^ - -^ Origin's original documentation.

Discuss the Wing Commander Series and find the latest information on the Wing Commander Universe privateer mod as well as the standalone mod Wasteland Incident project.
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^ - -^ Origin's original documentation.

Post by snow_Cat »

^ - -^ meow, I am using 'original' in the sense that these are 1:1 copies of the original documentation packaged with the games.

^- - ^ At the moment I have found my documentation for Wing Commander episodes 1, 2, Academy and Privateer, of which I have the boxes for the last three.

^ - -^ in the interest of 'being helpful' I will pick 'reference' scans and captures from these games as requested.

^- - ^ one request at a time.

edit: other materials available at

TC Worlds Online : Claw Marks
  • Meow.
TC Worlds Online : WC2
  • pages 17 and 18, confederation and star station
CIC:holovids

CIC:Origin Systems Archive Project

MobyGames:Wing Commander
Last edited by snow_Cat on Mon Apr 02, 2007 1:23 am, edited 5 times in total.
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Post by snow_Cat »

^ _ _^ Don't ask all at once now.
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Post by chuck_starchaser »

Great! This is wonderful, snow cat; much appreciated.

Can you take screenshots in-game?

When I was working on the Bengal, Dual Joe took in-game screen-shots of the Bengal for me, from like dozens of different angles. It was enormously useful, and became my primary reference. He also posted a few screens of the interior of the Bengal, and noted what the general orientation of things seemed to be.

The Bengal is pretty much finished; very little work is left to do on it, before unwrapping and texturing; but another carrier we will absolutely need for WC0 is the Concordia class carrier, as it's the only pre-WC1 carrier, really; except for the Ranger class, which looks identical to the Concordia class. So, a similar job on that one would be great: Ingame shots from multiple angles, interior screens, and any drawings or paintings from manuals or box or other in-game screens.

There's another source of canon for the Concordia class: WC4. The carrier tha Blair flies off from, the TCS Lexington, is a super-old, by then, Concordia class. If you could get WC4 images and in-game movie screenshots of like ships departing and stuff, that would round up the whole package of Concordia references.

Next, or first, as you prefer, would be shots of WC1 space stations. I haven't found ANY pics at all by googling around. I've no idea how many types there are, or how detailed they are. Kangaroo will probably be taking over station modelling after he's done with his current model, he was saying. If there are any in-game screens of the station interiors, that will help too, since, at least my plan is, to have 3D interiors for all stations: both WC and Privateer. This is also something probably Kangaroo will be working on.

After that...

Okay I'll stop here for now ;-)

OT:
No more modelling for me, until Tuesday or Wednesday, when I get my new video card. My current videocard overheated when the fan died and it seems it got partially busted; I'm having a lot of problems when using Blender.
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Post by starlord »

As far as I recall, we don't get to see any terran space stations in WC1 (even though those things are even older than pre war ships), yet we see them in WC2.

We also have a secret asteroid base attacked by the kilrathi during the first phases of the war (pre Wc1): this base is sort of similar to ayer's rock: the mandarin base in WC2 SO2. That base is known as pegasus.
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Post by snow_Cat »

  1. Bengal (interior)
    • Tiger's Claw
  2. Concordia / Ranger
    • TCS Lexington
  3. asteroid base
  4. space stations
    • Candar
      Ares
^ - -^ okay, I'll scan what relevant materials I have, then I will upload and hope that fans won't swamp us out...

^- - ^ I haven't found my game discs, I hop they are with my notes on the file format so that I can extract the raw data instead of taking screenshots.
Last edited by snow_Cat on Sun Apr 01, 2007 11:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by snow_Cat »

^ - -^ I fear that I have lost my WC CDs and will need to either download the games, or install a floppy drive and have all my microsoft and adobe programs cry murder...

^. . ^ moving on...
Joan's fighting spacecraft 2664.128 update Confederation Support Ships page 4 wrote:Star Base
Image
Class Space Station
Radius 1,200 metres
Maximum Velocity 10 kps
Cruise Velocity 10 kps
Acceleration Poor
Max. Yaw, Pitch, Roll NA
Mass 230,000 tonnes

Ship's Weapons
  • Flak Cannon (4)
    Full complement of fighters
Ship's Armor
  • Fore and Aft Shield Phase Shields
    Front and Rear 700 cm each
    Right and Left 700 cm each
TCSN Academy Simulator Handbook Spacecraft of the Terran an Kilrathi fleets page 19 wrote:Candar Space Station
Image
Class Space station
Length 400 m
Max. Velocity 20 kps
Cruise Velocity 10 kps
Acceleration Bad
Max. YPR 1 dps
Mass 600 tonnes

