WCU Story Development (WCU:2669 vs. WCU:2683 vs. Others)

crouton · Post by **crouton** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 1:18 am

How hard would it be to have a handful of periods? Anyone who has played Pirates! knows what I'm talking about. For those unlucky souls who haven't, Pirates! has 'periods' of about 20 years, ranging from 1580 to the late 1600s (1690 I think.) Each period had different political changes, cities appearing and disappearing, etc.

So, when the player starts a new game, they can choose a period to start in. That determines the ships available, as well as the storyline and opportunities. For instance, a WC1-era period would have the old Scimitars, missions would be almost entirely military (with few privateering opportunites at all) and most missions would be from carriers, not planets. A Privateer-era period would be just like the Privateer game. A WCP-postwar period would have the Border Worlds, Nephilim, etc..

This is a lot of work, sure. But if the framework is laid correctly, content can be added in a way that fits neatly into each period.

Penta · Post by **Penta** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 6:38 am

Oy, that would be very hard.

Let's focus, eh?

Post by **mkruer** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 6:50 am

I would not be worried about the scripting, that would be easy part. The bigger trick is to figure out what systems do what when.

crouton · Post by **crouton** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 2:00 pm

Focusing shouldn't be too hard, it just requires a careful reading/review of each WC game to determine what happened where.

WC1 was Vega Sector, no? If the player decides to stick to the WC1 storyline, then jumps to Sol/Gemini/etc are right out. Otherwise, the player has a bit more freedom.

If it sounds like I'm advocating reimplementation of the WC games, I'm not... quite yet. But it seems like a logical (and fun!) thing to do. Each period could be a standalone package - this is to prevent crosspollinization and other issues.

Post by **mkruer** » Wed Apr 20, 2005 9:05 am

hellcatv wrote:excellent..I love the era between WC2 and WC3...that's the long gap in development too...I remember when a friend and I were writing our own WC3 story (before wc3 hit the shelves)--my pal turned it into his physics class and got a horrible grade because it was supposed to explain Physics, not wing commander...but it was terribly fun to write

eventually we should aim for an overarching story that actually has time periods and allows a user to cross between them...from WC1 to WCP...but picking a timeframe for an initial cut at WCU is not a bad idea

Actually the time between WC2 and WC3 was like 6 months. You are thinking about the time between WC1 and WC2 which was 10yrs. Becuse Origin change the game engine and it had to use simple ploys instead of complex looking bitmap ships was the reason why it appears the WC3 is years later then WC2. I think that BradMick was working of making some the original WC3/4 models translate better to their WC1/2/p counterparts. Sort of keep the same feel.

Post by **mkruer** » Wed Apr 20, 2005 9:09 am

There should be to start a Major timeline focus. I am still in favor for the WCU: 2683 Focus because it does not run into the same canon issues that the WCU 2669 does, not only that but because the WCP are of vastly superior quality to the WC3/4 models. we could use them right out of the original game until all the original models are brought up to snuff.

Major Events (i.e Games)
Wing Commander 1 (2654-2655)
Wing Commander 2 (2665-2667)
Privateer (2669)
Wing Commander 3 (2668-2669)
Wing Commander 4 (2672-2673)
Wing Commander 5 (2681)

WCU: 2669 (The Privateer Extension)
I will let MamiyaOtaru explain.

WCU: 2683 (WCU Expansion)
The primary idea for WCU 2683 is to pick up where the games left off. The story is simple, the universe is changing.
â€¢ A new Kilrathi Empire is taking shape, however there is a fracture within this new empire. Part of the new Kilrathi Empire want to pledge their allegiance to the Terran Confederation, the other part are determined to have vengeance on the human race.
â€¢ There is increasing civil unrest, inside the Confederation. Groupâ€™s long sense through destroyed, are reemerging.
â€¢ The Nephilem and Steltek are secretly waging war on each other, and everyone is in the crossfire.

Penta · Post by **Penta** » Wed Apr 20, 2005 2:46 pm

Noooo. Keep to 2669. The Nephilim make me want to vomit.

crouton · Post by **crouton** » Wed Apr 20, 2005 3:30 pm

I like the idea of sidestepping the whole 'which game do we stick to' issue with this 2683.

If nothing else, it allows a great deal more flexibility in artwork, storyline, and faction interaction. Even if this ends up being a chapter in the WCU saga, it's an excellent place to test our mettle. Get all the issues worked out here, and then we can go back and do the other time periods in an efficient manner.

Post by **mkruer** » Thu Apr 21, 2005 5:53 am

Thanks for the vote of confidence. If you read into the WCWI story then you see where I would take the Nephilim for WCU:2683. Right now it seems pretty evenly split between WCU:2669 and WCU:2683. I came to the same conclusion you did. Strangly enough I could see something between Wing Commander 1 (2654-2655)
Wing Commander 2 (2665-2667) but not Wing Commander 2 (2665-2667) Wing Commander 3 (2668-2669) by 2669 the war is over , a wrap, all in, all over, brought about, buttoned up, compassed, complete, completed, concluded, consummated, depleted, done in, done with, down, drained, effected, effete, ended, executed, exhausted, finished, fixed, fulfilled, over, perfected, performed, realized, rendered, set, spent, succeeded, terminated, through, used up, wired, wrought.

