Title Screen

mat_yarrow · Post by **mat_yarrow** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 2:40 am

Is there any chance that WC:U will have more than 1 splash screen?
I recall that there was a previous thread that discussed this.

BradMick · Post by **BradMick** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 2:57 am

i gotta agree though. the lengthy dissoratation by our good friend chuck about it all being politcal is just nuts. what next, is he going to start calling is pinko commie bastards? nazis?

not everything is this crazy political mumbo jumbo garbage chuck is oh so fond of spouting.

people seriously need to get some thicker skin. holy crap, someone said your piece of art sucks...oh god, thats the end right there! on a daily basis in my art classes i get told worse than that. the real worlds a bitch, if folks can't live with that...well, hell...i dunno.

spiritplumber · Post by **spiritplumber** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 3:13 am

Matt: yes, VS can have more than 1 splash screen, so WCU can as well.

Brad: I try to not get into politics. LOAF keeps up with his policy of being trigger-happy with the "censor" button, but he has the right to be an asshat on his own property, ultimately. If he wants to talk he knows how to reach me.

Post by **hurleybird** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 3:27 am

BradMick wrote:i gotta agree though. the lengthy dissoratation by our good friend chuck about it all being politcal is just nuts. what next, is he going to start calling is pinko commie bastards? nazis?

Brad: You're free to feel that way, as is anyone else. However, name calling like 'fucktard' is very innapropriate. Such behavoir cannot be condoned.

Post by **hurleybird** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 3:29 am

BradMick wrote: people seriously need to get some thicker skin. holy crap, someone said your piece of art sucks...oh god, thats the end right there! on a daily basis in my art classes i get told worse than that. the real worlds a bitch, if folks can't live with that...well, hell...i dunno.

Your rationalizing, a dangerous habbit to get into.

BradMick · Post by **BradMick** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 3:33 am

its not rationalizing when its true. people who critic art are helaciously cruel. its maddening just how ungodly cruel they can be.

the rest of the world more or less runs along the same lines. its not all roses and cinabons.

Post by **hurleybird** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 3:51 am

You're missing something brad. You're thinking of the proffesional world, while most of the 'artists' for WCU aren't even at an amatuer level, they're just beginers really. Hell, I teach drums, and sure I can be extremely harshly critical of others' playing, but its not reasonable to be critical of beginniners. A beginner needs to be nurtured and not pestered, or they will quickly loose the motivation to improve.

BradMick · Post by **BradMick** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 4:08 am

heh...i guess its different folks. when i was new, i was slammed pretty hard. i took it in stride, the comments fueled me to do better with each successive piece of work. i guess i have to remember most folks don't take harsh criticism and turn it into the fuel that drives them.

generally though, my philosophy is kick em hard, they'll get back up..and if they don't they didn't want it bad enough anyway. but hey, i've oft been called heartless as well...

Post by **hurleybird** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 4:18 am

Im sorry to hear that brad, you turned out to be one heck of an artist though, if I can say so myself. I was actually kind of the same way with drums. My dad didn't think it would ever amount to anything, and that pushed me to try harder. It took a few years, but I eventually left him very impressed before I took off to college.

A lot of people aren't like that though. And even if criticism can push some of us harder, I dont think any of us really enjoy that kind of criticism much.

BradMick · Post by **BradMick** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 4:31 am

eh, didnt explain how i arrived at where i am for pity. just statement of fact.

and i dunno, its usually pretty fun, or at least i find it to be. some of the things people come up with can be downright comical. heheh, good times all around.

and yeah, instruments like drums and guitars and stuff tend not to go over to well with parents. the instant their kid decides to go the rock star route they freak. so are you a music major then?

Post by **hurleybird** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 4:35 am

No. I could have, but I would have been without parental financial support...

Right now I'm doing a pre-proffesional program that can lead into a lot of different directions in medicine, depending on the grades you get. Still doesent stop me from practicing a few hours a day though.

BradMick · Post by **BradMick** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 4:40 am

Shamrock · Post by **Shamrock** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 5:57 am

I guess I'll apologize for attacking Chuck, but he still holds an elitist attitude that I find annoying - and his post in common sense is unfair. What I did was out of personal spite - I strongly dislike chuck for his 'brand' of elitism - which is not willing to compromise, but this is a matter best left between the two of use and not here.

I'll be quite frank in saying that the splash screen sucks. It's a rushed job and unfortunately reduces the quality to a minimal level, but personally I think the producer does have a sense of position and space, but he could reduce the number of objects and simplify it, then get something like the Gimp and could produce some good art.

Sure they maybe ingame screens, but a little elbow grease can easily turn pixelated nightmares into graceful swans.

Keep working at it and I can promise you a lot more than expected.