Weapons
  • Flak Cannon (2)
Armor
  • Fore and Aft Shield 100 cm Equivalent each
    Front and Rear 150 cm each
    Right and Left 150 cm each
  • The simulator has implemented Candar Station so you will lean how to defend friendly space stations. protected by flak guns as well as strong armor, it is a hard nut to crack. However, a Kilrathi force with formidable weapon loadouts could destroy Candar if they manage to dodge you and its flak volleys since the space station is not protected by phase shields.
Joan's fighting spacecraft 2664.128 update Confederation Support Ships page 3 wrote:Concordia
Image
Class Confederation
Length 983.7 meters
Maximum Velocity 100 kps
Cruise Velocity 50 kps
Acceleration Bad
Max. Yaw, Pitch, Roll 1 dps
Mass 73,000 tonnes

Ship's Weapons
  • Flak Cannon (3)
    Anti-Matter Guns (8)
    Phase-Transit Cannon
    Full complement of fighters
Ship's Armor
  • Fore and Aft Shield Phase Shields
    Front and Rear 500 cm each
    Right and Left 400 cm each
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Post by chuck_starchaser »

Good on those stations! Finally, something to start from. :D

The Concordia I was talking about is the Concordia class, though, not the (Confederation class) TCS Concordia The Second. The first TCS Concordia was Concordia class, which looks like this:

Image
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Post by snow_Cat »

^ - -^ *blinks*
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Post by chuck_starchaser »

Yep; there were three TCS Concordias, as a matter of fact, only one of which (the first one, 2634) was a Concordia class carrier. The other two were a Concordia class supercruiser, and a Confederation class dreadnaught (the one you posted, which eventually crashes on Vespus).
http://www.wcnews.com/articles/art48.shtml
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Post by snow_Cat »

^- - ^ I have managed to coax Wing Commander onto my HD without awakening activation berserkers.
^ - -^ Tomorrow...
^-.-^ lol.
^ - -^ That is to say, after sun rise I'll start mining the interior of the Bengal.

^- - ^ WildCat has practically extracted all of the CIC:HOT SEXY WC4 MODELS from Wing Commander IV. Over time they have been misplaced (CIC:Wanted: In-Game Models). Thus I bid you good luck finding them. (CIC:WCIV Model Archive Resurrected).

edit:
Wing Commander CIC WC3D wrote:Current Project: Too many to put here.
  • Finished one of my projects! I've been working very closely with Capt. Johnny to make a very accurate model of the Concordia(WC2). I still need to finish a few things, but I really wanted to get this out for people to use and see.
  • Added the controversial fighter, The Hellcat V.
  • -HADRIAN
^- - ^ Is this all part of some sort of challenge?
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Post by chuck_starchaser »

Man! Thank you! There it was, the Concordia class in all its splendor, now imported into Blender... textures and all...

Image

I didn't even know it had "wings" at the back, or that protuberance at the bottom. I always assumed it was a shoebox...

Great hunting, Snow_cat. With the original mesh as reference, we're going to have the best Concordia even Origin wouldn't have thought possible...
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Post by BradMick »

the only thing wrong with that mesh is it needs to be mirrored.
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Post by chuck_starchaser »

It's not exactly symmetric. Almost has right-left symmetry, but not quite. In any case, I'll be doing my own mesh; --this mesh is busted somewhere, full of cracks and weirdness; I just love the fact it's the best kind of reference to have, for like proportions and stuff; no guessing.

Anyways, found colo(u)red images of Caernavon station; probably same model of station as above:

Image

Image

And of the Niven colony:

Image

And the kat base, K'Tithrak Mang:

Image

Notice the ship to the left; if it's identifiable, it would tell us the relative size of that station.
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Post by Dilloh »

The unknown ship reminds me somehow of a Kamekh, so I'd guess it's a corvette. The shape doesn't seem to fit with a hangar.

But I might be wrong, haven't played WC1 or 2 so far, and I don't know if the base in the picture is supposed to launch fighters or not. If it is just a HQ base for planning military actions, it could fit.
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Post by chuck_starchaser »

Dilloh wrote:The unknown ship reminds me somehow of a Kamekh, so I'd guess it's a corvette. The shape doesn't seem to fit with a hangar.
I only know what khameks look like in Privateer, but I'll take your word for it; or at least go for a corvette sized ship. If it was a smaller ship, the station would be too small for comfort, my comfort, anyways; and I'd be inclined to enlarge it.
But I might be wrong, haven't played WC1 or 2 so far, and I don't know if the base in the picture is supposed to launch fighters or not. If it is just a HQ base for planning military actions, it could fit.
I think that gap at front is a door. I think a station is by definition a ship launcher: All stations can station ships; all stationed ships are launchable; ergo, all stations can launch ships... Now, whether there happen to be ships stationed at it at any given time, that's another question.
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Post by snow_Cat »

^ - -^ Reference data from WingCommander 1.
^- - ^ Bengal, cinematic etc...

