A few fixes needed:

Post by **chuck_starchaser** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 11:03 am

For the vegastrike engine to better serve WCU, IMHO:

1) Random enemies (or friends for that matter) should not appear at jump points or bases where a game plot mission is taking place.
2) Regardless of whether one is friendly to a given faction, their ships should appear as hostile in the radar when they are enemies in a plot mission. Example: Hunter demons attacking the cargo ship one must escort to Oxford should appear red in the radar, not green, even if one is friendly to hunters in general.
3) Planets and jump points need to have Nav numbers. Or else many of the dialogues must be changed to remove references to Nav numbers.
4) The start of RF when landing in Jolson seems to be enabled the moment you have the gun. It should be enabled only after the last speech by Terrel. Two people AFAIK have already missed the end of part 1 by landing in Jolson too early.
5) The faction attribute, if I'm understanding correctly, is only applied to bases in order to control the type of ships found in the vecinity. If this is so, it should perhaps be hidden, rather than shown in the target display. I.e.: xxx Agricultural is enough. xxx Agricultural Hunter doesn't make sense.
6) There's something weird about the factions that appear where. One finds merchants during the missions for the Exploratory Service, already cruising uncharted systems. One finds them again at Eden; --a place swarming with Retros, where no merchant could possibly survive for 2 seconds.
7) The added functionality in the commodity exchange and ship upgrade screens is very cool, but the style of the screens clashes with the rest of the game's art. Could they be made to resemble again the screens of the original game, while keeping the new buttons and all that?
It would be my personal preference to get rid of categories, in both the above screens, and have prices next to the items, rather than at the bottom after clicking in an item. In other words, plain item lists, uncategorized, but priced.
9) Typing C at a base should bring up the PDA, for save game and so on.
10) Mission generators don't seem to take into account the types of planets, when generating missions. Troy has two mines, for example, which make it a great trade route to New Detroit carrying Uranium and Plutonium. But sometimes there are missions to carry Uranium from New Detroit to Troy. And taking the mission, in the end, it wants you to land in Helen, which in particular, is a planet that doesn't normally buy Uranium or Plutonium.
11) Blue balls for jump points should not be visible from 3rd person views of the ship, as the blue ball is NOT a physical reality, but rather a representation projected by the onboard computer onto the HUD. In fact, having 3rd person views doesn't make sense in the first place.
12) The asteroids in the remake are wonderful, but there are a couple of problems: From cockpit view, it is impossible to know whether they are coming at you from the sides, above or below. In 3rd person view, (using [F5]), it is very hard to judge whether they are small and close, or big and farther away. How difficult would it be to have them project shadows onto one another? That might help get a better sense of depth. Also, in 3rd person view, it seems that collision is computed versus the external camera, rather than versus the ship. I hear collisions when the camera comes close to an asteroid above, even when the ship is visibly away from the asteroid. Generally speaking, in the real world, in space, you'd never find such dense aglomerations of rocks, as they would pull each other together and settle into a clump. But we could imagine a region where many such clumps might interact and disturb each other. Even then, however, the rocks would not be moving anywhere nearly as fast relative to each other. If they were, repeated collisions among them would quickly exhaust their kinetic energy. Well, this is a game, of course, and the rocks are needed; but what I'm driving at is that if they were fairly stationary, it would be hard enough to dodge them, without them flying around. Speed of 50, tops, I'd say. In fact, it is fairly easy to dodge them in spite of their motion, if you're flying a small, fast ship. If you try with a Paradigm, however, you'll find it virtually impossible to avoid their hitting you even from behind.

Penta · Post by **Penta** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 4:51 pm

Re third person views: They're basically obligatory, such as in asteroid fields. Keep em.

forlarren · Post by **forlarren** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 7:39 pm

Or just pull the asteroid fields. The asteroid thing is just a remanent from a bad scene in Star Wars anyway. From my understanding the asteroids from the orginal game were generated automaticly so they were difficult to dodge/destroy. It was sugested before (sorry I cant remember by who) that a fog effect with static asteroids be used to simulate the origanal experence. The fog could be a nebula effect. Or even just polution from mining operations. In the orginal game slow and carefull (or guns a blasing) was the only way to get through. Random asteroids are the reverse with only the quick and nimble surviving without damage.

Halleck · Post by **Halleck** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 7:41 pm

Um... how about not. A lot of work went into those asteroid fields.

