storyline ideas

[chuck_starchaser]

(Pssst... he's got other ships, with bigger guns... )

[chuck_starchaser]

Leave it to me, I'll ask him.
Anyways, I'm just curious, I haven't really read this whole thread from the beginning, just started doing so in the past hour... What's the background to this... 17th fleet was it? That's the story of the post I first replied to? And what's significant about the number?
EDIT: Sorry, 19th fleet.

EDIT2: Whom are we going to have as the manufacturer of this pleasure cruiser, if we get it? It doesn't look very WC-ish. It does look a bit bird-ish in an alien kind of way. Could we say it's of Firekkan manufacture?

By the way, I was saying at the VS forums I'd love to buy this ship and turn it into an exploration vessel (just by modding it, or specializing it). If we do get it, I'd like it to be available to buy, for the same reason.

[Captin cocksniff]

Nice plesure curser! Very sleek. I agree it dosn't look very WC ish, could the textures help that?
We should run the idea past sprit, See if she'll agree to put it in (if we are allowed). As far as i am concerned, plesure crusers, would mostly be run by nogood gangsters like Lynch, they would get passangers at plesure bases, and make tours of the diffrent bases. If you are the oppertuninst, if you are smuggleing, you should get loads of cash for contraband on the cruisers (i think). I don't know if it would be avalible on the market, we would have to think about that. immagine if you could buy your own, and set up a buisness, (set a common fare) hehe...

About the best way to write a stroy line. it beats me. But I have been trying to be "democratic" about the whole thing. As yet, i have been sticking to the original timeline and basic outline of the first post, and make changes to that outline when someone objects to something, or sugests something better. So the way i see it, you need both methods!!!

I have been thinking that we should do some polls, to resolve some key issues. like

Do we involve the Neps and if so how?
what interaction (if any) should you have with the seltek?
Do you think the retros are still going?
Should the player get to keep the seltek guns?
should the player get to own his own faction?
Should the kilrathi war be ended dureing the plot?

and any thing else that i haven't thought of. At the end of the day i will be happy as long as you get to kill Hunter Toth.

As i said before, i think it got missed, as yet, i think that the best additions to WCU are the more "timless" ones, like owning your own faction, and being able to become an explorer.

Chuck, we should try and develop your exploration thing into a working concept, so we know exactly the fetures that would be needed (as sprit has said we should let her know if there where fetures we wanted, so if we get it together she might just do it!). So far the obvious one is fuel upgrade for the large ships, and a large expance of unexplored systems on the edges of the sectors. some kind of special nav computer.
How would you make money? My sugestion would be this, you have the special nav comp, and you have a scan button, so when you enter a new system you have to scan it into the comp, and the data is saved, you then make it back to the edges where there are exploratry survace fixers in the bars and you sell them the points you scanned, for a fixed price. Once/if you have your own faction you can take the systems over, but run the risk of falling foul of confed. (as if it was leagal everyone would be doing it no?). Some peole may disagree (as it would technically break the time line), but i think it would be kind of novel to have neps and seltek, really far out. and hidden pirate/retro bases, and maby even some kilrathi and confed black opps bases.
once you sell the scaned systems, they start to become developed? (which allows you to refeul)?


The ^19t fleet was under the command of Admeral Handcock, unlike the other fleets, the 19th, has no area of opperation, and concists of "raider" carriers. these are the light escort carriers that have been especially fitted out to be self sufficient. the 19th fleet, (as far as i gather) was assembeld, after the battle of earth, they take part in special opps, escort duties and supporting roles. the "main" mission of the 19th fleet was basically a "suicide" mission, which took place before the kilrathi started to push forward (destroying 1/2 the confed fleet i think). The objective, was not clear, but was proabbly to destroy the carriers being built, adn disrupt the kilrathi attack force (as confed realized that the advantge had slipped away and they could well be defeted in the next kilrathi attack). The thing that saved confed from defeat was the T-bomb. The inspiration for the 19th fleets final mission was the TCS tarawa, the ship that raided kilrah, most of the 19th fleet never made it back.

There are 2 types of escort carrier (i think), the wake island class (like the TCS firekka from standoff, converted transport) and the eagle class (specially designed carrier, apparently is actually rather big which i don't understand, I don'T know what it looks like).


I missed some of the things earlier.

As far as i can remember. Raiordian (Spelt wrong i think, something like that) is the one you kill working for tayla. There is also the crazy one you kill with the ES, and the "pirate" one (in a talon?) you kill working for lynch, then there is the one you kill when delivering weapons for lynch, Lynch says something like "one of my rivals wil try to stop you", it is this guy i think should be your rival, the idea being that you didn't actually kill him, and i think he is called Kroiz.

[spiritplumber]

Hey guys, just posting to let you know that I'm still alive, currently my focus is helping with the optimizations (if i can ^^; ) rewriting the tractor beam code to take less memory, and implementing tactical targeting, hence why no patches for a while.


