Vegatrek 0.3.5 pre-release

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Vegatrek 0.3.5 pre-release

Postby esgaroth » Sun Dec 09, 2007 7:07 am

As tillias will have to restrict his time for this project in the next weeks and i am alone, i have decided to make a pre-release with what we have so far (if i understand how to create a release package for sourceforge...).
So still in this year to commemorate 40 years of star trek, there will be the vegatrek 0.3.5 pre-release.
It is a zip file, about 500 megs, and windows only (sorry for the others, but win is the only thing i understand). The link is coming later this day or tomorrow, when the upload is finished.
Download, unzip, and start a new game.
What you can do there:
1. Explore the universe. Go to the nav screen, choose a destination system, click at it. Go back to flight mode. Fly in the direction of the destination cross with warp. After some time, you should arrive in the destination system. Explore it. Go ahead.
2. Accept missions. Make money. Make more money.
3. Buy another ship. You start with a danube class runabout. Buy a excelsior, or a defiant, or even a galaxy.
4. Most important: give feedback here. Encountered any bugs ? Inconsistencies ? Some strange behaviour ? Please report here so that we can try to solve it.

What isnt working yet:
At the moment, it is basically a privateer remake with trek ships and races. Upgrades arent working yet. Base art is basically the one from priv remake. Ships arent balanced. So your impressions count. Is the Galaxy too slow/sluggish ? Is the klingon Bird of Prey too weak or too powerful ?
Give feedback, please.
If you have better, trek-style base art, please supply us with it. We are desperately in need of those. And starbases. We have some, but they are almost completely made by me and not very beautiful. Any modellers out there- help us !
I will supply you with upgrades as soon as there are some, and with any additional material as soon as its working.

Live long and prosper, and have fun !
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Postby Dilloh » Sun Dec 09, 2007 9:41 am

Congratulations for the new release - good to see another mod spreading the fame and glory of VegaStrike upon the coldest seas.

Talking about your problems, you said that your upgrades aren't working. If you could describe the problems more detailled and/or post some files, I guess many people on the forum could lend you a hand since I assume you have problems with units.csv or masterpartlist, and csv editing is the basic procedure for most mods :wink:
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Postby esgaroth » Sun Dec 09, 2007 11:30 am

Hi Dilloh,

not to forget, this release was only possible thanx to the help of you, ace123 and hellcatv.
The upgrades dont work because i havent had time to implement them. Tillias had already done some work, so i guess in january i will have some of them working- but until now i was busy with other stuff....
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Postby Nano_Lite » Sun Dec 09, 2007 8:22 pm

Where can I download it?

Also, is it standalone?
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Postby esgaroth » Sun Dec 09, 2007 11:10 pm

It is standalone. And I`ll post the link when its done. Uploading 500 megs isnt funny (6 hours upload time...) especially not when you encounter errors after 5,5 hours...
Im trying now to split it into several archives.
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Postby esgaroth » Mon Dec 10, 2007 8:04 am

OK, finally got it. One day, ill have to talk to some informatic guys about intuitive and user friendly systems.... :evil:

Just go to
https://sourceforge.net/projects/vegatrek
and follow the link "download vegatrek"
You need 3 files: the main vt035.zip, units.zip and textures.zip.
Unzip vt035.
Then unzip textures and units into the main vegatrek directory. Start launcher. Start new game.
As i had some problems uploading those large files, I would be happy to get some feedback whether they are ok or not.
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Postby Nano_Lite » Mon Dec 10, 2007 8:31 am

THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Want me to post screenshots once I've got it?

