Playbalancing discussion

Discuss the Star Trek mod(s) for the Vega Strike Engine

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peteyg
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Playbalancing discussion

Post by peteyg »

Balancing these ships, giving them realistic stats, and making the gameplay fun is going to be tough. So I'm going to throw out my ideas of how we're going to start determining ship stats, and you guys can let me know if I'm crazy or not.

I think I'll begin with some assumptions. A type X phaser (galaxy class standard) does 100 damage per second. All other weapons will be based on that number.

In a Galaxy vs. Galaxy engagement with only phasers, it should take about 60 seconds of pounding before the forward shields are taken down (maybe 30 seconds with a photon torpedos). Throwing in maneuvers, hitting different shields, and other unknowns of battle, the actual engagement would take several minutes. But 60 seconds of pounding with a type X phaser for a Galaxy class's forward shields to go down is another assumption I'll make.

Galaxy class ships don't really shoot their phasers for very long stretches of time. Maybe 3 seconds out of every 10.

So that means that out of the 60 second engagement, there are 18 seconds of total phaser fire. 100 damage/second means that a Galaxy class's forward shields will be 1800 units. Galaxy class ships are cool, so we'll make it an even 2000 units of shields.

Everyone knows that starships can take a lot of punishment after shields are lost. Starfleet ships generally don't really have much armor to speak of, but their outer hulls HAVE been reinforced against weapons and other badness. So we'll assume that the Galaxy can take another good smack with phaser fire before internal structure starts to erode. 300 units of armor

Internal structure is going to last at least as long as the shields did before the ship becomes lost. We all know how often the Enterprise loses shields, but keeps on fighting through the commercial break. I'm inclined to give it the same value as the shields (2000). That may seem like a lot, but remember that there is only one ship hull, but six shields (well... actually 8 right now, but we'll talk about all that some other time). So shields are 6 (or 8) times as powerful as internal structure.

So it'll take 60 + 10 + 60 = 130 seconds for one Galaxy to destroy another with no maneuvering, or photon torps. If torps are 50% of the damage dealt by a Galaxy, then that would make it 75 seconds.

75 seconds is the minimum time. If the target ship maneuvers a bunch, and spreads the damage across all 6 shields, then it would take 30 + 30 + 30 + 30 + 30 + 30 + 5 + 30 = 215 seconds, which is almost 4 minutes. Assuming that it'll average out to halfway in between, that's a 140 second engagement from start to finish, 2 minutes and twenty seconds.

I'd say that's about right for a one-on-one duel. Faster paced action will happen in larger engagements, when multiple ships can concentrate their firepower.
Daemonzi

Post by Daemonzi »

Torps do alot more damage than the phasers, but they can only be fired Dirrectly forward/ backward, and no fed ships have tracking photon torpedoes, also there supply of photons is limited and they are expensive.

-= Star Trek Fan =-
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Post by peteyg »

It's pretty obvious that photon torpedoes track their targets and make course alterations.

Photon torpedos are relatively expensive and rare compared to phasers... but I do not think that the Federation will ever have a shortage of photon torpedoes due to their massive industrial base. Even during the Dominion War.

I think of the strain that Starfleet was under during the Dominion War was largely due to a personnel shortage rather than seriously being hard up for ships and equipment. That is supported by what we saw on the TV, and the general attitude of Star Trek (people are more important).
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Post by Daemonzi »

woops, yea they do have limited tracking abilities, but only enought for small alterations, not like a homing missile.
You can also ajust the payload oif the torpedoes by imputting more/less Matter-Antimatter.
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Post by peteyg »

Why do you say limited tracking abilities? What is your reference?

http://ditl.org/hedweapon.php?13
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Post by Guest »

limited as in they can turn slightly but cannot do like a complete u-turn or l turn as they do not have that much propelant or navagational thrusters. Also as-far as i have seen, in andy episodes/any of the official games. Also in order to tun it would need to slow down and then speed up again, which would require ALOT of energy.
Thats why they dont send probes off and set them to turn around and come back.
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Post by Daemonzi »

Danm, i thaut it was auto-logged in, alo the encyclopedia doesnt mention anything about photon torpedoes being able to follow a target.
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Post by peteyg »

The TNG tech manual talks about tracking and guidance systems.

And I think we all remember the torpedo at the end of Star Trek VI.
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Post by Daemonzi »

the technical manual talks about everything to do with TNg, inclusding navagation, powering, weponry, spacial amomolies, ect...
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Post by peteyg »

on torpedoes. tracking and guidance systems on torpedoes. jeez.
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Post by Nevita »

I'll quote from the technical manual:

"Once given direct prelaunch trajectory isntructions by the optical data network , and optionally updated in flight by subspace radio link, the torpedo's targeting and guidance systems communicate with the sustainer to produce the optimum travel time to the target." (ST:TNG Technical Manual, p.129)

It sounds to me like torpedoes have a fairly limited on-board guidance system similar to modern aircraft missiles (they burn for a few seconds, and can adjust course after that, coasting to the target).