Buts this is just me and 50% of the people here.

spiritplumber · Post by **spiritplumber** » Fri Apr 22, 2005 4:06 am

I think that WCP was a fun to play game with a bad plot. WC4 was a fun to play game with a good plot.

If we weant to do post-Prophecy/SO I'm fine with it, I'm mostly working on stuff that is independent of settings (I'm not dead, I'm just doing school stuff) like AI, base interiors and so on. Eventually I want to get to the point where if we want to drop in the Nephilim, we can do so in two days.

I think that LOAF had a right idea when saying "privateer writ large", I'm perfectly OK with having the Nephs in if it makes for a more varied background universe... after all you're not Blair in this game, you shouldn't get to blow up planets or call Malcom McDowell a fascist.

Another good thing of going post-WCP is that we can move past petty discussions such as dray turrets and so on.

(By the way, was I the only one wo laughed my ass off when I played WC3 and saw that Mark Hamill was going to do a trench run?)

Question -- wouldn't the Steltek intervene against the Nephilim? Now THAT is a space battle I would like to see.

Post by **chuck_starchaser** » Fri Apr 22, 2005 4:27 am

Is there a link for Nephilim info? All I could find were biblical references. Other than a theory about Nephilim lore being about Neanderthals...
http://bric.users.ftech.net/rp.no38.html

spiritplumber · Post by **spiritplumber** » Fri Apr 22, 2005 9:18 am

Afraid not -- I always felt that the whole Neph thing was sort of glued on, WCP had little to do with WC1~4....

Then again, I'm also convinced that the aliens in both Total Recall and Independence Day were the Steltek.

Post by **chuck_starchaser** » Fri Apr 22, 2005 12:01 pm

Ah, so they appear in WCP? Wonder why nobody says anything that googles up...

Darkmage · Post by **Darkmage** » Wed May 04, 2005 7:23 am

Set it in early 2669, that'll get you all the wing commander 1/2/3/privateer/rf/academy/academy tv/armada/super wing commander (as new classes) ships into the game. Also you can always take some of the WC4 bases and use them. that's over 85 ships! too limited for you? throw in the wing commander online concept art craft. That was what I was originally planning to do, if you want to add nephilim save it for an expansion to come later. The bulk of players will want their old ships and 2669 gives them that.

Canon issues: For starsystems, find out who owned what at the start of 2669 and translate that into the system ownereship stuff, obviously goddard was blown up, so put a destroyed colony there etc... factions should be as fine grained as possible, it'll make it easier later on.

Post by **hellcatv** » Wed May 04, 2005 9:35 am

I second darkmage's opinion

crouton · Post by **crouton** » Wed May 04, 2005 2:51 pm

My only beef with 2669 is that it makes it rather easy for players to assume that *everything* from WC1/2/3/etc... is included. The ships are there, the systems and factions are there, so *surely* the missions/notable people/etc.. are present?

If the decision is to make WCU a totally seperate entity that merely uses WC1/2/3/etc... as source material, I'll definitely lend support to that. The way I'm reading things, however, makes me think we're trying to replicate the old games in their entirety...

...which is a huge undertaking. Privateer Remake was just one game, and it's still a work in progress.

Darkmage · Post by **Darkmage** » Fri May 06, 2005 4:47 am

WCU was never intended to remake anything, except the universe map and locations.

spiritplumber · Post by **spiritplumber** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 5:29 pm

Well... In WC1~4 you're Luke Skywalker (Mark Hamill, don't sue me!), in Priv you're Han Solo (before he meets the dorky blonde boy). In WCU it will work on the same lines: you WILL get the occasional piece of news featuring Blair or Maniac or Paladin, but that's about it. I'm not sure I want them to actually show up in the game because the player will instantly try to kick their asses, and:

(1) making them invincible would be defrauding the player
(2) they would need insanely good AI
(3) it would mess up continuity.

My take on this project is that it's based "sometime during the late Kilrathi war, with the Border Worlds being already semi-independent politically but still very closely allied with Confed in order to defeat the common enemy".

Note that my opinion is absolutely non binding.

crouton · Post by **crouton** » Fri Jun 24, 2005 5:46 am

Interesting point. I like the idea of involving characters from the WC universe without actually interacting with them directly.

Post by **chuck_starchaser** » Sat Sep 03, 2005 1:28 am

spiritplumber wrote:Well... In WC1~4 you're Luke Skywalker (Mark Hamill, don't sue me!), in Priv you're Han Solo (before he meets the dorky blonde boy). In WCU it will work on the same lines: you WILL get the occasional piece of news featuring Blair or Maniac or Paladin, but that's about it. I'm not sure I want them to actually show up in the game because the player will instantly try to kick their asses, and:

(1) making them invincible would be defrauding the player
(2) they would need insanely good AI
(3) it would mess up continuity.