Re pleasure cruiser, believe it or not but WC has one! It was in Prophecy.

http://www.wcnews.com/ships/wcsocruise.shtml

[chuck_starchaser]

Yes, that pleasure cruiser is absolutely exquisite I find. Actually, all the ships by tiny paintings have been unbelievable. He just finished skinning his Toad/Hammer and it's the best skinning job Vegastrike has seen, IMO. Tons of tiny details, and an over all solid look.

I think it's a good idea to have those polls, as long as we clarify that the results, while there will be an effort to acommodate them, should be considered non-binding. Reason being, the number of people voting will probably be too small to be considered "representative", and number 2, to the extent that klauss is right about art being left to one person, he'd be much more right to argue agains "art by polling". Myself I have an aversion to "pop-music" and "pop-"-anything for that matter, and I only see "democracy" as the lesser of a bunch of evils (and "lesser" by no big margin at that). But I think they are still a good idea for the sake of comments people will write, to justify the votes they cast. There we might find valuable jewels of thought.

Exploration:
"Exploration" is the name of a song by a Washington DC band called Thievery Corporation. Not a bad band. Worth a listen...
I've been advocating the role of explorer at the Vegastrike forums for a long time; but come to think of it, I should have done it here. It kind of goes together with another idea I was promoting: Space Elevators. Long story. But the background is different, because WC is not realistic at all, whereas VS is, somewhat, and I've been arguing for an increase in realism to VS overall. So I was arguing there that most ships shouldn't be able to land on planets, and those that are aerodynamic enough to enter an atmosphere, would still need spaceport facilities --i.e. a strip to glide down to, and assisted launching. So it would be very expensive to land on a planet and then launch again. So you'd do most of your business at geostationary orbiting stations that feature space elevators going down to and coming up from the planet.
Then, to be an explorer, you'd have to get an appropriate ship, first of all, and then quite a bit of equipment:

1) Jump point identification and mapping computer
2) Asteroid and planet survey and analysis sensors and computer

And if you want to descend to a planet to conduct a closer survey and/or begin colonization, you'd need,

3) A space elevator starter kit (minimal space elevator with 2 wagons)
4) An asteroid survey computer or software, to find an asteroid of the right size to capture and serve as counterweight for the space elevator station.
5) A colonization starter kit that includes housing, power generation, hydroponic food growing greenhouse, tools and equipment

Or, to start building an asteroid mine, something similar but including mining equipment.

The space elevator starter kit would include a basic station, with a bit of space for stock keeping, a dock, a computer for newsreading, refueling facilities, and a modicum of automatic defenses. You can add floating capship turrets around it, of course.

To have something like it in WCU we'd have to disable landing on planets without spaceports. One could buy a spaceport starter kit later, but it would cost 100 times more than a space elevator, and you'd need a much larger elevator to get the pieces down to the planet anyways.
The general idea is that, once you get a basic economy going, the population and income start to grow on their own.

Anyhow, to become an explorer, you'd first join the ES to get experience. The idea of exploring for other developers is a good one; it could finance your deep exploration, but once you find an absolutely perfect system, you might want to keep it for yourself...

[chuck_starchaser]

Good News!!! Tiny paintings agrees to let us have the ship, and better news for me: I get to skin it for WCU
Now, I've posted a request asking JackS for his permission, and of course we'll need spirit's consent.

[chuck_starchaser]

Re pleasure cruiser, believe it or not but WC has one! It was in Prophecy.
http://www.wcnews.com/ships/wcsocruise.shtml

Do we have a mesh for it?

[spiritplumber]

We do have a mesh for it. I think that it's butt-ugly, but that's realistic since I think that all cruise ships are butt-ugly

[chuck_starchaser]

No kidding it's butt-ugly; if I found that in my butt I'd go to the doctor...
Anyhow, changing subject... The server has been a pain in the butt today. Not only it's been horribly slow today, but I was trying all day long to access this one page of this thread, and only now, 5 in the afternoon, finally get in.
How do people feel about continuing this discussion at my server?
I put a continuation post here.
And like I say there, I hate to do this, but today's been just too much.
And probably if we move there, then the server here will be fine...
...but if we stay here it will probably not be fine...
Am I sounding like a Murphy's Law adept?

[Fireskull]

Uhm

This whole pace elevator bussiness sounds weird to me, and non-functional.

Wouldnt it be much cheaper to just build a starport on land? :/ I am sure they have ships that can land on rough terrain by 2669.