Though, people might be happier if we made 'em blastable, but i think that's under discussion ATM.

Post by **mkruer** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 10:07 pm

Halleck, if I am not mistaken, I believe that all the asteroids in all the WC games have been destroyable. Its just that after WC1, the asteroids took about 10 times the damage, and most people didnâ€™t want to spend one minute destroying an asteroids when it was quicker to move around it.

Post by **chuck_starchaser** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 12:57 am

Please note that my request was rather smallish, in the end, simply to slow them down. I think it is a reasonable request. It doesn't make sense for them to be moving faster than the slowest ships in the game, as they can then hit you from behind. It also doesn't make sense for them to be moving fast from the point of view of consistency with any physical reality. Finally, if the purpose of them moving is to give a visual clue about their being free-floating, this could be achieved simply by giving them spin, rather than high linear velocity.

Also, I would like to request that there be various sizes, from football size rocks to very large ones. This would help get a better clue of how far and big some of them are, if we see small ones passing by at high speed, against a background of large ones farther away.

By the way, and with regard to external views being needed to avoid asteroids. This is precisely because currently asteroids move too fast, and can come at you from below. If their speed was near zero, as it should be to be consistent with the real world, then they could be dodged easily without external views. Just looking out the side windows, and occasionally nosing down to check the situation below would suffice. What would be nice, also, is to be able to look UP, using F4. The rear view presently available via F4 is pretty useless, IMO, and could be pushed further to F5.

If some might object that this would make it "too easy" to navigate asteroid fields, please note that I'm also advocating the elimination of external views. If it still proved too easy, there are many ways of adjusting difficulty. Fog would be a very easy one, which costs nothing to add, programmatically, since it is done in the hardware; it merely takes setting up a boolean and initializing the fog function type. It would also make a lot of sense, as an asteroid field would include a wide range of sizes of rocks, from asteroids down to pebbles and DUST.

Post by **chuck_starchaser** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 7:47 am

Another thing:
Having some continuity from one flight off base to the next is a good thing; but the numbers need tweaking somewhere. I've just started a new game, so I'm just trading between Helen, Hector and Achiles. The problem is that after a mere couple of cycles, Helen runs out of food and gets saturated of minerals, and the mining bases get saturated with food, and lack minerals. So, I'm forced to quit and restart the game, then production is back to normal.

EDIT: As I was mentioning elsewhere, it doesn't make much sense that a planet would only have 20 wood to sell, and 14 pets. Maybe the amount of stock in a planet should be either zero or infinity, for all we care. If it's mentioned, it's available in whatever quantity I want to buy, otherwise not available.
Cheers? Flames?

Post by **chuck_starchaser** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 9:52 am

Yet another thing: When leaving a base, the mouse does not seem to be reset to straight ahead coordinates. Funny thing is, while I don't touch the mouse, the ship moves forward, but I merely brush the mouse with a feather and the ship starts turning like crazy.

forlarren · Post by **forlarren** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 10:45 am

As I put it in the CIC forum. Think of the amount of resorces you can buy is not the total amount the planet produces just the leftovers from what they couldn't ship using contracted bulk shipping. Your just a tramp picking up the scraps, so to speak.

Post by **chuck_starchaser** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 12:40 pm

Yes, I understood what you said; I just can't seem able to force myself to believe something so convoluted. So the big transport guys would buy 99% of the stock, and not 100%, just so you can have 'scraps'. I prefer to call an oversight an oversight. But of course there are those who think the original game had no such things as shortcomings or oversights. Of course, they may have thought "having limited quantities will add another angle to the problem, make it more interesting"; but I prefer that things make sense first.

forlarren · Post by **forlarren** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 1:26 pm

No think of it like real life. Do you really think you can rent a U-Haul and show up at the doorstep of some factory and say "Hey Ill take 500 units of that over there"? There are established trade contracts to delever goods at regular intervals. Your just some guy with a U-Haul, most likely buying goods from some 3rd party trying to offload some excess stock from the back room. Most goods are needed at speicific places at specific times. Thats why it cost billions when dock workers strike. They are not going to give you 10k units of goods they have contracted to delever to a speicific places at specific times and just trust that it will get there.

Post by **chuck_starchaser** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 2:19 pm

Sorry, pal; I don't buy your argument.

charlieg · Post by **charlieg** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 2:42 pm

forlarren wrote:No think of it like real life. Do you really think you can rent a U-Haul and show up at the doorstep of some factory and say "Hey Ill take 500 units of that over there"?

