COMPLAINT OF A FUTURE DEV ( WORKFLOW )

A forum for the discussion and development of programs to assist working on or playing with the Vegastrike engine and data sets.
Post Reply
ezee
Intrepid Venturer
Intrepid Venturer
Posts: 703
Joined: Tue Feb 11, 2014 12:47 am
Location: FRANCE
Contact:

COMPLAINT OF A FUTURE DEV ( WORKFLOW )

Post by ezee »

Hi .
I hope that you won't be upset by that post , but i need to discuss about the
actual workflow . ( just to try to get the creative flow unlocked :wink: )

The actual SVN system is awfull to work with . ( under windows )

Reasons :

_Too much things are dispatched ( Visual studio solution , Data , Win32 )
There is no real documentation IN THE SOLUTIONS to explain how to setup
the environnement . And where thing must be actually picked in the svn .
Old wiki , insufficent windows instructions :
http://wiki.vega-strike.org/HowTo:VCPP_Compiling


Example :

I build vegastrike , launch the debug in visual studio , the debug is not working
because the .exe need dependencies .
WE NEED A POSTBUILD OPTION TO COPY THE .EXE IN THE WIN32 FOLDER !!
( i've done it manually , and now i can step into the program .
That is a basic requisite ,don't you think so ?
You may say " hey that's your job man !" , where i would reply " of course ,
i do it for me and i want this work to be already done for the next dev that
won't have to loose time with a such trivial task .
I think productivity in the workflow . :wink: ")


_ Which DATA folder to use ?
An inexperimented dev ( for VStrike i mean ) will be disapointed to find a data folder in
VSOgre for exemple , but which don't contain the datas needed to run the game .
Confusing ...
So we must understand that the content of the data folder in vsogre must be merged in the global data ?
Global data that musn't be included in the win32 folder , but only his content ?
Hey ... :roll:

_ NON EXCLUSIVE DATA FOLDER
yeah , if the data folder to use is this folder :
http://svn.code.sf.net/p/vegastrike/code/trunk/data
This folder contain non-specific win32/64 files .
That would be better to have in the trunk a DATAWIN32 to help the users to checkout
the right folder . ( okay , that is a duplication of a lot of datas but who cares ? )

And so many unanswered questions ...

The wiki should contain more precise information and tutorial for the modders or dev team
that are new . Don't you think so ?

I wonder if the staff really want to open his doors , and recruit people to make VegaStrike evolve .
How many devs could have worked for that project ,
but leaved because of a bad communication or a lack of organisation and help ?

I really try to involve myself , but i wonder if someone cares ?
In a long term collaboration project , there is always a starting point .
Work alone in a such big project is not enjoyable and viable .
Efforts seem to have been done years ago to recruit and help new comers :
http://wiki.vega-strike.org/Development:SVN_Tree ( updated 3 years ago )
Some efforts must be done , REALLY , to give a chance to VegaStrike .

I'm really new , and it's not cumfortable for me to write such things and " criticize " ,
but understand that i really like scifi pictures,games, book etc ... , and vegastrike is an
opportuniy for me to be active in that context . But i am stuck with " trivial shits " ... :evil:

I know some of you are here since 2005 or before , and i can't imagine all that you lived.
But ... is there's a chance for a change ? MMO , NETWORK , AI , RENDER , GAMELOGIC , PHYSICS can't be hold by only a man .
And can you imagine my efforts to get in the dev ?

My hope is to discuss with the actual dev team ( who are you ? ) and talk a little about the workflow.
Concerning the WIki update , i am volunteer to make it ( for win32 only ) when i will have successfully
made the all tour ( compile , link , make a setup ) .

Good week-end to you all .
:wink:

edit : one more thing , check this example of organisation in the Ogre3d community :
http://www.ogre3d.org/download/source
That is the way i think :
_ Experimented devs make the source packs accessible to new devs without SVN .
yeah , Ogre can be hard sometimes to setup ( mainly because of dependencies ) , but
the dev team do the better to help .
We have the same problem here , but solutions exists !

