit the next subject, which is supposed to start this week. I'm hoping it wont be heavy on the homework so I'll have a lot more extra time to work on it. Best bet the same day I get to look at it myself and see the site work and look the same in IE and FireFox is when I start to hand over the pages to Dilloh for hosting and editing the content if needed. Hope this lightens up some of your hopes and hearts out there. Looking forward to the comments. 8)
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Post by micheal_andreas_stahl »

I'm a member of another forum that has just changed hosts. It was a marathon to do it. The thing that really affeacts the end user is the fact the posts, pictures, mods, files, ect got lost.
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Post by Draken Stark »

That's why I'm not for creating a new forum. Just link to this one and call it good. We already have a lot of good stuff here and it would be a shame to lose any of it. Anyone remember the old multiplayer beta that was about? Just try to find it by hand going through all the different threads. It's crazy to have to do that for every single file.

Oh and hosting the files off the website is going to kill bandwidth one of these days. I think it'd be best to just keep the files on the forums and just "host" the files via links from the forums. It would mean that much less traffic for the site.

EDIT>> On the note of having two different sites... while in development I think this wouldn't be a bad idea... just in the end anything that one has that the other doesn't, could be merged. Think of it as rather large scale brainstorming.
What I think would be great though... is if we would split up the project instead of working on two different versions of the same site.

@Dilloh
Does your site host support php?

@cmptch
Would you like to try and tackle the admin pages of the site or should I try and take care of that? Personally I would prefer just hard coding in any updates in the html files

@Dilloh
I did see what you've done already on the site. I'm sure it wouldn't be hard for you at all once you get to study the code for yourself. Just as simple as copying a tidbit of code from what I'd have and pasting it in the right spot and then editing the contents. Copy-Paste-Edit-Save. Also if you ever get the feeling that you've broken the code ever, PM me and I'll look at the source and give you a fixed version asap. As of right now the site is very easy to edit, and I'll also add some documentation so you know where to copy and paste, and what you should edit for whatever you'd need to update. Please post with any objections you'd have on this as there are much easier ways... When it comes to an admin page to do this for you, php would be something very nice to have. Also Imho most admin pages are just as easy to use as editing the html tags.
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Dilloh
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Post by Dilloh »

Okay, I'm convinced. I always wanted to go deeper with my webdesign knowledge, and maybe I learn it by doing. Deal me in as site admin.

About the two site brainstorming concept, I mostly agree with one objection - If you both put all your love, time, knowledge and energy into it, I hope we won't end up in a situation where one site will "win" and the other site will go down the drain. I don't like quoting myself, but getting tribute payed is essential as we get no other reward. E.g. I could cry out when I see guys who make really good mods and get only few downloads.

My webspace supports php, although I made no use of it. I'd rather appreciate a more representative URL, something like paralleluniverse.subdomain.com. Plus, my server is situated in Germany, which has proven not bad at all... The last 6 months, it has been down for just 2 days and Germany has a fXXXing good broadband infrastructure.
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Post by ace123 »

It is pretty easy to export database tables... I don't see why your host did not decide to do that, unless they were either lazy, switching forum software, or else merging two forums together.

Speaking of switching forum software, I believe PHPBB3 is going to be released soon (i.e. probably before the next release of Windows).
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Post by micheal_andreas_stahl »

I could help out as moderator.
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Post by cmptch »

Dilloh wrote:If you both put all your love, time, knowledge and energy into it, I hope we won't end up in a situation where one site will "win" and the other site will go down the drain.
I agree whole heartedly with this. I'd rather it be a team effort than 2 individual effort.

You mentioned that you'd rather have a subdomain, I can cover you there, even if I have to point a domain to you site.

As I told Dilloh, I can give FTP Access as well. web ftp has a habit of crashing on files over about 19mb, so any large patches should be directly FTP'd to a site.

I'm starting a new topic to discuss the site fundamentals.
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