Galaxy class armor/hull stats

Discuss the Star Trek mod(s) for the Vega Strike Engine

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tillias
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Galaxy class armor/hull stats

Post by tillias »

Hi all!

I've readed tons of information about Galaxy class those weeks... But there are some points, that we should think together :)
The fundamental idea is how strong is hull/armor corresponding to shields.

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Let us we talk about Galaxy class. Here is very short info:
Defence Systems : High capacity shield system, total capacity 2,700,000 TeraJoules
Standard Duranium/Tritanium Double hull plus 9 cm High density armour.
Standard level Structural Integrity Field

full version:
http://www.ditl.org/index.htm?daymain=/ ... ?fedgalaxy

Now let me make some calculations: Let it be 2,700,000 TeraJoules are equal to 27 000 VSD ( VegaStrike Damage units ).
Ship have 4 shields ( forw, aft, lft, rght ). So 1 VSD == 100 TeraJoules.

Besides that each ship in VegaTrek has another two parameters: Stucural Integrity Field ( or Armor ) and Hull. Both of them can resist to weapon's fire.
I need suggestins about how "strong" they are corresponding to shields.
Last edited by tillias on Sun Jul 23, 2006 10:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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tillias
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Post by tillias »

Before you post here let me make some speculations.
As we remember in "First Contact" Sovereign class destroyed Borg Sphere in 4 quantums.
Galaxy Hull index: 1000
Borg Sphere Hull index: 272,000
( ditl )

Let me suggest that sphere was hardly damaged by temporal jump... So it's Hull index is 72.000...
Even in this case quantum do 18000 damage.... Let it be photon torpedo is weaker then quantum bu 120%.
So photon is about 15000. Anyhow it seems to be impossible!

Remember "Undiscovered country" when BirdOfPrey made 5-10 shots to Constitution class... Yes, I know that it was another era. But then all ships were weaker.

Anyhow main theme is "how is armor/hull strong if compared to shields". My suggestion is like that:
Shields index: 1000
Armor index ( or Structural Integrity Field in Trek words ): 2000
Hull: 4000
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klauss
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Post by klauss »

Food for thought: Quantum torpedoes are much more effective, relative to photon ones, since they kind of bypass shields a bit - the released energy is much harder to absorb by shields than that of a photon torpedo, in the words of the DS9 technical manual.

So, it's not just a 120% difference - play with the difference until you're comfortable :)
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Post by mkruer »

Not to say that I am a big Star Trek fan (at lest not any more) but ST is nitrous for its inaccuracy and seeming to un-invent technology to fit a plot. This is one of the reasons why I gave up on after Next Gen. the only thing I can tell you is use the new specs for ships that people have worked out. I think that there are a couple of technical manuals on line that list all the power and stats for any give ships.
I know you believe you understand what you think I said.
But I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.

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tillias
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Post by tillias »

mkruer wrote:I think that there are a couple of technical manuals on line that list all the power and stats for any give ships.
Anyhow the final word will be said while playtesting. Perhaps when more people will get involved we can polish it :)
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tillias
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Post by tillias »

Well, after month of testing, let me open this topic again. Because of StarTrek is only show and can be hardly connected with real phisical world, let me make some basic speculation about it:

"5 standart photon torps being launched from another ship will destroy Galaxy class if hit it in one point"
Don't worry about internet speculations on photons/quantums/other weapons. Just trust me ;-)
It makes sense in game and it's very close to show :-D

So let it be Galaxy have 27000VSD ( VegaStrike Damage units ) of shields. Due to engine upgrades now ships have 8 shields instead of 4. So signle-side shield is about 3375 VSD. Let it be 3 photon torpedoes toggle off shield ( and in the same time they always do some damage to Hull even if shields are up ). Then other 2 torps should make enough damage to destroy armor and hull of Galaxy class.

Let's decide how much damage should be done by standart Federation photon torpedoe through shields.
I want 20%. It means that if you have shields up and someone launched torpedoe against you, 80% of damage goes to shields system. And 20% is applied to Armor/Hull through shields. Like "leak" parameter.

Is this enough? Have anybody read about it something? Or maybe some speculations based on movies/show?
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Post by klauss »

20% would mean that by the time they take your shields away (with direct focused fire), you've accumulated 60% of a torp directly to the hull, which is like 23% of the amount required to destroy the hull. That means, your hull/armor combo is at 77%. I think it's quite acceptable.

