Weapons in need of modification

[Miramor]

Since the devs are bogged down in bigger troubles, I figured I might as well start a thread for unbalanced weapons to spare them some effort when rebalancing occurs before the final release.

To start with...

- Light ion beam: way too powerful. It looks to me like the damage statistics got carried over from the heavy ion beam rather than the original light ion beam (though IIRC the damage attenuation and power usage are correct).

- Plasma plume: known, but might as well list anyway... The range attenuation seems to make it useless even at short ranges. If it is supposed to be a short-ranged weapon, a better description is needed (e.g. describing it as a cheaper, shorter-ranged alternative to the leech gun).

- Particle beam: this should be Heavy or Capship-light, not Medium, judging from the stats.

- Incongruity gun: not really a bug, but the word "incongruity" doesn't really make sense here.

(Is this supposed to be a "discontinuity gun" as in 0.4.3? In that case, I do have to ask - wouldn't "discontinuity" basically indicate that it fired naked singularities? If so, that strikes me as being a bit beyond normal VS tech, or even crazy experimental Aera weapons - the only way I could see it happening would be if someone managed to reverse-engineer some Ancient technology, which I guess the Aera might be capable of. Of course, the damage from the gun seems pretty low for hitting someone with a naked singularity, so I could be getting the wrong impression.)

[jackS]

Since the devs are bogged down in bigger troubles, I figured I might as well start a thread for unbalanced weapons to spare them some effort when rebalancing occurs before the final release.

Firstly, thank you -- detailed testing is time consuming, and time is not always something easy to come by.

To start with...

- Light ion beam: way too powerful. It looks to me like the damage statistics got carried over from the heavy ion beam rather than the original light ion beam (though IIRC the damage attenuation and power usage are correct).

- Plasma plume: known, but might as well list anyway... The range attenuation seems to make it useless even at short ranges. If it is supposed to be a short-ranged weapon, a better description is needed (e.g. describing it as a cheaper, shorter-ranged alternative to the leech gun).

- Particle beam: this should be Heavy or Capship-light, not Medium, judging from the stats.

I'll take a look over these, probably tonight.

- Incongruity gun: not really a bug, but the word "incongruity" doesn't really make sense here.

(Is this supposed to be a "discontinuity gun" as in 0.4.3? In that case, I do have to ask - wouldn't "discontinuity" basically indicate that it fired naked singularities? If so, that strikes me as being a bit beyond normal VS tech, or even crazy experimental Aera weapons - the only way I could see it happening would be if someone managed to reverse-engineer some Ancient technology, which I guess the Aera might be capable of. Of course, the damage from the gun seems pretty low for hitting someone with a naked singularity, so I could be getting the wrong impression.)

Neh... Weapons get named all sorts of things .... but they should have descriptions that appropriately describe what they actually are
I may still change Incongruity to something more amenable, like "Dissonance".

(and no, there aren't any naked singularities being fired around -- that is indeed beyond VS tech for the extant species)

[jackS]

The particle beam, light ion beam, and heavy ion beam I find to be all balanced reasonably relative to each other. It may well be the case that all of them are a bit overpowered. It's entirely possible it's time for some swinging of the nerfing bat.

The plasma plume is exactly what it's supposed to be
(No one ever said " (plasma) FLAMETHROWERS IN SPACE" were supposed to be _effective_ )

[Miramor]

Yeah, I'd say it's nerf time. The light ion beam is much, much more powerful than some more expensive weapons, and easier to hit with; less than a second of exposure from a pair of them will blow up a Redeemer, from my experience in SVN.

(Also, I'm keeping in mind that a light ion beam is just that... a light ion beam. Basically, my view on things is that really exotic weapons wouldn't be thought up if they didn't have some potential benefit over old, reliable technology like ion beams. The way things are now, all the Confeds need in the fighter weapons department is the light and heavy ion beams for anti-fighter and assault roles, and laser beams for point defense. There's got to be some reason that they'd come up with stuff like the dissonance gun... But last I checked the only unusual weapon that really justified its existance was the shieldbreaker.)

Oh BTW, speaking of "easier to hit with" - for a while in VS, it has been hard to hit things manually with beams and even harder with guns, compared to games like No Gravity, Prophecy, and even Privateer Remake. This is still the case, even with the much better keyboard control in SVN. This could have something to do with the relatively long range of weapons compared to those in other games, and the better enemy AI, but I'm starting to think that the speeds for a lot of projectiles (generally from energy weapons) are too slow relative to the speeds of ships. When you fire a razor gun at the spot your opponent is heading towards, for instance, from a range of a couple km, they can not only dodge the warheads, but have time to turn around and move a significant distance in another direction; if you want to hit you have to spread your fire over a large area, and even then they might avoid it all. This makes the long-ranged razor gun a waste of ammo at more than 1 km or so.

(This cuts both ways - bolts from enemy ships are often very easy to dodge. It's only the fast-moving bolts (e.g. from Aera photon cannons) or the beam weapons that pose a significant threat against small ships.)

[Miramor]

Oh... And sorry for the long post above, but one more thing... What is the special damage that the plasma plume does? Is it the same type as the leech gun or something else?

[klauss]

I perzonally believe that beamz were alwayz overeffective. Zo... if nerfing iz the biz, then I'd zuggezt getting them to be more expenzive - think of beamz az high-tech couzinz of bolt gunz. The thing about beamz iz that they're too eazy to aim, they get really effective really fazt becauze of that, becauze once you realize you ztart getting rid of all other weaponz and once you're full of beamz, you can whip azz like hell - one touch of your deadly array and boom, there goez another pirate.

BTW: Zorry about the z, my keyboard'z Ezz zuddenly ztopped working - and I ran out of replacementz (I'll have to go buy one, but there'z no open ztore zaturday nightz).

[jackS]

Oh... And sorry for the long post above, but one more thing... What is the special damage that the plasma plume does? Is it the same type as the leech gun or something else?

Same -- frags the power distribution system.

[Miramor]

I perzonally believe that beamz were alwayz overeffective. Zo... if nerfing iz the biz, then I'd zuggezt getting them to be more expenzive - think of beamz az high-tech couzinz of bolt gunz. The thing about beamz iz that they're too eazy to aim, they get really effective really fazt becauze of that, becauze once you realize you ztart getting rid of all other weaponz and once you're full of beamz, you can whip azz like hell - one touch of your deadly array and boom, there goez another pirate.

BTW: Zorry about the z, my keyboard'z Ezz zuddenly ztopped working - and I ran out of replacementz (I'll have to go buy one, but there'z no open ztore zaturday nightz).

LOL... Pardon me saying so, but this is going to go down as one of the most awesome posts in VS forum history.

[mortaneous]

I always wondered what that "special" damage was...
And I agree, for their effectiveness, beams need a higher pricetag or reduced availability.

@miramor-Re:klauss - indeed that post is made of Win. Klauss, if you hadn't said anything about the keyboard, I'd have assumed you were doing an impersonation of Dr. Strangelove.

[loki1950]

Which would be appropriate since weapon technology is the subject matter

Enjoy the Choice

[klauss]

Haha... Mein her!! Agh...
We zhould enforze multigamy - at leazt zen fraulain per male vould be enough... for humanity'z zake.

Mein gott!! I'm valking!!! Ha!