My take on this project is that it's based "sometime during the late Kilrathi war, with the Border Worlds being already semi-independent politically but still very closely allied with Confed in order to defeat the common enemy".

Note that my opinion is absolutely non binding.

Actually, we *could* have the player, say, fly with Taggart to meet with the TCS Victory at Caliban, and, after a attending the change of command ceremony, you have a bit of free time and you can meet Blair at the bar and have a chat:

--'Colonel Blair?'
--'Uh..?
--'May I have your autograph?'
--'Yes, you look like the famous privateer... Burroughs? I'm very honored to meet you. What brings you to the front?'
--'Fame has cost me a very expensive ship, AND my savings; so then I heard the Confed were hiring...'
--'I know, I actually heard all about it. And my autograph might fetch a few thousand extra credits, to help equip your next ship... Tell you what: I'll give you two autographs in exchange for your answering some questions I have about your meeting with Dr. Monkhouse, and the events that followed your missions for Monte...'
--'How do you know about Monte?'
--'I'm afraid there are many things which Military Secrecy forbids me to share with you. I believe I violate no rules, however, in telling you that there's a chance you'll meet him again, in the not too distant future...
--'Have you heard any news about Dr. Monkhouse?
--'Presumed dead. His passenger transport was attacked by the Kilrathi en route to Sol... his eject capsule not found... My question is: did he mention anything about his reasons for being on Palan? Was he really trying to find Steltek artifacts in Palan?'
--'He only mentioned being kidnapped by a corporation and taken there against his will, but the planet then was bombed from space, killing his kidnappers and allowing him to escape. I believe he then sought protection from Rondell, and financial support...'
--'That's what I thought! Bronte Corporation. Lynch's people... I believe you also met Lynch...
--'I can't say it was with pleasure.'
--'Pretty civil for a mobster, considering you were in possession of his artifact'
--'HIS artifact? You mean the steltek map? I never took it from him.
--'Of course you didn't. A wanted, professional thief, and hired assassin, going by the name "Sandoval", had stolen that piece of the map off Bronte's headquarters.
--'I see, and let me guess... hired by Rondell...'
--'Good guess.'
--'... who likely had a holo of Dr. Monkhouse's other piece...'
--'Very likely.'
--'... then Lynch caught and interrogated Sandoval, found out Rondell had hired him, figured that they had the other piece, and had his cronies at Bronte order a siege of the planet...
--'You're a pretty clever privateer.'
--'And you seem to know a lot of things for a Confed Colonel.'
--'Let me put it to you this way: Just because I wear a Confed uniform and a few stripes, doesn't mean I have to be dumb... And you're likely to take an interest on who's really on whose side, if you've spent a few years in a military prison after being framed...'
--'But if you have access to such information, how come you need to ask me questions?'
--'Some of my information comes through unofficial channels; I never trust it 100%; that would indeed be dumb...'
--'Makes sense...'
--'The rest can't be trusted at all.'
--'As I thought... So who were the ones bombing Palan?'
--'I can tell you it wasn't Confeds; and that only leaves the Kilrathi... Some Kilrathi, indeed... Remarkable aiming!... Which brings me to my next question: Through Monte you made contact with a founding member of the Church of Man, I understand. How did your conversation go?'
.............................

Allright, flame on!

Fireskull · Post by **Fireskull** » Sat Sep 03, 2005 12:14 pm

That was really cool... I think people who play WCU will really enjoy meeting blair.

One small correction though: I dont remember if WC2 mentioned blair being jailed, but he -did- expend 10 years in the reserves, patroling backwater sectors.

spiritplumber · Post by **spiritplumber** » Sat Sep 03, 2005 6:07 pm

Talking with canon characters is fine ^-^; even an escort mission would be great. I just don't know about flying fighters with them.... a lot of players, in a "fly with blair" mission, would probably engage him in single combat just for the hell of it, and how do we continue from THAT story branch? ^^;

Post by **chuck_starchaser** » Sat Sep 03, 2005 6:24 pm

@Fireskull:
Thank you; I fixed it; see the 'story line ideas (part 2)' thread.

@Spirit:
Exactly; and we don't need to fly near Blair at all, since you are enlisted and therefore not free to fly off at will, only under orders. So we just don't have orders at the time; we just witness a short change of command ceremony, and we meet Blair afterwards at the (non-alcoholic, of course) bar.

Heltarawa · Post by **Heltarawa** » Sat Sep 03, 2005 10:36 pm

chuck_starchaser wrote:@Fireskull:
Thank you; I fixed it; see the 'story line ideas (part 2)' thread.

@Spirit:
Exactly; and we don't need to fly near Blair at all, since you are enlisted and therefore not free to fly off at will, only under orders. So we just don't have orders at the time; we just witness a short change of command ceremony, and we meet Blair afterwards at the (non-alcoholic, of course) bar.

Whats wrong with alcohol isnt there a point in WC3 wher blair gets drubk and all your flight controls are all messed up

Post by **chuck_starchaser** » Sat Sep 03, 2005 11:16 pm

Didn't know that. Thanks. Alcoholic it is.