Your logic is so flawed that it's almost laughable.

How can you compare PR/WCU to real life? WCU is totally fictional to start with. And in WCU space is so unsafe that large hauling companies just wouldn't be able to operate. There are wars, pirates, mercenaries, and all sorts of dangers out there. This isn't a case of hopping on the freeway. It's easier for places to produce goods and let others take the risk, a risk so great that independent people working alone (hence little / no connection to others) stand a better chance than an organised group who would be easy to predict and intercept.

It is a "trust nobody" environment, one that does not encourage large-scale cooperation by anything other than the military.

forlarren · Post by **forlarren** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 2:51 pm

So your telling me a multi billion credit operation is not going to secure its supply chain and just hope some trap freighter will drop by with food and supplies once and a while... OK sure.... If you say so....

Post by **chuck_starchaser** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 2:55 pm

And there's another flaw with his argument. He says the producers can't afford the risk of letting a little guy like me doing the delivery. But I'm not doing a delivery! I am *BUYING* stuff from them, therefore I am assuming all of the risk. They should love to sell me all they can, rather than risk a delivery by some defenseless, Drayman space-turkey guy with insurance on top of it, probably, so he doesn't give a damn in the first place.

And it's not even necessary to hypothesize. I got an afterburner, and for the most part I don't need it, because the pirates and retros I encounter along the way are already busy attacking Draymans, so I just zoom by, no problem. No need to spend expensive missiles... If I had a Drayman, I'd be dead already.

forlarren · Post by **forlarren** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 3:02 pm

Yeah your right I mean its not like they have an entire guild devoted to the suply chain or anything. Obviously there is no infrastructure. Those Drayman are just haning out playing CCGs I guess.

charlieg · Post by **charlieg** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 12:13 am

forlarren wrote:So your telling me a multi billion credit operation is not going to secure its supply chain and just hope some trap freighter will drop by with food and supplies once and a while... OK sure.... If you say so....

The implication is that there's a lot of trading going on, that people tend to look out for themselves, and that it's a cut-throat low-moral galaxy. If you were to hire protection, chances are the guys protecting you would shoot down your transports and take the goods for themselves! It'd be easy money!

charlieg · Post by **charlieg** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 12:22 am

Ok, let's put things another way.

Even if you were right, it wouldn't change the way things are. Tough monkey nuts.

forlarren · Post by **forlarren** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 1:17 am

Drayman. <-- Explain that. Untell you provide an adiquate reason why large relitivly vonerable transports exist that the orginal designers didn't want you to buy, Im not going to belive you and just assume you want the game to be easier (no limits to purchasable goods). The very existance of a guild (both merchent and bounty hunter) completly negates your hypothesis of a lawless 49er gold rush.

charlieg wrote:How can you compare PR/WCU to real life?

Yeah really how dare I make an analogy. Espicialy one rooted in reality.

charlieg wrote:Even if you were right, it wouldn't change the way things are. Tough monkey nuts.

Funny I though you were the one arguing for change. I like it just the way it is without changing anything (accualy I would prefer it to be a bit tougher.) So tough monkey nuts.

charlieg · Post by **charlieg** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 1:42 am

You're making an analogy based on society now, comparing it to a fictional society (not even the right word, since things are so dispersed in the WCU universe) set hundreds of years in the future.

Put another way, how do things compare now to the way they were 200 or 300 or 500 years ago? Piracy was rife, law was really only there to make the rich richer, and there weren't large corporations.

You might argue that as things move into the future, then surely with more advanced technology and communication then order would be kept. But more advances mean more powerful weapons yet an increased dispersing of humanity across space, so you could argue things will go back to a way of similar lawlessness when the infrastructure wasn't around to keep 'society' in line. You want the former, but in PR/WCU it's the latter.

As for "the way things are", from my perspective this debate stemmed from this comment that you made:

forlarren wrote:As I put it in the CIC forum. Think of the amount of resorces you can buy is not the total amount the planet produces just the leftovers from what they couldn't ship using contracted bulk shipping. Your just a tramp picking up the scraps, so to speak.

There's no contracted bulk shipping in-game? What exactly did you want changing? Nothing? Then why are you complaining? Or are we all arguing for fish when we got served haddock?

