Questions and thoughts/handling and the mass thing

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AVBJim
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Questions and thoughts/handling and the mass thing

Post by AVBJim »

First, the Handling. Why does "Mil-Spec" ships always have lower handling/acceleration figures than the civ versions? Shouldn't the mil ships be of higher performance with the civ versions being "de-tuned" for civilian use. They should have engines and vectoring jets that they keep for only their use, aka, mil-spec parts. You see this in the game with some other aspects. For example, shield regeneration rates and even the size of reactors that can be fit in (see the mil-spec Derivative as a good example). You also have mil-spec guns, only available through your local military outlet like fighter bases and fortresses.

Why do shipyards never have ships for sale? Aren't ships manufactured in ship yards? And if it is a military ship yard, shouldn't it carry the mil-spec weapons (and other parts, if they were sold separately). Since shipyards also do major overhaul and repair, why can you not buy the mil-spec packages and have them installed at the shipyard? Would be better than buying a whole new ship.

Where is the stock version of the Franklin? It used to be in the game, but the last two versions deleted it. I really don't like the Hunter mil-spec version, not enough upgrade space. It is a heavy ship, with turrets even, but has less upgrade space than many light and medium ships. I am a bit confused why it is a heavy, at 199 tons and the Llama is a light at 255 tons. /shrug, guess it is a class thing.

The mass thing. I know a lot was covered in a previous post, but I couldn't find it, so I put it here. I understand that mass travelling at a velocity has inertia and to change vectors or even to stop, you must overcome that inertia. I also understand that each ships handling characteristics are based upon a base mass. What I don't understand is why that base mass is calculated prior to the installation of required parts, such as a reactor. Shouldn't the mass calculated for performance be based upon intended use and with all common and required parts? A fighter type craft should be calculated at the point where it has the equipment necessary to carry out it's designed function. Standard reactor for class, guns, tracking systems, etc. For cargo craft, performance standards should be based upon designed carrying capacity and baseline equipment installed, not empty. The ship has a load limit. This is not just cubic space, but should also include a mass limit (Styrofoam has less mass per cubic unit than steal which has less than lead which has less than uranium). The published performance specs would be for a ship loaded to that mass limit, again, not empty.

When leaving SPEC, why doesn't the Auto Piloting computer read the selected speed and dump you from SPEC at that speed?

There are also two different drive systems, normal and SPEC. Why? Since different ships have different speeds when SPEC takes over, it can obviously work an varying speeds, so why a second drive system? Also, why does SPEC not work near gravity wells and large objects? The presented technological level must include gravity manipulation. Why do I say this? Simple, you have to have it to create the inertial sumps necessary for humans to survive some of the acceleration factors given. Also, for SPEC to reach such high velocities presented, without inertial sumps, any biological inside it would become "strawberry jam" when accelerating to those velocities that quickly. It must also be able to vector as needed, we have all seen it juke about to miss something we didn't even see. At .99 c no reaction mass vectoring is going to react that quickly. So, if it can provide acceleration and vector, gravity can be controlled and nullified, why not use it all the time? I can understand computer enforced limits around objects and even in open space with the pilot doing the piloting instead of the computer. I say logical, because a watermelon sized object impacting a planet at .99c would look like a 30-06 hitting an egg. It falls under the category of "a bad thing". A throttle controlled version of SPEC, with appropriate lock-outs should be the only drive. Such a system, with the way SPEC currently functions, would give every ship the same performance characteristics. But, using any system requires energy. The performance would have to be changed to reflect the amount of mj/s necessary to run the drive per unit of mass. Also, the energy flow available required per unit of mass would restrict the performance based upon mass and reactor output. This would change some aspects of the game as all ships could no longer reach .99c and the top speed would reflect the point at which the reactor can no longer power the SPEC, SPEC Shielding and Combat Shields. Max combat speed would be the highest velocity in which the reactor can maintain the combat shields at maximum. Beyond that, power would be diverted for greater drive power and velocity shielding. I am assuming that there is some theoretical shielding at high speeds. A small piece of dust impacting a ship travelling at .99c takes us back to that "a bad thing" again. This adjustment would return the ships to the way the were before, is logical, and would make the travelling aspect of the game much more enjoyable. Except that the starting Llama with a class one reactor and loaded would probably only reach about .3c.
Sarin
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Re: Questions and thoughts/handling and the mass thing

Post by Sarin »