EDIT : yeah , slowly i understand the hidden logic of the VSDEV , and i managed to deal
with " ce bazard " . :lol:
Apparently , i found the right way and will be able to dev the ogre part soon :

Code: Select all

12:37:22: Creating resource group General
12:37:22: Creating resource group Internal
12:37:22: Creating resource group Autodetect
12:37:22: SceneManagerFactory for type 'DefaultSceneManager' registered.
12:37:22: Registering ResourceManager for type Material
12:37:22: Registering ResourceManager for type Mesh
12:37:22: Registering ResourceManager for type Skeleton
12:37:22: MovableObjectFactory for type 'ParticleSystem' registered.
12:37:22: OverlayElementFactory for type Panel registered.
12:37:22: OverlayElementFactory for type BorderPanel registered.
12:37:22: OverlayElementFactory for type TextArea registered.
12:37:22: Registering ResourceManager for type Font
12:37:22: ArchiveFactory for archive type FileSystem registered.
12:37:22: ArchiveFactory for archive type Zip registered.
12:37:22: DDS codec registering
12:37:22: FreeImage version: 3.13.1
12:37:22: This program uses FreeImage, a free, open source image library supporting all common bitmap formats.
 See http://freeimage.sourceforge.net for details
12:37:22: Supported formats: bmp,ico,jpg,jif,jpeg,jpe,jng,koa,iff,lbm,mng,pbm,pbm,pcd,pcx,pgm,pgm,png,ppm,ppm,
ras,tga,targa,tif,tiff,wap,wbmp,
wbm,psd,cut,xbm,xpm,gif,hdr,g3,sgi,exr,j2k,j2c,jp2,pfm,pct,pict,pic,bay,bmq,cr2,crw,cs1,dc2,dcr,dng,erf,fff,hdr,k25,
kdc,mdc,mos,mrw,nef,orf,pef,pxn,
raf,raw,rdc,sr2,srf,arw,3fr,cine,ia,kc2,mef,nrw,qtk,rw2,sti,drf,dsc,ptx,cap,iiq,rwz
12:37:22: Registering ResourceManager for type HighLevelGpuProgram
12:37:22: Registering ResourceManager for type Compositor
12:37:22: MovableObjectFactory for type 'Entity' registered.
12:37:22: MovableObjectFactory for type 'Light' registered.
12:37:22: MovableObjectFactory for type 'BillboardSet' registered.
12:37:22: MovableObjectFactory for type 'ManualObject' registered.
12:37:22: MovableObjectFactory for type 'BillboardChain' registered.
12:37:22: MovableObjectFactory for type 'RibbonTrail' registered.
12:37:22: OGRE EXCEPTION(6:FileNotFoundException): 'D:\program\experimental\win32\bin/ogre/plugins_w.cfg' 
file not found! in ConfigFile::load at ..\..\OgreMain\src\OgreConfigFile.cpp (line 83)
12:37:22: D:\program\experimental\win32\bin/ogre/plugins_w.cfg not found, automatic plugin loading disabled.
12:37:22: *-*-* OGRE Initialising
12:37:22: *-*-* Version 1.7.3 (Cthugha)
12:37:22: OGRE EXCEPTION(6:FileNotFoundException): 'D:\program\experimental\win32\bin/ogre/resources.cfg' file not found! 
in ConfigFile::load at ..\..\OgreMain\src\OgreConfigFile.cpp (line 83)
Here is now my homeland , i am confident in the ogre3d context .
I will try to upgrade to the ogre 1.8.1 version which i use.
:D

Code: Select all

 if (!track.HasWeapons())
            {
                // So what are you going to threaten me with? Exhaustion gas?
                return ThreatLevel::None;
            }
Vegastrike evolved
DEV YOUTUBE CHANNEL
Vegastrike evolved wiki
klauss
Elite
Elite
Posts: 7243
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2005 2:40 pm
Location: LS87, Buenos Aires, República Argentina

Re: COMPLAINT OF A FUTURE DEV ( WORKFLOW )

Post by klauss »

ezee wrote:Hi .
I hope that you won't be upset by that post , but i need to discuss about the
actual workflow . ( just to try to get the creative flow unlocked :wink: )

The actual SVN system is awfull to work with . ( under windows )
Well, first, a disclaimer. If you're working with vegaogre, that isn't us. That was made by someone (that got the idea here), and was generously published, but we have no blame of anything happening there.

Well, I actually have commit access to that, but I never got involved. I barely have enough time to read posts in VS and do some small development, so I can't really grab two projects. If I had the time, I probably could do something about vegaogre. But I don't. So don't blame VS, blame VegaOgre's admins (one of which is I, but only in name, remember that).

That said, Vega Strike's own build setup in windows is probably as flawed. Feel free to improve and document it. We have very little windows manpower, pheonixstorm being the primary culprit of things working at least, but he's already doing a lot by keeping the windows builds in SVN updated and fixing all the bugs I introduce because I don't use windows.

So... I'm glad you hate the status of build documentation and setup in windows. You can now fix it. And we'll be glad for it.