Post by **hurleybird** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 7:59 am

Thank you.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 2:48 pm

Shamrock wrote: Anyhow back to the title screen. First off it has WAY too much going on! You'll want to drop to at least 5 objects at most. A follow 'KISS', or Keep it simple stupid. Simplicity has its merits and there's way too much stuff going on.

Try streamlining the ships shown - try showing different factions, but only choose 1 or two vessel to represent the faction.

And on a final note, if you create a rough design, say its a rough design. If you want people to give a good opinion on it, spend the quality time to make the title screen worth it.

Ok, that's constructive. How do you think about six vessels? 3 capships and 3 "fighters". Because there is a hughe numbers of factions in WCU, I thought it might be better to take just the two main factions: confeds and kilrathi. Both should get one capship and one fighter. I addition I want to take one drayman (merchants) and a talon (militia, retros, pirates).

BTW. Sorry, my english, especially my technical english is not that good. I though "sketch" would be enough. Isn't it the same as rough design?

chuck_starchaser wrote: And I disagree that the screen looks "too busy"; I looks busy, yes, as it should: to reflect the fact that WCU includes ships and systems from most, if not all WC games.

Ok, I really need more opinions here. So we get an agreement...

BradMick wrote:heh...i guess its different folks. when i was new, i was slammed pretty hard. i took it in stride, the comments fueled me to do better with each successive piece of work. i guess i have to remember most folks don't take harsh criticism and turn it into the fuel that drives them.

generally though, my philosophy is kick em hard, they'll get back up..and if they don't they didn't want it bad enough anyway. but hey, i've oft been called heartless as well...

I see things as you do. I was just shocked by the way how serious some people seem to take the thing. I mean it's one thing to take your job serious and want to make it well. But I had the impression that some people acted like it would kill millions in real life if the tower is on the wrong side.
Plus i felt annoyed that my little picture (I did it in 30 min on on the side, just to hear what the guys think of the concept) was used to talk down wcu (what I personally like, I'm no pro, as I said).

Shamrock wrote:
I'll be quite frank in saying that the splash screen sucks. It's a rushed job and unfortunately reduces the quality to a minimal level, but personally I think the producer does have a sense of position and space, but he could reduce the number of objects and simplify it, then get something like the Gimp and could produce some good art.

Sure they maybe ingame screens, but a little elbow grease can easily turn pixelated nightmares into graceful swans.

Keep working at it and I can promise you a lot more than expected.

Could we please stop talking about quality in the posted picture? it was meant to suck in the quality matter. The sun in the backround is a 640X480 screenshot. Did you guys really think i would use it for the final version?

What's Gimp. I use Photoshop 7.0.

PopsiclePete wrote:
Ha well. I guess I must be getting old because I find this whole fight childish. Must be my fault.

I can't agree more. I heard a lot of people talking about working in an organized manner. I tried to do this here by consulting the other guys and extracting the "opinion of all". And this discussion has nothing to do with it. It has it's place in wcnews forum and everybody knows this place. BTW, it brought me back to wcnews forum...

Plus the discussion here make me spend more time on reading posts than working on the screen...

I really miss people posting which ships they want to have in the titlescreen.
Post the names, factions and size (capship or not) (I don't know every vessel in WC)

Post by **chuck_starchaser** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 4:18 pm

Well, I happen to like very much your concept, and the choices of ships, and the font. The only things I feel need changing are details:

1) putting the Drayman on the left side, so that the arbitrary shadow someone put on it will look right. Besides the unwarranted shadow, that texture looks too plain, but the model looks good... darn!

2) For the Caernaven I'd use the Border Worlds one, with the green logo, just for something different.

3) That demon; I don't know where it comes from, but it looks horrible. I started work on retexturing it, thinking it was the demon in game, but then I fired up wcu to look at how the texture lines up with the geometry, and found that the geometry of the demon in game is roundish, not boxy as in your screen, so I don't know what gives... Now the texture on the Demon is like a 5 minute job; let me try and come up with something slightly decent.

4) The carrier looks ridiculous, geometry-wise; and absurd texture-wise. Let me try and at least come up with a semi-decent texture for it.

5) There are 2 Dralthis there; I'd make one of them the pancake style one the kilrathi insys fly. That'll have nice shock value

6) Just a thought --not even a suggestion-- ... Might it not be better for the ships to be coming from like the horizon of a planet below, rather than from a star? My concern is rather technical: It will be hard to get the lighting right on all the ships, and if you do get it right, the ships won't look good... basically, the right illumination would show a blindingly bright side, towards the star, due to the shallow reflection, and the rest of the ship too dark. So, with a star in the middle the choices are for the lighting to look either wrong (artificial) or not good at all... ^^

7)

Ok, I really need more opinions here. So we get an agreement...

