WCU Story Development (WCU:2669 vs. WCU:2683 vs. Others)

Post by **mkruer** » Sun Jun 06, 2004 6:29 am

OK here is a quick little faction table I created for WCU, the general idea, like VS is to give an idea of how each faction in the WCU relegates to each other. The relationships like in real life do not have to be even, a good example might be the Mandarins. The Kilrathi might favor them more then the Confederation, but form the Mandarins point of view, they â€œthinkâ€

Bob McDob · Post by **Bob McDob** » Sun Jun 06, 2004 9:28 am

I'd expect the Landreich and Confed relations to be cooler ... seing how they were at war and all ...

Post by **mkruer** » Sun Jun 06, 2004 9:49 am

thats good to, would you speculay a guess, percentage wise?

Bob McDob · Post by **Bob McDob** » Sun Jun 06, 2004 11:55 am

Hmm, approximately -50%, though we don't really know much about that period.

incubator · Post by **incubator** » Sun Jun 06, 2004 1:49 pm

and perhaps for hte Nephilim I suggest total war to everyone, since (story related) they want space to be cleansed, right?

peteyg · Post by **peteyg** » Sun Jun 06, 2004 6:23 pm

I think the Nephilim are already at -100% with everybody.

I think it looks pretty good overall. But is that really all the factions that are going to be in WCU? What about merchants?

Post by **mkruer** » Sun Jun 06, 2004 7:01 pm

The merchants I forgot about, however after looking at what I original had, would there be such a group as Privateers? Really a Privateer is a blanket statement for a bunch of groups, not a group by it self. So in replace I guess the Privateerâ€™s becomes mercenaries instead.

peteyg · Post by **peteyg** » Sun Jun 06, 2004 7:22 pm

That sounds about right.

Separate faction for the militia?

Post by **mkruer** » Sun Jun 06, 2004 10:08 pm

Thatâ€™s a tough one for the simple reason, that the militia by definition would be more on a system by system basis, and i dont think we want to get that granular.

charlieg · Post by **charlieg** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 12:43 am

I like the scenario, mkruer. Nothing to add.

Post by **mkruer** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 5:59 pm

charlieg wrote:I like the scenario, mkruer. Nothing to add.

I am kind of surprised that no one has major issues with this. Back when the WCU was forming, I got ripped that the idea sucked because no one really like WCP, and they just wanted to fight cats all day. Most felt that WCP was a bug hunt, which it was, but even in the original game it was a, cat hunt. If you looks at the stats, the bugs are not that much different then the kilrathi so I never understood the reason why people hated bugs more then cats when itâ€™s the same kill ratio in the end. (although I think that the bugs use a lot more â€œweak fighterâ€

charlieg · Post by **charlieg** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 6:58 pm

mkruer wrote:
charlieg wrote:I like the scenario, mkruer. Nothing to add.

I am kind of surprised that no one has major issues with this. Back when the WCU was forming, I got ripped that the idea sucked because no one really like WCP, and they just wanted to fight cats all day. Most felt that WCP was a bug hunt, which it was, but even in the original game it was a, cat hunt. If you looks at the stats, the bugs are not that much different then the kilrathi so I never understood the reason why people hated bugs more then cats when itâ€™s the same kill ratio in the end. (although I think that the bugs use a lot more â€œweak fighterâ€

peteyg · Post by **peteyg** » Tue Jun 08, 2004 4:15 am

Actually, I think that you should break the Kilrathi faction into multiple smaller ones. Since the Kilrathi Empire is still fragmented at the time of Prophecy, with some factions being all friendly and progressive, and others being all nasty and warlike still... having multiple factions to represent this would be a good idea.

Even if this doesn't TOTALLY jive with the canon (which I'm sure a certain canon expert will inform me), it would be a good idea to depart slightly from canon. Multiple Kilrathi factions means we Terrans can still fight cats, or we can fight with cats... or whatever.

Is there anyone that thinks this would be a BAD idea?