Post by **chuck_starchaser** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 2:29 am

Let's take it to a mathematics level:

99% of the business done by BIG shipping contractors. Planet's production variability from day to day, say 5%. Shippers' reliability day to day say 5%.
That causes some days for the planet being 10% short of what the shippers are able to ship, and some days for the shippers being 10% short of delivering what the planet produced. The planet produces, say 1 billion of a given item, so 10% is 100,000,000. Say 1000 privateers are also hauling cargo in smaller ships. That's 100,000 units per privateer on good days, say 25,000 on average.

You might argue that the extra 10% produced one day could be stored for the next, and that, even if available, the BIG contract shippers would get priority over privateers. But, as I said earlier, contract shippers take no responsibility for the cargo. In fact, if they get killed, whom would the producers sue? And even if they had cargo insurance, it would be a hassle for the producers to file a claim. But a small privateer willing to pay for the goods up front offers the producers the sweetest deal. No risk whatsoever. So privateers would get priority, not contract haulers.

Ergo: Numbers for stock of items in planets should wander about the tens of thousands, to hundreds of millions, EVEN IF the big contract haulers handle as much as 99% of the cargo.

In other words, if it were the case that what one gets as a privateer is "scraps", the mission to mission variability should be much greater than stock quantities from around ten to one hundred. Half the time should be zero, half the time should be thousands or millions in stock.

forlarren · Post by **forlarren** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 5:11 am

@chuck_starchaser

87% of all statics are made up on the spot.

I think your production is way off the charts, billion units/day?!?

charlieg wrote:...things are so dispersed in the WCU universe...

So unless your contradicting charlieg and saying that colonies (mining/agricultural/refinery/etc...) are sufficently well equiped/staffed to produce goods in the billions of units, thats 11 billion credits minimun / day for wheat. Hundreds of billions of credits for gems, radioactives, etc... per day every day!!!

Ohh wait, your making my point again.

So lets just assume your numbers are toned down at least a couple orders of magnitide (with exceptions like New Detroit) if I was a proud owner of a billion credit mining station, producing 100k worth of ore / day, you would bet your sweet bottom that I would much rather make some deal with a factory on New Detroit that needs my ore on a regular basis, than rist everything on some hit or miss tramp freighters.

Honestly just the overhead alone. My crew needs feeding, my machines need replacement parts when they break down, people like to see their families once in a while so regular for shift changes will be needed anyway. So my options are to post a freaking clasified add every time my storage facilites are full and have to shut down production untell I can off load. Deal with pissed off employees because the repacement crew is waiting for a ride...again... And if I run out of provisions? Just hope some one comes by and decides to scalp me because I am dying of hunger.

No thanks if I have to I'll just by my own transports, a couple of fighters to fly escort. And staff them with well paid, employees. Your insentive to turn pirate is much less if your makeing a good wage. And that is only if a contracted shipping service is not cheaper, and what type of retard would not make the shipping service pay for the risk. I mean its their freaking job, take cargo, delever cargo. If they screw up often enough fire them and hire a better service, or just do it your self.

@charlieg

charlieg wrote:Put another way, how do things compare now to the way they were 200 or 300 or 500 years ago? Piracy was rife, law was really only there to make the rich richer, and there weren't large corporations.

Ever hear of the The East India Company? BZZZT try again. The world wasn't a great place but neiter was it lawless. The only way your going to get a 49er gold rush, lawless wild west, YEEE HAAAA, is if you find a way to take away the radio. As long as help is just a phone call away, thats never going to happen. And even the gold rush wasn't all that lawless. Its funny but people accually like to coperate for mutual benefit. Yeah call me crazy, but I find most people like haivng a job and contributing something back to society. I find this has been true almost everywhere. If we were all pirates steeling back and forth and no body was building anything, we would shotly starve to death. I dont think people will forget this in the future. Even a fictional one.

So long story shot. If WC is WW2 in space then its WW2 economy in space also. And using modern economc theroy as a model dosn't seem crazy at all. Even with all the gangsters war was a boom time. And big buisness did just fine.

Post by **chuck_starchaser** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 8:13 am

forlarren wrote:87% of all statics are made up on the spot.

Exactly!

I think your production is way off the charts, billion units/day?!?

What's OUR planet's production of wheat, meat, fuel or steel?

So unless your contradicting charlieg and saying that colonies (mining/agricultural/refinery/etc...) are sufficently well equiped/staffed to produce goods in the billions of units, thats 11 billion credits minimun / day for wheat. Hundreds of billions of credits for gems, radioactives, etc... per day every day!!!