LOL, you'll get tons of opinions, but never agreement. As an old boss of mine was fond of saying "There comes a time in the history of every project when you have to shoot the engineers, and start production."

Anyways, I'm trying to come up with a quick fix for the demon texture, but I'm having a problem: The screenshot feature is not working. I took like 20 shots of the demon from all angles, and they all came out black^^

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Sun Oct 30, 2005 7:21 pm

chuck_starchaser wrote:
6) Just a thought --not even a suggestion-- ... Might it not be better for the ships to be coming from like the horizon of a planet below, rather than from a star? My concern is rather technical: It will be hard to get the lighting right on all the ships, and if you do get it right, the ships won't look good... basically, the right illumination would show a blindingly bright side, towards the star, due to the shallow reflection, and the rest of the ship too dark. So, with a star in the middle the choices are for the lighting to look either wrong (artificial) or not good at all... ^^

You might be right there. But I'll try to move every ship into the right position and take a screenshot then. Of course it will always look a little wrong (the only way the ships looked right, would be almost black (aginst the star) and without any contrast). I consider this as kind of an balancing act. If it looks well in the end it's fine, otherwise i have to look for an other solution. Plus, there is one way out. Nobody say that there is only one source of light. one could always argue that there is a second source of light in front of the vessels (it just would have to llok like... hehe). I'll try and we'll see (I'll try later because my windows is completely rotten. I've to reinstall, which will take some days because the semester is starting here tomorrow...

)

I'm not sure if a planet is the right solution because it's a stiff thing. I'll try though... The positive thing with a planet is this. I thought about abstracting a logo from the title screen. I thought of something like a badge. this might be easier with a planet than with a star as background...

blue_paladin42 · Post by **blue_paladin42** » Wed Nov 02, 2005 1:24 pm

Oh good. I'm not going crazy. Unless we both are. Nice day for it really.

Anywhoozits, even the raptor needs work. Its kinda flatish. And I finally figured out what it was that made it look kinda off(to me anyway). Those massdrivers. I know they are supposed to be there, BUT!!! if you where to fire up WC I and look at the IG sprites, I promise you you won't see a single massdriver on those ships. Even the little schematics on the HUD only show neutron guns. Granted, the blueprints show them, but as long cannons. I can't make models worth a damn withut Auto CAD,(and even then, I never made a 3D model before.) but I would suggest making the cannons look more like the blueprint cannons, or eliminate them all together.

I still like being able t make the raptor into a dive bomber though

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Wed Nov 02, 2005 1:44 pm

I guess I'll have to draw back from the titelscreen for the moment. I guess Brad was right.
I spent a lot of time to get screenshots with the shadows right but in the picture it never worked. I guess it'l be better to do the whole thing in a 3d program like 3dStudio or (i guess) blender than putting screenshots together. But at the moment I don't have the skills to do so. But If anybody how has the skills and likes the concept is willing to do so I'd be happy...

Post by **klauss** » Wed Nov 02, 2005 1:57 pm

Spiff: as soon as we have worthy meshes, I think I can embellish them for rendering. But I can't model - we still need to get our hands on better models, no level of embellishment can fix ultra-low-poly meshes.

PS: If nobody complains, I'll split this thread into Title Screen / Remodelling, otherwise the title screen topic will get buried in piles of remodelling posts.

Fireskull · Post by **Fireskull** » Wed Nov 02, 2005 6:33 pm

go ahead klaus.

edit: some of our WC3 craft have bad meshes too... our arrow is just plain ugly.

blue_paladin42 · Post by **blue_paladin42** » Wed Nov 02, 2005 6:57 pm

Is it just me or did a bunch of posts, namely about WCI meshes, suddenly vanish?

Post by **klauss** » Wed Nov 02, 2005 7:09 pm

Here: http://vegastrike.sourceforge.net/forum ... php?t=5781

rockstar · Post by **rockstar** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 7:03 am

Damn reading 4 pages nd end up in just a few relevant posts. I hate forums :p

When folks don't like my work or attitude, insult me or make critism on everything I do or say just to do it, I always rely on 4 letters instead of discussing all the shit people may say. "STFU" <- everything is said and you can save your creative energy for more relevant text content :]
When the keep on complainig and stuff, ignore them. In the end they are the people getting banned from boards...

Back to topic:
Basically I like your concept, Spiff. Wait for some better models and go on working!

I would have an idea for concept myself. When starting WCU I realised the Orion to be changed - front turret available. Beside liking this change the new Jumppoints are awesome. I guess bringing an Orion together with a Jumppoint into a picture, raise quality with some 2D effects and make a nice title text could look quite nice.

blue_paladin42 · Post by **blue_paladin42** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 12:53 pm

Orion's front turret is slated for removal actually. Didn't work out very well.