Post by **mkruer** » Tue Jun 08, 2004 8:00 am

I agree, but I am hoping that LOAF will grace this board with his knowledge of the kilrathi, and be able to give a much more accurate clan account. About that only thing that I know is supposedly there was a major clan change between wc 2 and 3 hence the reason for the ships to have a design change.

Bob McDob · Post by **Bob McDob** » Tue Jun 08, 2004 10:42 am

About that only thing that I know is supposedly there was a major clan change between wc 2 and 3 hence the reason for the ships to have a design change.

That's bullesh - the Kiranka clan was in control from day one of the war. It's not even certain there would have been a war if the clans had had their way; look at how the empire fell apart when Kilrah go boom.

LOAF · Post by **LOAF** » Tue Jun 08, 2004 1:35 pm

The merchants I forgot about, however after looking at what I original had, would there be such a group as Privateers? Really a Privateer is a blanket statement for a bunch of groups, not a group by it self. So in replace I guess the Privateerâ€™s becomes mercenaries instead.

Yes. Privateer would be a more specific group than mercenaries - one that is more loyal to the Confederation (or whomever their government is). A mercenary is someone who kills for a fee... a Privateer has been issued a Letter of Marque by their government, giving them the legal right to attack ships belonging to enemy factions. It's essentially a license for piracy issued because it will help with a war effort.

Thatâ€™s a tough one for the simple reason, that the militia by definition would be more on a system by system basis, and i dont think we want to get that granular.

There are various kinds of militias - you might incorporate them in broad terms. InSystem Security (ISS) is fully funded and staffed by the Confederation... ISS pilots (like Blair and Shadow in WC2) are Space Forces officers or reservists who are assigned to militia style local defense postings. They don't have any particular 'personal' connection/loyalty to the system they're assigned to. Then you've got Home Defense (HD) squadrons, which are funded and staffed by local governments with assistance from the Confederation in exchange for various contributions to the war effort (Confed forces can recruit HD pilots and equipment as replacements, for instance). Finally, there's the standard militia unit (like those in Privateer) that's entirely operated by a local government.

Actually, I think that you should break the Kilrathi faction into multiple smaller ones. Since the Kilrathi Empire is still fragmented at the time of Prophecy, with some factions being all friendly and progressive, and others being all nasty and warlike still... having multiple factions to represent this would be a good idea.

Even if this doesn't TOTALLY jive with the canon (which I'm sure a certain canon expert will inform me), it would be a good idea to depart slightly from canon. Multiple Kilrathi factions means we Terrans can still fight cats, or we can fight with cats... or whatever.

Is there anyone that thinks this would be a BAD idea?

The idea is that in Prophecy the Kilrathi are fighting a five-way civil war for control of the Empire... but that all of these factions are essentially equally loyal/subservient to the Confederation. Prophecy introduced the idea of Cult of Sivar radicals who continue to launch terror attacks/pirate raids on the Confederation as a way to 'keep' fighting Kilrathi on occasion.

I agree, but I am hoping that LOAF will grace this board with his knowledge of the kilrathi, and be able to give a much more accurate clan account. About that only thing that I know is supposedly there was a major clan change between wc 2 and 3 hence the reason for the ships to have a design change.

You're thinking of a major 3D engine change

Thrakhath tried several times in the fifties to bind the noble clans to a higher loyalty oath, which would have given him more complete control over the empire... and every time ended in disaster (at Dolos, at Firekka, at Ghorah Khar, etc.). He'd given up the idea by the time of WC2/3 for political and religious reasons (the Cult of Sivar did not wholly support the idea)... so Kilrathi politics remained much the same throughout the games. The only real difference between WC2 and WC3 is that Thrakhath managed to eliminate his most outspoken political opponent (Baron Jukaga of the nar Ki'ra clan) at the Battle of Earth - and that circa WC3 the rest of the clans were becoming more vocal regarding their displeasure with the Emperor's running of the war.

