WCU ships in Privateer

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z30
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WCU ships in Privateer

Post by z30 »

I was able to transfer the WCU Ferret into Privateer. Note that the texture of this model seems to be unfinished (or maybe I need to apply a patch).

It's not a simple cut & paste, the columns of the units.csv file in WCU are not in the same order as PR's and some of the entries don't seem to apply.

Despite it's unfinished state, I'll be testing this fighter under the PR12-PU-1.0 environment.

The Ferret is slower than the Stilleto at 1200kph, though as fast as the Demon. Stock is more heavily armed , carrying 2 mass drivers and 2 HS.

Reactor is level 2 & max shield is 1 just like the Talons.

It also has twice the jump capacity of the PR ships, will fiddle around with this model and see if I can bring other more complete ships in. The Ferret first appeard in Wing Commander 2 and was a starter ship, just like the Tarsus is in PR.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wing_Comma ... e_Kilrathi
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Post by Gosshawk »

Well, considering WCU is WIP itself, this is a very good start.

Keep up the great, no, phenominal work z30. Just let me know when you need any contributions.
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Post by z30 »

Gosshawk wrote:Well, considering WCU is WIP itself, this is a very good start.

Keep up the great, no, phenominal work z30. Just let me know when you need any contributions.
Thank you :)

I've attached the WCU MPL & units CSV files along with the work files I used in migrating the Ferret.

At this point, I'd like to throw open the floor as to what WCU ships we should include. There are several interesting possibilities, all have balance implications :

Cutlass - a heavy pirate fighter, blackmarket product assembled from the Scimitar & Raptor frames

Scimitar - WC I Confed Medium fighter , retired nearly 45 years before Privateer took place. This would probably be militia

Raptor - WC I Confed Heavy fighter.

The Hornet I'm really thinking of including as a light militia fighter, strong sentimental reasons if nothing else. Quotes from Wikipedia on WC I below .

---------------------

* Hornet Light Fighter: small, fast and agile, the Hornet was the Confederation's premier dogfighter. Its lesser defenses were offset by its agility. It was armed with two laser cannons, two dumbfires and one heat seeking missile.


* CF-105 Scimitar Medium Fighter: though sturdier than the Hornet, it was also far less maneuverable; sources disagree on its age, but the design at least 15 years old and possibly 100. It employed two Mass Drivers, three HS and two DF. It was officially retired in 2655, during the events of Secret Missions 2, and replaced with the Rapier.


* Raptor Heavy Fighter: armed with two Neutron Guns, two Mass Drivers, two IR, two HS, a FF and a mine, this was the Claw's big stick. The Confed weapon of choice for assaults on enemy starships, or for burning unlucky fighters out of the sky with a salvo of high-damage shots.
------------------------

The Jalkehi Kilrathi heavy fighter is also in WCU - and many other entries in the units.csv

Want to take a look at the Cutlass (or any other interesting possibilties) ? There's just so many choices I don't quite know where to start.

Lorewise, we just have to figure out into which faction each converted ship will go.
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Last edited by z30 on Sun Jul 30, 2006 4:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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WingCommander Technology & Weapons reference

Post by z30 »

http://experts.about.com/e/w/wi/Wing_Co ... hicles.htm

A great site, with details on space vessels, weapons and jump drive technology. More importantly it has a lot of timelines for each craft, including which part of WC universe has it.

http://tactics.solsector.net/joans.htm

Joan's Fighting (WC) Spacecraft, with thumbnail details on Confed & Kilrathi craft plus snapshots of models. Just take a look at the Ferret :)
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Hornet Confed Light Fighter

Post by z30 »

The Ferret has been sucessfully integrated into PR universe, I got jumped by one right after the Tayla mission where you get to piss off the Confeds :)

Faction ships module now produces two Ferrets for every Stilleto out there. This makes sense since this craft *was* the standard Confed light patrol fighter, Stilleto was usually used exclusively for reconaissance.

Since the Ferret replaced the Hornet, the latter will now be migrated to the militia faction. Some stats from JFS (Joan's Fighting Spacecraft ) :

-------------------------

Class : Confed Light Fighter
Max afterburner speed : 1280 kph
Weapons : 2 Lasers, 2 Light missiles & 1 medium
-------------------------

One of my concerns now is how we'll beef up the Pirates faction, the WCU Cutlass is one possibility.
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Post by Gosshawk »

Equiping the militia with 2654 designs would probably help them, and the 2667 designs for the confed forces should be the limit as most of the newer fighters would be on the front lines instead of in gemini. Adding a couple of out of date craft should round out the ship selection nicely. If we can make decent militia and confed lines, it would be worth persuing something resembling a career. Maybe add an old carrier for the top of a confed path? I don't know how far it can go. Both Confed and the Kilrathi are minor players in Gemini. It's mainly between the guilds, militia, retros, and pirates. More pirate and retro craft would be good. Maybe even changes to allow a retro career?