[chuck_starchaser]

Well, everything is non-functional before it's implemented
As for being 'weird' the thing is: Moving stuff down to a planet or up from a planet to orbit is THOUSANDS of times cheaper using a space elevator than using a reaction propulsion ship that has to moderate descent, and then force ascent by reaction. We discussed this till we were blue in the face in the VS forums, but in any case, my main reason for wanting it is to make the game more interesting. Essentially, to setup a minimal (starter kit) elevator you have to find a small asteroid to use as counterweight, attach engines to it, hook it on a long leash (a roll of carbon nanotubes), get the wagons out, thread the end of the nanotube ribbon from the big roll through the wagons, and send a first anchor down, attached to the end of the ribbon. You'd have to go on EVA to do all this, and would probably need some helping hands.
Don't take it as even a suggestion though, more like brainstorming; I know it would take time to get the engine to support EVA mode and stuff.
Another possibility is that there'd be Space Elevator *Ships* that you park at GEO, press a button, and the elevators are deployed and the ship itself becomes the Space Elevator Station. It would probably be a ship the size of a caernaven, but there might be models the size of a capship or carrier.
For an example of what a mature space elevator could look like, check this thread:
http://vegastrike.sourceforge.net/forum ... php?t=4912
And a space elevator station is in the works in this other thread:
http://www.coffeebot.net/vsbb/viewtopic.php?t=3

Anyhow, some planets right now in WCU you can only get to a station, not down to the planet itself. So, same idea: Once you build a spaceport, you can land in the planet. Those space stations around planets would simply change appearance and be relabelled 'space elevator station'.

My whole point was to make the job of explorer/settler more involved and interesting and ***expensive*** --otherwise everybody would be in that business...
But if the idea isn't liked, I don't care, I just thought I'd throw it in.

[spiritplumber]

The "space station" docking screen is there as a placeholder for planets that don't have base screens glad you liked it! As for space elevs, they're easy to add -- just put one in as a subunit.

[Fireskull]

Hmm

Yea sounds doable Its a weird idea though... gimme sometime to get used to it.

[chuck_starchaser]

Update:
As I mentioned earlier, tiny paintings has agreed to let us use his Highborn Yatch ship for our Luxury ship, except he won't skin it for us, but I'm quite willing to do so. Next I requested permission from JackS, the Minister of Information for Vegastrike, and I just got a PM from him saying he has no problem. WE GOT IT!!!

Spirit, do I need to twist your arm?

The yatch's thread is here, if you want to read about it and watch its evolution:

http://vegastrike.sourceforge.net/forum ... php?t=4423

Here's some pics:








I'm going to try a skin job on it that's going to make it look its price. Golden with iridescent blue overtones. I'm thinking the ship should appear in game in very special circumstances: Politicians on a pleasure cruise, or someone or other who's really filthy, FILTHY rich.

EDIT:
So, could we say it's of Firekkan manufacture? I mean, Firekkans have to live on something, don't they? Well, I was also thinking, maybe we could make it buyable, but EXTREMELY expensive and hard to find: Like you have to go to the capital system of the Firekkans, and go to an industrial planet there, and there it is, like, only place you can get it, type of thing.
By the way, it's 180 meters long. However, I visualize it as being at least twice as big as a caernaven...

[chuck_starchaser]

Hey, I was just reading the sticky thread "WCU story development..." for the first time, since my eyes, for some reason, seem to avoid stikies and jump to the normal threads. Full of interesting discussion, particularly about kat clans and the Nep... And about how WCU is supposed to be happening after the end of the war with the kats? I'm ultra confused now... If that's the case we could have the plot go into Kilrah at a time of peace and become entangled in an inter-clan civil war. Well, I haven't finished reading that thread, I'm only on page 3; maybe something different was decided in the end... I'll just keep reading for now.

[Fireskull]

The game is supposed to happen after the Battle of Earth, which was a massive strike the cats did at Earth.. they even launched nuclear missiles at the planet.

The confed managed to beat them back after that though. The game will begin just a little bit before WC3, which is when the war is at a complete stalemate. Kinda like the first world war.

[Fireskull]

I was thinking about this... and now chuck´s idea of "exploration" makes plenty of sence and is doable.

WHats stopping us from doing it?

Lazzines? thats true for me

[chuck_starchaser]

Allright, allright, first thing we need to do for it to happen: We need to design a new computer. I'm an electrical engineer, but this doesn't help much in this context. What we need is a computer interface. Something like when you press Shift-M and the map comes up. So you buy this computer for like 300,000 credits at a pirate base... Well, yeah, you think the Confeds would let civilians buy them?... And then fly out into the unknown. So, once you get into an unexplored system you press Shif-X and this computer does 20 seconds of sensing and comes up with a set of waypoints you must visit. You fly by each waypoint and it gets sensed. You come back to first base and press Shift-Y and it does a full analysis of the data collected, and activates the HUD marking of jump-points. So now a whole bunch of normal-looking jump-points appear out of the void. And through them you can jump into new, unexplored systems.
But you might want to start by pressing Shif-Z which would analyze the local system first and make a rough map showing planets, moons and asteroids.
Flying close to a planet or moon or asteroid, having it locked, and pressing Shift-Z should produce a more in-depth analysis of that body. And if you fly around the body it will gather more data, let you know the type of geology, of resources available, whether there's life, or intelligent life, or archeological remains of any kind in particular. Hey, I remember in MOO2 when a planet had archeological remains it produced more research...
X, Y and Z stand for any keys we want to assign that to.