AVBJim wrote:First, the Handling. Why does "Mil-Spec" ships always have lower handling/acceleration figures than the civ versions? Shouldn't the mil ships be of higher performance with the civ versions being "de-tuned" for civilian use. They should have engines and vectoring jets that they keep for only their use, aka, mil-spec parts. You see this in the game with some other aspects. For example, shield regeneration rates and even the size of reactors that can be fit in (see the mil-spec Derivative as a good example). You also have mil-spec guns, only available through your local military outlet like fighter bases and fortresses.
You've somewhat answered this later in your post :) Unlike civilian versions, milspec ship have preinstalled advanced parts in their military package, and those have some mass...if you take milspec ship and its civilian version with comparable equipment, their acceleration and handling will be similar.
AVBJim wrote:The mass thing. I know a lot was covered in a previous post, but I couldn't find it, so I put it here. I understand that mass travelling at a velocity has inertia and to change vectors or even to stop, you must overcome that inertia. I also understand that each ships handling characteristics are based upon a base mass. What I don't understand is why that base mass is calculated prior to the installation of required parts, such as a reactor. Shouldn't the mass calculated for performance be based upon intended use and with all common and required parts? A fighter type craft should be calculated at the point where it has the equipment necessary to carry out it's designed function. Standard reactor for class, guns, tracking systems, etc. For cargo craft, performance standards should be based upon designed carrying capacity and baseline equipment installed, not empty. The ship has a load limit. This is not just cubic space, but should also include a mass limit (Styrofoam has less mass per cubic unit than steal which has less than lead which has less than uranium). The published performance specs would be for a ship loaded to that mass limit, again, not empty.
Given the amount of possible equipment loadouts, cargo and such stuff, giving ship a "standard" loadout as base for mass calculations would be much more confusing...
AVBJim wrote:There are also two different drive systems, normal and SPEC. Why? Since different ships have different speeds when SPEC takes over, it can obviously work an varying speeds, so why a second drive system? Also, why does SPEC not work near gravity wells and large objects? The presented technological level must include gravity manipulation. Why do I say this? Simple, you have to have it to create the inertial sumps necessary for humans to survive some of the acceleration factors given. Also, for SPEC to reach such high velocities presented, without inertial sumps, any biological inside it would become "strawberry jam" when accelerating to those velocities that quickly. It must also be able to vector as needed, we have all seen it juke about to miss something we didn't even see. At .99 c no reaction mass vectoring is going to react that quickly. So, if it can provide acceleration and vector, gravity can be controlled and nullified, why not use it all the time? I can understand computer enforced limits around objects and even in open space with the pilot doing the piloting instead of the computer. I say logical, because a watermelon sized object impacting a planet at .99c would look like a 30-06 hitting an egg. It falls under the category of "a bad thing". A throttle controlled version of SPEC, with appropriate lock-outs should be the only drive. Such a system, with the way SPEC currently functions, would give every ship the same performance characteristics. But, using any system requires energy. The performance would have to be changed to reflect the amount of mj/s necessary to run the drive per unit of mass. Also, the energy flow available required per unit of mass would restrict the performance based upon mass and reactor output. This would change some aspects of the game as all ships could no longer reach .99c and the top speed would reflect the point at which the reactor can no longer power the SPEC, SPEC Shielding and Combat Shields. Max combat speed would be the highest velocity in which the reactor can maintain the combat shields at maximum. Beyond that, power would be diverted for greater drive power and velocity shielding. I am assuming that there is some theoretical shielding at high speeds. A small piece of dust impacting a ship travelling at .99c takes us back to that "a bad thing" again. This adjustment would return the ships to the way the were before, is logical, and would make the travelling aspect of the game much more enjoyable. Except that the starting Llama with a class one reactor and loaded would probably only reach about .3c.
In short...SPEC is just technobabble. Its use is to cut down travel time down from real time days to seconds without having to use time acceleration. Is there really need to poke into how it works?
The change...well, if I understand you well, it would greatly diminish differences in maneuverability of crafts. Not a good thing....
AVBJim
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Re: Questions and thoughts/handling and the mass thing

Post by AVBJim »

Ok, your game, your rules. I can either live with them or not play. Thanks for replying to my inputs.

BTW, is there something I can edit to make my ships travel straight at the jump points when exiting SPEC? Stopping and changing directions sometimes gets me killed when I am running away or making mad dashes across hostile systems.
klauss
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Re: Questions and thoughts/handling and the mass thing

Post by klauss »

Just make sure your velocity vector is stabilized before you enter SPEC, or drop out of it a bit earlier to give it time to stabilize.

It takes time for your thrusters to push you into the right direction.
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