But do know that 90% of the blame goes to Microsoft. Their tools are just horribly incompatible between versions, so we have to maintain vega-vc8 vega-vc9 vega-vc7 vega-OMFGTOOMANYVERSIONS. We can't. That's impossible for anything but a company.

So, if you find a solution that can be maintained by our small windows team, I will buy you a beer :) (you'll have to come to Argentina but hey...)
Oíd mortales, el grito sagrado...
Call me "Menes, lord of Cats"
Wing Commander Universe
ezee
Intrepid Venturer
Intrepid Venturer
Posts: 703
Joined: Tue Feb 11, 2014 12:47 am
Location: FRANCE
Contact:

Re: COMPLAINT OF A FUTURE DEV ( WORKFLOW )

Post by ezee »

Well, first, a disclaimer. If you're working with vegaogre, that isn't us. That was made by someone (that got the idea here), and was generously published, but we have no blame of anything happening there.
Well , i'm not blaming , just saying that the way the information is shared ( organized ) could be
improoved . Now i think i got the picture , but it was very hard to figure out the destination folder .
( win32/bin is where we actually paste the content of the data folder , plus the python 2.7 modules )
SO win32/bin is the root of the SVN version .
Right ?
That said, Vega Strike's own build setup in windows is probably as flawed. Feel free to improve and document it. We have very little windows manpower, pheonixstorm being the primary culprit of things working at least, but he's already doing a lot by keeping the windows builds in SVN updated and fixing all the bugs I introduce because I don't use windows.
ah ah ah ! no problem .
I will do the same for the Mac version .
:lol:
But do know that 90% of the blame goes to Microsoft. Their tools are just horribly incompatible between versions, so we have to maintain vega-vc8 vega-vc9 vega-vc7 vega-OMFGTOOMANYVERSIONS. We can't. That's impossible for anything but a company.
Probably . Or a well organized " band of brothers " .
Or brotherhood .
Definition: Space is defined as the infinite extension of the three-dimensional region in which all matter exists. The Galactic Brotherhood refers to supernatural beings of great power who spread spiritual teachings through selected humans and may be known as the Masters of the Ancient Wisdom or the Ascended Masters.
:shock:
ah ah ah ...
So, if you find a solution that can be maintained by our small windows team
I am trying to make MY SOLUTION under windows 32bits , with my machine .
The VS Ogre from the svn project is a VC8 project , i have converted it in VC9.
I will try to comment and make the things easy to understand for followers .
And continue to use the same format of datas that are cross compatibles .
If my solution is stable , i will describe the process in a wiki page .
( probably starting here : http://wiki.vega-strike.org/Development:SVN_Tree )

Personal interest :
I plan to add support for AIML ( that is XML based ) with a python lib , for NPC's .
ANd develop the IA .
I am noob with networking ...
I can work with mesh datas .
ANd other little things .

But before that , i must ensure that the setup of my programming environement with vegastrike is
ok . Tortoise is working good with svn , but Git has a better diff viewer .

EDIT : HEY , MY COMPLAINT IS AN HISTORICAL CHECKPOINT PERHAPS :

Roadmap : http://wiki.vega-strike.org/Development ... umentation
Documentation

Document the general function/flow of the game
Engine internals, API (development documentation)
Python bindings
Should we use the builtin python documentation standards for documenting this stuff--maybe in the stubs folder?
Faction documentation
0.5.1

VS Engine
[FINISHED] (safemode) Separate bin and data tree structure. Note: those who have data4.x already, set your client to not pull external repos or cancel when it tries to download data4.x. Then move your current data4.x alongside /bin, renaming it to data. Updates should work seamlessly and recurse into /data and /bin afterwards. Newcomers can just pull win32.
I updated the wiki , check if that is correct ?
http://wiki.vega-strike.org/HowTo:VCPP_ ... Express.29

Code: Select all

 if (!track.HasWeapons())
            {
                // So what are you going to threaten me with? Exhaustion gas?
                return ThreatLevel::None;
            }
Vegastrike evolved
DEV YOUTUBE CHANNEL
Vegastrike evolved wiki
nido
Merchant
Merchant
Posts: 43
Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2013 2:35 pm

Re: COMPLAINT OF A FUTURE DEV ( WORKFLOW )

Post by nido »

On linux, vegastrikes Makefiles are generated using CMake. CMake also has the ability to create (working, set up for your system) visual studio solutions. Perhaps it can be advantagous to try and make the cmake configuration work under windows and include it as default build option.
Post Reply