Bar (lost data from black board, and trainer)
Image Image x Image

Barracks
Image Image

Briefing room
x Image x Image Image x

Launch hall
x x

Hanger Bay
x Image

Launch Tube (forgot to try looking from side to side)
Image

Landing Deck
Image

Landing Bay
x Image

Catwalk
x x Image Image

Outrigger (haven't remembered to record crashing into an asteroid yet...)

Card table, quarters, recreation deck (WC II, not installable- stupid activation system)
^ - -^ I know from experience that each 'scene' is significantly longer than is shown- ^ . .^ but I can't remember where and how it is archived.
^- -,n^

edit: ^ - -^ obsolete images pruned.
Last edited by snow_Cat on Wed Apr 04, 2007 5:35 am, edited 6 times in total.
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Post by chuck_starchaser »

Million thanks, snow cat; I saved them all. This is really going to help.

One thing I notice with gladness is that ships in the hangar bay are behind red-tinted glass or transparent plastic of some sort. If you add that to the fact that the guys directing ship traffic in the bay are wearing space suits, it tells me that Origin did NOT ignore the fact that a big open door to space implied vacuum within the bay. The game canon, at least, seems consistent. It's the book writers that started sticking in plasma traps that allow ships to go through but keep the pressurized air inside, and all kinds of mumbo jumbo, to solve a problem that didn't exist in the first place.
This is really good news. No need to "fix" anything. :D

Question: Is the hangar bay shown after landing, or before departure, or when? IOW, my question is, is it hinted whether the Ferret seen on the hangar bay is about to take off, or whether it has just landed and is being put away? Because it seems to me it would be a bit contradictory if the ship was shown there before departure, and immediately after you're shooting off a launch tube...

Question also: Are there any indications as to where the rooms are in the ship, or relative to each other, or whether the catwalk is somewere in the hangar bay or somewhere else?

Request: Could you get those side looks of the launch tube you mentioned you forgot?

Thanks; good work!, TIA.
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Post by BradMick »

not what i meant. by mirrored i actually meant flipped. the conning tower is on the wrong side with that mesh you posted an image of.
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Post by chuck_starchaser »

Ah, gotcha, thanks, I was wondering about that.
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Post by Dilloh »

Notice the ship to the left; if it's identifiable, it would tell us the relative size of that station.
http://www.wcnews.com/ships2/wc2ktithrakmang.shtml
That is the station, or not?

The ship itself, as I said, reminds me of a Kamekh.
http://www.wcnews.com/ships2/wc2kamekh.shtml
Though the fleet colours are incorrect. A better proposition concerning shape:
http://www.wcnews.com/ships2/wc2ralatha.shtml
The ship is flying from the right to the left, correct?
Could also be a Fralthi in a strange perspecitve:
http://www.wcnews.com/ships2/wc1fralthi.shtml
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Post by BradMick »

http://www.wcnews.com/ships2/wc2fralthra.shtml

blizzam! gimme me cookie!

seriously though, that ship is in the image is a Fralthra.
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Post by chuck_starchaser »

Interesting; the Fraltha is supposedly 600 meters long or so, but the station is listed as being 1100 meters "long"... I'd say that's probably its radius, or heighth; --at least...
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Post by Dilloh »

Bingo... I also had the Fraltha on screen but I forgot about it while browsing through the wc1 ships. I'd say it could also be a perspective error - the fraltha in the background would be far behind or in front of the station. But I'd say the 1100m are not the radius of the station, since all other objects' sizes are also shown in their diameter. If someone remembers the original animation of the picture, there could be other conclusions as well.
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Post by dandandaman »

From memory the ship was "orbiting" the station, or at least going past it (in front of it) ... but you'll probably want to check with a more reliable source :-)

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Post by chuck_starchaser »

Hey, DanDan, long time no see!

I was about to go looking for you. This is OT here, but did you see the Priv 0 project? It will need a few python devices. Just give a quick read to the first part of the wiki page, if you have the time. I'm willing to learn Python but I'll probably need your help while getting started at least. The requirements are all here:
http://vegastrike.sourceforge.net/wiki/MOD:WCU:PR0
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