Problem with that?

So lets just assume your numbers are toned down at least a couple orders of magnitide (with exceptions like New Detroit)...

I don't see where the need to tone down nothing comes from, but go on...

... if I was a proud owner of a billion credit mining station, producing 100k worth of ore / day, you would bet your sweet bottom that I would much rather make some deal with a factory on New Detroit that needs my ore on a regular basis, than rist everything on some hit or miss tramp freighters.

I don't see your logic at all. Your mining goods need to reach New Detroit before they can be had by that buyer. So, either you pay for some cargo haulers to take it there, and only get paid IF the cargo gets there, or you can sell your good immediately to whoever wants to buy them AT your mining base, and not have to worry about getting paid. What's so hard to understand?

Honestly just the overhead alone. My crew needs feeding, my machines need replacement parts when they break down, people like to see their families once in a while so regular for shift changes will be needed anyway.

I did take Economics 101 in school, thanks.

So my options are to post a freaking clasified add every time my storage facilites are full and have to shut down production untell I can off load. Deal with pissed off employees because the repacement crew is waiting for a ride...again... And if I run out of provisions? Just hope some one comes by and decides to scalp me because I am dying of hunger.

As a matter of fact, you're making my point, 100%. Thank you! If you have all these concerns, then you need secure money, which is when you sell your goods for hard cash, on the spot, to privateers willing to pay for your goods up front. If for whatever reason, privateers don't come around in sufficient numbers to pay cash for your ore, THEN, you are forced to put an ad for someone to make a delivery, at which point you are willing to risk not getting paid, if that someone doesn't make it to the destination.

No thanks if I have to I'll just by my own transports, a couple of fighters to fly escort. And staff them with well paid, employees.

Ever heard of the concept "specialization". Doing everything yourself is not the way to go.

Your insentive to turn pirate is much less if your makeing a good wage.

If I've already paid you cash for your ore, what would you care whether I would turn a pirate and perhaps attack myself on the way?

And that is only if a contracted shipping service is not cheaper, and what type of retard would not make the shipping service pay for the risk. I mean its their freaking job, take cargo, delever cargo. If they screw up often enough fire them and hire a better service, or just do it your self.

Can't fire someone who's dead already.

Ever hear of the The East India Company? BZZZT try again. The world wasn't a great place but neiter was it lawless. The only way your going to get a 49er gold rush, lawless wild west, YEEE HAAAA, is if you find a way to take away the radio. As long as help is just a phone call away, thats never going to happen.

That would be true if there were enough police to respond to phone calls AND they could get there on time. Pirates and retros fly the same talons as the militias do, so think again.

And even the gold rush wasn't all that lawless. Its funny but people accually like to coperate for mutual benefit. Yeah call me crazy, but I find most people like haivng a job and contributing something back to society. I find this has been true almost everywhere. If we were all pirates steeling back and forth and no body was building anything, we would shotly starve to death. I dont think people will forget this in the future. Even a fictional one.

Well, exactly; that's the only way I can justify Privateer's world not collapsing completely. That's how it would be, in fact. I played Privateer probably a dozen times, and I never became a pirate, simply because I don't have the stomach, or taste, to attack merchants. And I think we accept authority, precisely because we'd rather live in peace and prosperity. But if you've ever lived in a rough neighborhood, even a small percentage of low lifers can make life difficult on everybody else.

So long story shot. If WC is WW2 in space then its WW2 economy in space also. And using modern economc theroy as a model dosn't seem crazy at all. Even with all the gangsters war was a boom time. And big buisness did just fine.

As did small business.

I see nowhere a contradictory statement to my assertion that there should be thousands of stock for most items in the commodities screen. Was your post in support?

forlarren · Post by **forlarren** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 2:29 pm

Big buisnesses have thousands of units of goods. These are delt with using supply chains. When billions of dollars are on the line you DONT trust the whimsy of some tramp droping by wanting to buy your goods.

49ers had a donky full of gold, at the very most.

Pick one. Either way you have limited availabily of goods unless you can get in the contracted supply trade. But your talking about an entirely diffrent game than tramp freighter services.

Even during the days of sailing ships buisnesses had contracted regular supply chains. The gold rush was a historical anamoly.

chuck_starchaser wrote:EDIT: As I was mentioning elsewhere, it doesn't make much sense that a planet would only have 20 wood to sell, and 14 pets. Maybe the amount of stock in a planet should be either zero or infinity, for all we care. If it's mentioned, it's available in whatever quantity I want to buy, otherwise not available.
Cheers? Flames?