EDIT: I seem to be having trouble downloading it......the download never commences.
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Postby esgaroth » Mon Dec 10, 2007 12:33 pm

I also couldnt find a mirror that had it immediately after upload- but they write somewhere in their doku that it may take some time until all mirrors have it. So give it a little time- and if you cant get it tomorrow then i try to complain.
And yes, if you have some nice screenshots, i`d like to see them...
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Postby esgaroth » Mon Dec 10, 2007 1:03 pm

Just had a look at the support tracker of sourceforge- seems that several others have also reported this problem. Obviously I have chosen the right day for a release :cry:
But lets hope that they fix it soon...
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Postby ace123 » Mon Dec 10, 2007 7:31 pm

By the way, if you want to test a download, copy the "Direct link" link from the download page, and change the first part of the URL to say "osdn"
i.e.
http://osdn.dl.sourceforge.net/sourceforge/...

OSDN is about the slowest download server in the world, but it is at least more up-to-date.
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Postby Psyco Diver 69 » Tue Dec 11, 2007 3:22 am

First issue I ran into was the Denube sucks, its like flying a brick through mud. After piloting this I would hate to see how slow a major star ship would handle. As it appears a danube should be a fairly maneuverable. Other than that its everything I would expect, which is very cool.

The AI appears to be fairly dumb in this version too, for some reason it likes fly at like 450meter perfectly at my side or right behind me in a circle, at one point to test it I left my ship in a point the Theta class ship sat right on top of me matching my move for almost 2 minutes. The also seem to defy physics and stop on a dime and turn around. Which AI control are you using, I believe the PR mod has a better AI (the ships will fly around you, then move off and reengage) and the physics of the AI ships seem much more believable.

Other than those 2 issues I think its a great mod so far and I can't wait to see where you go with this. I wish I could help in some way. I esspecially like the cockpit view too.
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Postby esgaroth » Tue Dec 11, 2007 4:42 am

Hi Psycho diver,
OK, as you could fly the danube, the download obviously works now. Thats very good.
About the danube: The stats of the danube are almost completely simply copied from a larger ship, the defiant or even something bigger. As soon as there is some more feedback, i will release a better units.csv with this problem fixed. Have a try with the defiant, though. I like flying this ship the most. It is also rather balanced.
As far as i know, the ai is the one from priv remake (well, at least i didnt change it). However, in the vegastrike.config, there are some values in the ai part that might be worth changing (e.g. afterburner use is off, etc.). I will try to find someone who understands a bit about this, as i have simply no idea about this
Thanx for the feedback, more of this is welcome !
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Postby esgaroth » Tue Dec 11, 2007 4:49 am

I wish I could help in some way.

By the way, you DO help us by giving this kind of feedback.
And, if you like, try the following. Open the vegastrike.config in the main directory. There is, rather at the end, a part that starts
<section name="AI">
<var name="use_afterburner" value="false"/>

Try to change the "false" into "true" and have some fights. You could help me a lot if you report whether this gives a different result or not.
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Postby Dilloh » Tue Dec 11, 2007 7:56 am

Since esgaroth took PR as a base installation, the AIs are the same. However, PR's AI was written for small and agile fighters. VegaTrek uses bulky, slow capships in general, so I guess esgaroth should change the roles of all major ships (maybe except of Defiant, Maquis Raider, Danube, Shuttles, Galors, Bird of Preys, Dominion Bugships and so on) to FIGHTER, whereas the ships which are not meant to dogfight should be CAPSHIP or BOMBER. The ships will then pick the correct behaviour from the AI folder. You shouldn't face a galaxy then trying to fly a loop to evade a missile or point with its (not existing) front guns towards a foe.
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Postby esgaroth » Tue Dec 11, 2007 8:52 am

Actually,
at the moment i think that ALL (at the first glance) ships are set to FIGHTER....
So that wont explain the behaviour Psyco Diver mentioned. Maybe the settings in our vegastrike.config make the difference, cause e.g. afterburner usage was switched off. Guess I need some time to experiment, which I havent at the moment (any volunteers ?). But if anyone has other ideas/suggestions, do not hesitate.
BTW, what is the difference between fighter and interceptor ?
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Postby chuck_starchaser » Tue Dec 11, 2007 11:02 am

esgaroth wrote:BTW, what is the difference between fighter and interceptor ?