Just my $0.02 CDN ($0.026 US).
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Dae

Post by Dae »

Yea Nevita gets me, thats what i ment, only a photon torp would not require a constant burning to "coast" like a missile, but it can "nudge" its course. (imagne a modern missile in space after one Bursh of burn, it would only be able to turn a bit (by fireing all thrusters on one side to make a sort of strafing motion), as a large turn would require another Proper full burn. Im not sure but i think it would be able to turn upto about 60(degrees) at most i'd say.
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Post by Nevita »

Dae wrote:...only a photon torp would not require a constant burning to "coast" like a missile, but it can "nudge" its course...i think it would be able to turn upto about 60(degrees) at most i'd say.
I would agree with that completely. How easy would it be to program that behavior in, though?
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Post by peteyg »

Oh, easy! We can make photon torpedoes fly out of our butts if we want. To restrict its manueverability, we'd just cap off its yaw/pitch/roll speeds. Or we could give it two seconds of afterburner fuel and some high afterburner acceleration, and let it do minor course corrections on weaker thrusters... or whatever we want really.

That is, once we get them fixed. : P
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Post by Daemonzi »

Dont you mean Uranus instead of "our buts" :lol: :oops:
Sry, extremily bad joke, couldnt resist. :roll:
JmasterJ

hey

Post by JmasterJ »

yeah, I downloaded this a while ago, but found it quite unplayable in terms of these said stats... I couldn't seem to target and fire enough and the time between when I could fire another volley was wayyyyy too long..... so i kept pushing the fire button over and over.

I'm just wondering its been a year since the demo, has any progress been made in terms of playing vega strike as , vega star trek?

also how come some models like the galaxy look so good and some models like the defiant look so blocky, is it a bad placement model? or from the technical stand point, a once good looking model placed in vega strikes engine, which isn't as high tech rendering as say starfleet commands engine, turns this nice looking model to a blocky one? or do you just need a good looking model. wha i mean is do models change appearance once inserted...to look worse?

pneumonic defiant model that is used in the generations at war mod 1.5 for starfleet command 3 is the best there is, he is a friend of mine and if you needed permission to use it i could get it, but i want to know if it makes sense first, because no sense putting a good model in and vega strike with its not so first class rendering renders it bad...

not saying vega strike is no accomplishment it is from a technical stand point and graphical, no other free dynamic universe games out there.

what needs to be done now in vega trek now? has that slow combat been tweaked since the first release, are there any updates to that release?
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Post by peteyg »

Welcome JmasterJ!

First off, we'd love to get Pneumatic's Defiant model into Vega Trek. The only barrier is time and effort. The Defiant model in the OLD Vega Trek was my personal model+texture. It was a GREAT learning experience, but it is beginner's work for sure. Rest assured, Vega Strike can render high quality models in a high quality fashion (just look Pnuematic's ships in our screenshot gallery!)

The reason the Galaxy model looks so good is because it's one of Pnuematic's ships. : )

Right now, we've got a testing release out which we are using to balance combat, ship stats, and iron out the really ugly problems. If you want to get your two strips of latinum in and help shape the way Vega Trek plays, now would be the time to do it! There ought to be an announcement in this forum on that.
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Post by Jennos »

General Update:
*The torpedo problem is fixed for the time being. Contact peteyg or myself for the proper file.
*We're currently balancing the ship's maneuvering capabilities, speeds, and energy stores. Feel free to throw in your two cents.
*Weapons are next. Any advice on canon mounting locations for non-Starfleet ships is greatly appreciated.
All play-testers are welcome. Enjoy!
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Post by WolfsLoveRage »

Geeze... I feel funny even bringing this topic back to life after what... half a year almost? Any way the torpedoes should have limited movement. Once fired they track slightly but that is it. So you pretty much have to be facing with the tube where you want it to go. You can not be looking away from it completely and expect it to hit's it's target.

Also the ranges for hitting the target seems a bit far in game. I do not know of the actual ranges, but the ranges so far are too much. And the firing arcs should be quicker, like if you spin your ship or be at a certain angle you can fire two arcs at the same time. I think I have seen this once happen out of the dozen tries I have done. I should be able to sweep all avaible phaser banks as I turn my ship and then wait for a quick recharge, maybe using some sort of power drainage for other things. Some times it feels like I will start to fire and I stop on purpose and try again and there is no juice which is absurd.

Also there needs to be a sign of some sort letting the captains know what weapons are ready to fire. I am just guessing with the photon torpedoes.

As for the hull being strong, it may survive a hit or two if lucky, but not what had been said previously in this thread. The Defiant on the other hand can take a few punches, but not the Enterprise. Once it's shields are gone that is pretty much it. I would say from what I have seen and played previously that phasers may take 5% - 10% damage to the sheilds while a torpedoe may take 15% -25% depending. Also it seems that the less sheilds you have the quicker they go so maybe a phaser hit at 50% shielding would take it down to 25% or a torpedoe may take it down to 15% etc. Now a smart captain can move his or her ship to take the brunt of the attack on a shield or hull that has not been as damaged and still manuver for another strike.

Which brings me to my next gripe... I have seen no ship thus far that has torpedoe tubes in the rear of the ship. I believe the Klingon Bird of Prey has 1 while the Galaxy type have 2. Also a Bird of Prey should be easier to defeat in terms of power and shielding, but that is also why they should be able to cloak which I have not seen yet. The Romanleans should be able to cloak as well.

A lot of work to be done but there is already a good start and I am havign fun playing it. By the way... is this forum still alive?
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Post by hellcatv »

I really hope so,
I, for one, am looking forward to our Star Trek mod thriving
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Post by Jennos »

Oh wow I've been gone far too long... time to go download files again!
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Post by spiritplumber »

I brought this up to my AI instructor at uni, she said she might show up if she has time.
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