You asked, I answered.

chuck_starchaser wrote:Yes, I understood what you said; I just can't seem able to force myself to believe something so convoluted.

I think I have proven without a doubt that it is not convoluted, but firmly rooted in reality as the way buisness operates, both modern and historical.

chuck_starchaser wrote:I did take Economics 101 in school, thanks.
So my options are to post a freaking clasified add every time my storage facilites are full and have to shut down production untell I can off load. Deal with pissed off employees because the repacement crew is waiting for a ride...again... And if I run out of provisions? Just hope some one comes by and decides to scalp me because I am dying of hunger.
As a matter of fact, you're making my point, 100%. Thank you! If you have all these concerns, then you need secure money, which is when you sell your goods for hard cash, on the spot, to privateers willing to pay for your goods up front. If for whatever reason, privateers don't come around in sufficient numbers to pay cash for your ore, THEN, you are forced to put an ad for someone to make a delivery, at which point you are willing to risk not getting paid, if that someone doesn't make it to the destination.

I have no idea what universe you are comming from. You know that during the gold rush that many times more money went into California and Alaska than ever came back out again. You knew that right? And with the exception of the occianal miner striking gold most left with pennyless. If they didn't have cash they had to pay with a pinch of gold for each drink at the saloon. Why because they had no recorse. The only ones that were making any money were the ones bleeding dry these "go it alone" loons. So even during the gold rush a good chain of supply meant wealth. And hacking away at some rock alone meant going home broke, at best, and dying of hypothermia at worst. Considering just how much more unforgiving space is compared to 1849 San Francisco, I am pretty safe assuming that most prospecters that dont cover there buts would be dead meat rather quickly.

[quote"chuck_starchaser"]I just can't seem able to force myself to believe something so convoluted. So the big transport guys would buy 99% of the stock, and not 100%, just so you can have 'scraps'.[/quote]

Then ask yourself why Fedex is a solvent company? Its called loose ends. It happens. Little tramp freighters exist because of the loose end nitch.

cuck_starchaser wrote:Ever heard of the concept "specialization". Doing everything yourself is not the way to go.

Tell that to Walmart.

chuck_starchaser wrote:What's OUR planet's production of wheat, meat, fuel or steel?

Are we totally missing the entire consept of colonies? Umm Earth has a popultaion of 6.425 billion people according to the U.S Census Bureau, today! But it took us 4k years to get here.

WC takes place a little over 600 years from now. That includes the time needed to invent intersteller travel. Make it cheap enough to accually do. Then make it cheap enough to have a small exodus. Even if every ship in the fleet was carrying nothing but colonists (and assuming the Tarsus was a top of the line ship just a few years ago), that would still only account for maybe a few million people / colony. And thats only if they are pumping out babbies like crazy. FYI babies cost a LOT. They dont work, and consume almost double the resorces as a full grown adult (the infant +the constant care). You can bet that is going to eat into your production quotas. So I really dont understand where you are getting this billions of units / day number, to start with.

And the last point Im going to make.

chuck_starchaser wrote:...the amount of stock in a planet should be either zero or infinity...

Some of us like a challenge. What you are saying would just be boring. Why would I ever leave troy? Try picking up a Traveller book somewhere. Its a good generic refrence to the sci-fi tramp freighter.

If you feel like continuing this pleas do so without me. I have made my point very clearly. If you choose to ignore it and pick nits without providing good examples or explanations, other than its dangerous, people have no morals, or thats the way things are, I would be a fool to contiue this argument (though I feel I am already way over that line). You seem to be attached to making your desire for infanite resorce supply fit into the world at any cost. Personally I think reasonable limits are a good thing.

Post by **chuck_starchaser** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 2:59 pm

Big buisnesses have thousands of units of goods. These are delt with using supply chains. When billions of dollars are on the line you DONT trust the whimsy of some tramp droping by wanting to buy your goods.

I have told you twice already. This is the third time:
Dealing with contract haulers, the seller takes the risk of non-delivery.
Privateers pay cash up front, so there is less.. in fact NO risk for the seller.

Now, since I've just had to make this point for a third time, it becomes obvious to me that you know you are wrong, but will not admit it, and will simply ignore my arguments. So this conversation serves no purpose, anymore.