If you consider distributed fire (all 8 taking evenly), you get pounded to death before you loose shields (I mean... you'll loose them, but because your hull damage will eventually destroy your shields subsystem, not because they stripped off your shields) which, since it takes 13 torps, I'd say is ok - those numbers are quite in line with WW2 sub torps: they would usually use 6 torps for a big ship (carrier/battleship), and it would frequently not be enough, but almost.

There's a smallish detail, though... the fitness of that scheme depends highly on reload times, and torpedo accuracy.
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Post by tillias »

klauss wrote: There's a smallish detail, though... the fitness of that scheme depends highly on reload times, and torpedo accuracy.
Well, I guess you wanted to say it depends on shields regeneration speed also.
The sceme is like all torpedoes have big refire time like 45-60 seconds. And do much more damage, than beam weapons do. Shields regenerate at a very high rate, like 5% a second.

Now the most important note. I want to make player always using both beam weapons and torpedoes. But torpedoes are primary weapons. So it have to use beams, to slightly damage shields and overcome it's regeneration ability, while torpedoes recharging.

If applied to Galaxy, it have 2860VSD Armor/Hull + 3375VSD single shield on this scheme. And 160VSD per second regeneration ability. Let it be you drive another "good" ship and fire to Galaxy with beam weapons. If beam's damage is about 200VSD per second, this means that it takes 85 seconds to toggle off one shield, destroy one armor plate and very slightly damage hull. If ship manuever, then this time is increasing.

On the other hand torpedoes are ready to server every 60 seconds. So on this scheme you fly and shower each other by beams/disruptors fire, manuever to distribute damage evenly over all armor plates ( yes, I like to take care of my ship ;-) and when torpedoe is ready, you have to search the most assailable place on enemy ship ( like where shields are downed mostly ) and fire photon here.

Then another dancing with "showering" and salvo from refired torpedoes.
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Post by tillias »

As for accuracy... Let it be we are talking about huge ships and nothing about small ( like Defiant, Intrepid etc ). Let it be I don't know anything about ECM or it doesn't work at all ;-)

So torpedoe almost always hit in battles between big ships, of course if you haven't dodged it. Though on a small distance it is very very hard to dodge it. I made specially small speeds for torpedoes but even in this case...

Special table of all impulse speeds in VegaTrek is ready and I test it carefully. For small vessels speeds are high enough to avoid bolts with Autotracking on on medium and large distances. Without autotracking if ship is small enough you can't catch it even with bolts. So the morale of this is "if you are small and your opponent is huge... observe big distance and use your speed as the best defense".

Though even if you are small, you can try to launch torpedoes from large range and continue avoiding bolts and direct contact :-) And if your opponent have got admired with chasing and forget about accuracy-dodging ( like a big "cat" catching small mouse with "teeth" ) he will catch a torpedoe :-)
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Post by klauss »

Sounds fun.
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tillias
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Post by tillias »

I will increase total amit of torpedoes to 10.
This is due to gameplay...

It makes no sense if ship will be destroyed in 1 torpedo. Moreover AI currently can't dodge them.

So 7 standart photons toggle off ONE shield ( forw, aft, right or left ) and make some hull damage through shields... And 3 torps destroy ship at all. Just one more precise defenition -- if they hit in one point simultaneously.

In real situation there is delay between torpedos can be launched. Moreover enemy can manuever. So this model increases "life time" of players a lot and makes good sense :)
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Post by nbates66 »

hi, i'm new :D

i thought it necessary to point out that i have a game(old, DOS... but a game) that has an Integrated Encyclopedia containing Information about Star Trek Ships, Charactors, Technology ETC, i'm not sure if it's Totally Accurate, but it refers to Photon Torpedoes as being VERY POWERFUL(this game appears to be before Quantum Torpedoes) but causing VERY Little damage when Shields are up, apparently because the force of the torpedeo explosion is spread out by the surface of the shield, the game is based on the TNG TV series (Enterprise-D etc) i just thought i ought to point this out, damage models are going to be VERY difficult, because, as has been pointed out, repeated hits to the same area would cause far more damage, and i'm not certain what capabilities this Engine has in this respect (i haven't had ANY real experience as a modder or modeler... :( )

anyway, just thought i better point that out.
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