I don't know in the AI sense. In real terms, fighters and interceptors are about the same size, and somewhat similar in function; and sometimes are based on common frames with some modifications. A fighter is more balanced in terms of offensive weaponry versus armor and defenses, and maneuverability versus range. Interceptors are designed for fleet defense, and are therefore more tipped in favor of offensive versus defensive attributes, since their typical role is to kill as many incoming bogies as soon as possible and get back to the carrier, rather than get involved in long engagements; and favor maneuverability over range, since they aren't typically used for ranged attacks. Also, not all fighters can land and take off from naval carriers; but all interceptors do. Needless to say, fighters can carry air-to-ground weapons and systems, but interceptors typically only sport air-to-air stuff.
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Postby Psyco Diver 69 » Tue Dec 11, 2007 11:22 am

After messing with it some more I have more details on the enemy. What they do is fly at me, then stop on a dime and fly away in reverse, some times sideways! I noticed this was a problem in the early versions of VS too. I haven't gone up against a major cap ship yet, just small fighters, mostly Theta class ships.

Random run-ins seem to lack, but then again I haven't gone around exploring yet, just back and forth from a couple planets. I'll hack myself in some ships and try them later after I get done work later and go around and explore all the planets.
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Postby esgaroth » Tue Dec 11, 2007 2:27 pm

I haven't gone up against a major cap ship yet, just small fighters, mostly Theta class ships.

I guess that wont be a difference as all ships at the moment are set as FIGHTER.
Has anyone some information about the stats in the units file :
"Maneuver_Yaw","Maneuver_Pitch","Maneuver_Roll","Yaw_Governor","Pitch_Governor","Roll_Governor" ?
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Postby Nano_Lite » Tue Dec 11, 2007 3:58 pm

Ok, I've downloaded it, now how do I run it?

I've tried the Launcher, it doesn't run.
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Postby esgaroth » Wed Dec 12, 2007 12:22 am

You have to download the textures.zip and units.zip, too and then unzip both files into the main vegatrek directory (where the other folders like ai, animations etc. are).
Then start the launcher, and start new game.
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Postby Dilloh » Wed Dec 12, 2007 4:47 am

Maybe taking the AI from the newest VegaStrike SVN could be a fix.

The stats esgaroth mentioned influence the power of your turning jets, however if the danube reacts too sluggish, I think "Moment of Inertia" would be a better approach.
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Postby esgaroth » Wed Dec 12, 2007 6:52 am

Just played around a bit and i am a bit surprised. I have changed now mass, momentofinertia, roll, pitch,yaw and their governors and even side acceleration, etc.
Nothing made a real effect ! Just tried it with the values of the dralthi, a fighter that iirc is quite agile. No difference.... still the danube flies the same as before. Must think about that....
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Postby esgaroth » Wed Dec 12, 2007 7:05 am

Think I got it. In the .privateer100 folder, delete everything in the generatedbsp and serialized_xml folders before you make changes in the units.xml. The engine saves there kind of working copies of the used ships, and doesnt look for the units.xml.......
So at least this problem comes close to a solution....
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Postby esgaroth » Wed Dec 12, 2007 8:42 am

For a better testing of AI behaviour, i have uploaded a small mission script
here:
http://hometown.aol.de/atreuter/defiant.mission
Just put into mission folder and then from the launcher first "change scenario", choose this mission, and then "continue last game"....With a text editor, you can edit the types of ships you wanna fly or fight...
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Postby jackS » Wed Dec 12, 2007 10:49 am

re: 'Fighter' vs 'Interceptor'

The VS AI uses the Combat Class value to prioritize targeting choices as per Data/AI/VegaPriorities.csv

You may wish to, in addition to changing Combat Class values for the units, redefine the engagement priorities to more closely match the ST universe.
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