Post by **mkruer** » Wed Jun 09, 2004 8:11 am

LOAF, you have to forgive me, between school, work, this project, and Rylix I am brain fried. So this is what I got,

Add to the Terrans
Privateer
InSystem Security (ISS)
(Im staying away from HD for now)

Add to Kilrathi
Cult of Sivar = kilrathi pirates

But what are the five faction in the new Kilrathi civil war?
nar Ki'ra?

Bob McDob · Post by **Bob McDob** » Wed Jun 09, 2004 4:23 pm

But what are the five faction in the new Kilrathi civil war?
nar Ki'ra?

Kiranka, Ki'ra, Caxhi, probably. Ragitagha and Hhallas are, IIRC, the only other major two we know of, though LOAF doesn't think the last is especially important.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Jun 09, 2004 9:46 pm

We know all eight noble clans, we just don't know which five are involved in the civil war.

Hhallas isn't a noble clan - at best, it's an offshoot of the Kiranka clan if it still exists at all... in later products Origin retconned out various references to the nar Hhallas, presumably in accorance with Hobbes' claim that his family was all dead (Bhuk nar Hhallas became Bhuk nar Som'mers in Kilrathi Saga, for instance).

Post by **mkruer** » Wed Jun 09, 2004 11:44 pm

Ok lets try this again

Nobel Clans ?

Kiranka = hates? likes?
Ki'ra = hates? likes?
Caxhi = hates? likes?
Ragitagha = hates? likes?

Not so Nobel Clans?

Hhallas = hates? likes?
Bhuk nar Som'mers = hates? likes?
Cult of Sivar = hates? likes?

Bob McDob · Post by **Bob McDob** » Thu Jun 10, 2004 7:11 am

Read:

Origin retconned out various references to the nar Hhallas, presumably in accorance with Hobbes' claim that his family was all dead

Also, there's no such thing as a "Bhuk nar Som'mers" clan. It's just Som'mers.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Jun 10, 2004 1:59 pm

I don't think making a listing of each individual clan is what you want to do - the clans are generally the equivalent of human families, and are defined by geographic regions. There are thousands upon thousands of different minor clans.

The important ones are the eight noble clans, the Thrak'hra, which ruled the Empire during the war: Kiranka, Ki'ra, Caxki, Qarg, Ragitagha, Sihkag, Kurutak and Sutaghi. We know that the most noble are the Kiranka and the Ki'ra (in that order) and the least noble are the Kurutak and the Sutaghi (respectively). There's no ranking for the 'middle four', to the best of my knowledge.

With respect to charting out relationships, the clans will all be neutral/allied to the Confederation in the post-war world. They don't trust Confed, but they know that humans have the upper hand.

I played around with the alliances hinted at in Fleet Action, and I think I've come up with the five sides for the civil war:

nar Ki'ra (with ally nar Kurutak)
nar Kiranka (with allies nar Sihkag & nar Ragitagha)
nar Sutaghi
nar Qarg
nar Caxki

All these factions will be hostile to eachother, with two relationships being more fanatically so: Ki'ra/Kiranka and Ragitagha(Kiranka)/Qarg.

peteyg · Post by **peteyg** » Thu Jun 10, 2004 6:26 pm

I would strongly suggest making one of the main Kilrathi factions hostile to a human faction, like Landreich (not Confed necessarily). That way if players REALLY wanted to, they could fly over to Landreich and take on missions against the Kilrathi, which is what people will want to do in a Wing Commander game, even if the bugs are the big threat. I know Hawk did, and he was cool.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri Jun 11, 2004 5:39 am

Yeah, that's a good one to add - Ukar dai Ragark's "dynasty"

. Neutral-to-hostile with Confed, very hostile to the Landreich.

Post by **hellcatv** » Fri Jun 11, 2004 5:47 am

personally I'm not a fan of the era where the bugs attack
I'm a much bigger fan of fighting the kats

that was when WC was in its prime
had reasonable budgets
reasonable gameplay
and reasonable stories

all 3 combined made it great fun....
WCprophecy doesn't bring very many good memories aside from the graphics (which VS currently trumps)