I never thought my little experiment with a turret on a tarsus would help start a project like this. I know you've been trying to improve the orion and figure away to improve the ship selection for awile. I'm glad I could help. Anyways, as always, keep it up and I'll help where I can.

Cheers
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Post by z30 »

Gosshawk wrote:Equiping the militia with 2654 designs would probably help them, and the 2667 designs for the confed forces should be the limit as most of the newer fighters would be on the front lines instead of in gemini. Adding a couple of out of date craft should round out the ship selection nicely. If we can make decent militia and confed lines, it would be worth persuing something resembling a career. Maybe add an old carrier for the top of a confed path? I don't know how far it can go. Both Confed and the Kilrathi are minor players in Gemini. It's mainly between the guilds, militia, retros, and pirates. More pirate and retro craft would be good. Maybe even changes to allow a retro career?

I never thought my little experiment with a turret on a tarsus would help start a project like this. I know you've been trying to improve the orion and figure away to improve the ship selection for awile. I'm glad I could help. Anyways, as always, keep it up and I'll help where I can.

Cheers
It's always the case that one small thing triggers a landslide hehe . The Tarsus Mk2 fills a critical gap in the trader line and allowed us to make a robust merchanter career. We've got a fine PR mechanteer career thanks to what you started.

I like the 2654/2667 guidelines that you mentioned - let's go that route.

Fyi, I'm finding discrepancies in ship speeds - the WCU Ferret hits 1200kph but the (older) Hornet tops it at 1300. I'm going to align it so the Ferret maxes out at 1300 and the Hornet at 1200.

Looking at > 1000 kph PR ships :

Kukhri - 1100 kph
Gothri, Demon, Hornet - 1200 kph
Ferret - 1300 kph
Stilleto - 1400 kph

I'm hoping that the main missions don't get thrown out of whack with these additions.

I like the idea of a militia career very much, if we could script or get someone to do it then the Militia office would pay top price for :

In System Escort
In System Patrol
In System Clean Sweep
In System Rescue
In System Bounty

It would also be cool if players had to make choices, for example if you take the Militia path then the Hunter Guild (& it's ships) is barred to you.

Strong ship lines in there would definitely help.

Got the Hornet in the game, still weeding out bugs though.
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Piracy faction

Post by z30 »

I knew they were buried somewhere here when I read your retro career suggestion and remembered some die hard players who elected to take the difficult & unpopular pirate path.

From Spaceman's sticky :

Piracy and economic system:

http://vegastrike.sourceforge.net/forum ... php?t=4421

http://vegastrike.sourceforge.net/forum ... php?t=6301

http://vegastrike.sourceforge.net/forum ... php?t=6033
--------------------------------

All very interesting threads, if Pirates had a Mission office just like the rest then it could become lucrative to be one. With the new ship population densities in place, you'd have to do your piracy outside merchant,militia & confed systems lurking & waiting for passing traders (which sounds just right).

More Pirate bases maybe? Definitely needs a better ship line specially if we follow through the incompatible careers idea.
Last edited by z30 on Sun Jul 30, 2006 2:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Hornet CVL

Post by z30 »

I've decided that there will be two versions of the Hornet in PR. The original WCU Hornet (w/ speed tweaked to 1200kph) will only be available as random ships, wingmen or cargo. Its top speed is too game breaking for the early missions, this was one of the reasons why the Demon only becomes available after Palan.

The Hornet CVL will be available for purchase as a Light Militia ship for civilian consumption. Price will be 40k to match the TarsusMk2.

Top speed is just 1000kph but it will have stronger shields (level2) than the stock version and be able to mount medium guns. Missile complement will be heavier as well.

This will give the Tarsus pilot two ways to go, take the TarsusMk2 and be merchant or the Hornet CVL and be a hunter escort.

Fighter line will be :

HornetCVL --> Kukhri --> Centurion

The gap between the Kukhri & Centurion is still too large and I'm not convinced the PR Centurion is all that great and worth the money. But it's a good beginning.

More debugging alas, so in the meantime here are a few more Hornet shots.
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Post by z30 »

Gosshawk, I need help to clean up the Ferret, Hornet & HornetCVL unit entries.

My HornetCVL ship won't lock - even with HS. Could you check whether you can actually upgrade the radar in your game? I've set the HCVL to Merchant to bypass the militia eq limits.

Even at reduced speed, the civilian Hornet is a very nice dogfighter. I tweaked it to have 3 guns. Reminds me of the Dralthi, slim and very hard to hit and the X effect of the wing guns is not as great as the Gladius.

Unit folders of Ferret & Hornet included, no need for cockpit files - they use the Gladius.

