Beam vs Bolt/Ball weapon accuracy?

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DarkVixen
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Beam vs Bolt/Ball weapon accuracy?

Post by DarkVixen »

Does anyone know if beam weapons are more accurate than bolt or ball (projectile) weapons?

Say if you are not so great of a shot and fast hostile ships are attacking you and you need to hit them, I found that beam weapons seem to almost always be more accurate. It's nearly impossible to hit a moving target with a projectile weapon unless it is big and very close to you.

Also, I want to specifically talk (ask) about the Rlaan Kiek beam vs the Aera Photon MK*'s, because they seem to be the two most powerful weapons for heavy fighters. Which one is better for hitting fast moving targets?

I've tried equiping an Aerus with two variations of weapons:

1 Rlaan Keik beam and 4 medium disruptor beams (with autotracking)

Then another with:

1 Aera Photon MK II and 4 Aera Photon MK III

I tried both variations in battle (dogfights) with other Aera fighters, one of the problems is that Aera fighters are almost always in groups, so I'm outnumbered 10-1. I seem to get more hits and kills with the Aera Photon MK's than the beam weapons.

But in other fights with smaller faster ships (like the Ansestor and the Entourage), the beam weapon gets more hits (the Photon's never hit anything that small and fast).

So which one is better?
TBeholder
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Re: Beam vs Bolt/Ball weapon accuracy?

Post by TBeholder »

Right now accuracy/scatter is not implemented, so all weapons are as precise as the physical model tracking them, to the limit of their ranges. Thus autotracking weapons always hit stationary objects and autotracking beams always hit anything at all.
Practically, velocity matters for projectiles a lot, of course. The faster your shot is, the less time your target have to veer from the place where the ITTS marker was when you shot, autotracking or not. Which, for example, makes autotracking IonBurster a good missile-popper even despite low RoF: it will be there by the next physical frame, so it will almost certainly hit, and the damage is enough - this simple. Matters less on head-on / tail shots.

With e.g. Ktek vs. Photon, it's more complex than this.
As usual, depends on tactics and targets. Given that Photon uses ammo, beams are better for weak targets. Against tougher ones, there are factors like shield penetration. Especially on fly-by jousting as this means always inflicting damage, not chewing through the shield. Also, do your ship even have enough power to use Ktek Beam for one good pass? Even maxed out capacitors won't hold that for very long.
In raw power at point-blank range (as in, hosing a capship while keeping right on its shield), Photon MkII (346+33 VSD/s) is outdone by Razor (600+60) or Reaper (416+66), but Hephaestus-mini is better (450+200) - and faster.
Ktek Beam is the strongest Heavy weapon without ammo, though doesn't pierce shields at all (466+0) and it holds well on range, Shield Breaker (233+0) has shorter max range, but eats less power with better efficiency (0.45 vs. 0.38 MJ/MJ) and has less dissipation. Heavy Ion Beam does (75+12) - modest, but also with good efficiency, and any shield-piercing damage sticks - but range dissipation is nasty. MW Laser (32+48) has good phasedamage, though damage on shield is mostly decorative for a Heavy weapon. Long range helps even in jousting, in that they are in your range more time than you in their, so it adds up. Conversely, if due to high relative velocity your whole pass is no more than 8 seconds, it effectively does not average, but peak damage (64+96), thanks to its long work cycle. Then again, shredding pests with shield-piercing bolts like Hyena or Redeemer at long range saves on armor repair... a lot, so it can be worthwhile in more than one way. Jackhammer has even longer range and truly hideous raw phasedamage, but due to work cycle it's even less than MW laser in average - and for long-range weapon, average is what counts.
In case you didn't figure out yet, weapons are a little broken. Though most not too badly.
So, on Areus try either MW Laser + Light Ion Beam, or Hephaestus-mini + Razor and see what happens. :twisted:

Edit: needmoresleep. Fixed errors due to an obviously mistyped beam formula.
Last edited by TBeholder on Sat Dec 07, 2013 2:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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DarkVixen
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Re: Beam vs Bolt/Ball weapon accuracy?

Post by DarkVixen »

A couple things I'm a bit confused about, the Ktek Beam does seem to bring down shields (even on a glancing blow), and the Areus's milispec reactor produces more power than the Ktek Beam uses, so I'm a bit confused about what you mentioned about the Ktek Beam not having any affect on shields?

I tried the Razor, wow, it uses a lot of energy!! But it does fire rapidly and has a long sustained range.

The Ion beams didn't seem to have much advantage over the Ktek Beam.
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Re: Beam vs Bolt/Ball weapon accuracy?

Post by CLoneWolf »

DarkVixen wrote:A couple things I'm a bit confused about, the Ktek Beam does seem to bring down shields (even on a glancing blow), and the Areus's milispec reactor produces more power than the Ktek Beam uses, so I'm a bit confused about what you mentioned about the Ktek Beam not having any affect on shields?
Ktek Beam has no phase damage, which is damage dealt directly to the hull even through an active shield. So Ktek beams need to deplete the shield completely before being able to damage the ship, and thanks to their high power they generally do; but if they faced a ship with an incredibly fast regenerating shield, they wouldn't even scratch it, while weapons with phase damage would (slowly) do, like the Heavy Ion Beam; its (927+157) stats mean that 157 phase damage (minus attenuation) are always dealt to the ship, ignoring shields.
TBeholder
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Re: Beam vs Bolt/Ball weapon accuracy?

Post by TBeholder »

Yup. But the problem is, normally you get to sit and burn only capships and bombers, and in short clashes a shield only needs to absorb one pass worth of damage. Aeran fighters have good shields, so most or all normal damage dealt in a short joust is regenerated by the time both ships turn, i.e. does nothing - this means a very good effort is needed to cause any harm at all even with Shield Breaker. Ktek beam is better at this, but needs big caps - it's voracious. Even better, Ktek bolt (1333+0) with autotracking - but it's even more voracious.

Also, fixed my derived data.
So yes, HIB (75+12 VSD/s, 0.42 MJ/MJ) is obsolete for its class. HIB is not useless, but it's not even 1/3 as good at any given job as a beam appropriate for it - even tasks as far-fetched currently as energy-efficient mass missile/mine popping merely put one more "soundly outperforms HIB!" sticker on RF MW Laser. In a mix, 1x MWL + 2x SB are better at everything than 4x HIB; SB is both stronger and more power-efficient for plain damage and MW for phasedamage, and both got better range.
Hilariously enough, LIB (100+10, 0.59 MJ/MJ) may be considered the best Medium beam (though Disruptor Beam is marginally stronger and dissipates less).
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