Faction ship module in zip archive already has the 3 new ships in, for now the HornetCVL is in the merchant ship generation list.
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Post by Gosshawk »

You forgot to input values in columns BT, BU, BV on hornetcvl.blank. Also column BR should be true. These control tracking cones. Thats if you want a default radar installed.

If you want to upgrade the radar in game, Then Colomns BQ & BS need to be 0, and BR stay false, the rest stay the same.

Also, your ITTS flag should be false in column BP. Unless you want it on equipped by default.

The .template ship line needs to be TRUE 2 TRUE 2.00E+38 180 180 180 for the radar to be upgradeable. this could explain why youve been having radar issues.
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Post by DualJoe »

I noticed you are using the old hornet-model, but with the texture flipped . It seems you are using the same version of mesher as me, so you'll probably need to flip it vertically.

You could also put my newer version of the Hornet in there. It is still a WIP, but it is more detailed and complete than the one you are currently using.
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Post by rockstar »

DualJoe, there's still a landing gear missing ;)
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Post by DualJoe »

I've got a rather nice set of landinggear actually. Custom made for the Hornet by Chuck Starchaser.

The only real problem is that I haven't got a clue how to add it to the game complete with subunits, lights, engine-glow and such.
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Post by z30 »

Gosshawk wrote:You forgot to input values in columns BT, BU, BV on hornetcvl.blank. Also column BR should be true. These control tracking cones. Thats if you want a default radar installed.

If you want to upgrade the radar in game, Then Colomns BQ & BS need to be 0, and BR stay false, the rest stay the same.

Also, your ITTS flag should be false in column BP. Unless you want it on equipped by default.

The .template ship line needs to be TRUE 2 TRUE 2.00E+38 180 180 180 for the radar to be upgradeable. this could explain why youve been having radar issues.
Many thanks for the good job at finding the flaws. I'll correct these in short order and post the updated files.
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Post by z30 »

DualJoe wrote:I noticed you are using the old hornet-model, but with the texture flipped . It seems you are using the same version of mesher as me, so you'll probably need to flip it vertically.

You could also put my newer version of the Hornet in there. It is still a WIP, but it is more detailed and complete than the one you are currently using.
We'll be glad to use the new model :) No actual graphic manipulation was done, the ferret & hornet units folder were just copied over as is from WCU to PR.

I used WCU 0.2.3 without patches fyi, so a lot of my files here are probably obsolete.

Gosshawk and I can take care of generating the relevant rows for units.csv & the master_parts_list.csv, it's the modelling/texturing/reformatting of graphic data that we can't handle.
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Post by micheal_andreas_stahl »

Will you make it so that thay will carry more missiles? I think it was z30 that said that thay carried their missle externally while PR carried them in a internal rack.

Will an other version be released with all the new stuff that have been done in it or will all this be just add-ons? if so i will won't upgrade to Pr 1.2 until then.
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Post by z30 »

micheal_andreas_stahl wrote:Will you make it so that thay will carry more missiles? I think it was z30 that said that thay carried their missle externally while PR carried them in a internal rack.

Will an other version be released with all the new stuff that have been done in it or will all this be just add-ons? if so i will won't upgrade to Pr 1.2 until then.
The personal mod PRPU 1.1 just needs the Drayman CVL at this point, the Ferret & Hornet models are settling down.

I'm thinking of giving the civilian version of the Hornet two 3 round missile launchers. No plans yet of making the Ferret available early in the game or making a civilian version of it.

The faster, more agile and harder to hit your ship is the less missiles you actually need. Orion needs the most because it's such a big fat target, you need to kill things fast before they get you.

The Hornet & Ferret are just like the Dralthi, they take much less damage because they're razor thin and very maneuverable. They can actually get by with level 1 shields.

If you badly want these WCU ships then just wait for the next mod version, maybe a week and a half from now.

And here is todays obligatory Hornet shot :
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Kilrathi Jalkehi Heavy Fighter

Post by z30 »

here is the Kilrathi heavy fighter which is, I think, the precursor of the Gothri. I've aligned it with the stats in JFS, the original numbers made it very Orion like which is at odds with the Jalkehi's description as "fairly nimble for its class".

Top speed is 950 and the shields are level 4 & reactor level 5 following the Gothri pattern. I'm experimenting with the gun mounts, would appreciate it if someone can give me an idea of just how heavy this ship's armament could be.

If there are better candidates in WCU, just let me know - will take a good look at it.

Also attached the ship file which goes under the units directory. The creator seems to have been confused about the ship name fyi.

Goss, I've found the Python code which controls the guild interactions. From what I've seen it's very possible to build a militia-like guild office with less effort than I expected. Missing pieces would be the animation of the guild officer and the voice files plus office layout.

I've already added Defend missions to the Merchant guild computer and Patrol missions to the Hunters pc.

Adding bounty missions to the Merchant's guild ( these are mentioned in the guild officer's spiel but never appear) makes the selection go haywire - most of the discs end up being bounties.
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Post by rockstar »

Ehm, how many mounts does a Jalkehi have? Dunno :lol:

Maybe 2 medium, 2 heavy and 2 special/heavy missile? Don't know about the turrets... would guess there's one rear turret in place.

btw. I think ALL ships in your special version of PR should be able to be bought as a stock version - dunno if this is what you meant by "civil".
In Privateer you play a character who is right what the game's title says - a privateer or freelancer or whatever you would like to call it. Whenever I would get my hands on a Ferret e.g. I would try to optimize this ship with the best technical upgrades available for me - even if this would mean to customize certain componets. This normally ends up in ship.stock (refurbished). It's kinda annoying if you only got a ship.confed or ship.pirate predefined w/o the option to customize it - at least this is kinda annoying to me. You would be welcome to spend some time thinking about what the specs of a Ferret e.g. might be if this ship does NOT have any predefined upgrades build in.
Anyways, I think whatever you're doing here, z30... it's great work! And a good opportunity to test how far PR might be extendable.
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Post by Gosshawk »

z30 Even if it's not an office but a button at the computer, it would b an improvement.

Rockstar, Civ ships in this reference are just non military ships.The ones we're working on will all be purchasable and upgradable to give the player more options as to how they play the game. That's all we're trying to accomplish with this mod.
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Post by Gosshawk »

According to joans, the Jalkehi has 4 laser cannons, 1 particle cannon, a neutron rear turret, 4 IR, and 1 DF. So call it 4 Light, 1 light medium heavy, the turret, 4 light medium missiles, and 1 light medium heavy missiles. or two light, two light medium even. Adding kilrathi ships from this era should be ok, as their newer ships would be on the front lines aswell.

Maybe even give the retro a couple of 2654 kilrathi designs to round them out slightly. Maybe give them the Krant. could be fun
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Post by rockstar »

And that's right what I wanna hear and why I wrote this bunch of confusing lines... beer and foreign languages is just like more beer and your native language :lol:

All right dudes, keep on the good work *thumbs up*

btw. I will not promise tooooo much, but I might be able to "organise" you a militia office as soon as I get in reach of a more reliable piece of antique computer technoligy. Well, and maybe the source material of the exsisting offices... if some of you got some time you might upload the images of the offices as well as the close up images of the peoples you're able to talk to in the bar... as far as possible. Thanks.
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Post by z30 »

Gosshawk wrote:According to joans, the Jalkehi has 4 laser cannons, 1 particle cannon, a neutron rear turret, 4 IR, and 1 DF. So call it 4 Light, 1 light medium heavy, the turret, 4 light medium missiles, and 1 light medium heavy missiles. or two light, two light medium even. Adding kilrathi ships from this era should be ok, as their newer ships would be on the front lines aswell.

Maybe even give the retro a couple of 2654 kilrathi designs to round them out slightly. Maybe give them the Krant. could be fun
My great frustration is that a lot of the WCU ships are just raw models (just like the Ferret). Krant is in that category but the ff. Kilrathi ship folders hold promise :

Heavy Cruisers

Fralthra

Heavy Fighters

Jalthi - looks good on JCF. a giant wing heavy Kilrathi fighter would be cool. Also, I'm having problems with the Jalkehi - I think the polygon count is too high. I'm running into performance problems on my 1.5 Ghz PC, first time ever using PR.

Medium Fighters

Jrathrek - bit of a problem here. Good ship and the folder seems complete but this was a design that a Kilrathi defector brought back to Confed.

Where the hell do we place it? Kilrathi where it can be a counterbalance to the Kukhri or the Hunters Guild so that a 150k alternative fighter to the Centurion is available ?

Transport

Dorkathi
Dorkir - older Kilrathi transport/troopship

[Edit : Bit of good news, the Raptor files look fully fleshed out in WCU. It's perfect as a heavy militia fighter at the time of PR and the JFS history supports that role]
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Post by z30 »

rockstar wrote:And that's right what I wanna hear and why I wrote this bunch of confusing lines... beer and foreign languages is just like more beer and your native language :lol:

All right dudes, keep on the good work *thumbs up*

btw. I will not promise tooooo much, but I might be able to "organise" you a militia office as soon as I get in reach of a more reliable piece of antique computer technoligy. Well, and maybe the source material of the exsisting offices... if some of you got some time you might upload the images of the offices as well as the close up images of the peoples you're able to talk to in the bar... as far as possible. Thanks.
Thank gods, some (possible) help at last *G*

I'll try to upload the existing offices as soon as possible.
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