So, actually coming up with an interface for the above is no rocket science, but the Exploration Computer has to also allow you to browse the map graphically, or browse planets by size, climate or resource. For graphical browsing it could just transfer the new data to the regular flight computer as an extension to the standard maps.

By the way, there has to be a big buffer of explored but not on official map systems between normal systems and the unknown. I'm talking like at least 2 or 3 jumps deep. In the middle layers before the unknown there would be some pirate bases, and throughout this buffer there'd be like mining operations and squatted planets.

We need to have also an Explorers Guild, but this guild may only exist on pirate bases, because posession of Exploration Equipment by non government agents is illegal, so the whole business of exploration is illegal, although it is needed, and therefore unofficially sanctioned. Which means that you'll never be scanned by confeds for possession of exploratory equipment. There'd be massive tax witholding protests if they ever tried that...
So, at the Explorer's guild, perhaps you can exchange system data scans with other explorers, get contract assignments, or find out about deals on other exploration equipment such as elevetor starter kits, or colony starter kits. It would also give you access to the buffer zone maps. Thing is, there are no militias in the buffer zone, so the whole place depends on agreed codes of conduct. There are no faction flags. When you are flying through the buffer zone, if a planet is already squatted it reads "taken". Period. If you land on it, it might be pirate or AWACS or retro or unaffiliated; but everybody in the buffer zone agrees not ton interference with each other. Want a planet for yourself?, then keep going.

One thing I'd love to have ingame is magazines you can buy and read..

Loose Ends
Play Killer
Gun and Turret
Comm&Oddities
Pleasure-Thing Me
Battlefront
Termination & Order
Explorer (the Unofficial Heroes' Journal)

..like, to replace the News. Using the same interface, possibly, just with more interesting news than "random name squadrond giving chase in spite of taking damage". As well as thoughtful articles... "Drayman Modding: You thought 3 was the limit; read how this Drayman Modding Master managed to fit 7 medium turrets...". And with ads, to give them a more commercial look.
And with classified ads at the back, so you might find good deals on just about anything, even collectors items "Hellcat I prototype, mint condition"; but specially garage sale type of stuff. Of course, you have to need the deals for them to make sense being there. If profits were a lot more marginal, it would extend gameplay and make it make sense to try and shave costs...

[Fireskull]

I just dont understand why its illegal.

If its needed and all... it would make more sence for confed to just legalize it and keep it under control with a guild.

Thats sort of what happened with b-hunters guild. Thats not realy 100% honest bussiness.

[chuck_starchaser]

Well, because the ES is in charge of exploring, but it's a bureaucratic and inefficient agency, so what they do is wait until a squatted planet or mining operation is getting too big to keep hidden and then they claim to have just explored it. In other words, they let private enterprise do what they are incapable of doing, and then presume of having had a part in the development; to justify the tax money wasted on them. For the explorers and developers this is AOK, because they don't have to pay taxes on land before the official annexation of a system.

[chuck_starchaser]

The *official* justification for its illegality, though, is precisely the fact that outlaws can discover new systems and use them as their bases of operation, of course; so theoretically nobody would have the means to identify jump points.

[chuck_starchaser]

Of course, many people question this government policy and point out that pirates and retros seem to appear from nowhere, and therefore they must have access to Exploration Computers, sensors and equipment; but the fact that you *could* discover jump-points simply by pressing J repeatedly while combing space in a fine search pattern, lends the government side the benefit of the doubt.

[Fireskull]

by the way...

I am all for having that ship be buyable somehow. I can really see myself doing crazy cargo runs at vega sector border with the kilrathi with it

[chuck_starchaser]

Gorgeous, eh? I fell in love with this ship at first sight. Ironically it's tiny painting's first ship design ever. First thing I noticed was how wide he managed to make the front window, while keeping it bump-protected. Then JackS said "this is a yatch, a Higborn yatch" and asked tiny paintings for a lot of little improvements, like a more prominent underbelly, retro thrusters and what not. And it became an incredibly good looking and well thought out ship.
Now, my problem is this ship is supposed to be 180 meters long, whereas a caernaven is supposed to be 300+ meters long... But I can't imagine this being smaller than a caernaven or a Drayman. I think of it as the Concord. A ship very fast and maneuverable despite its pretty large size. I'd like it to be at least twice as big as a caernaven. I'd think of the caernaven as your "poor man's capship", but once you move on from that income bracket and own a whole system, and your income is getting astronomical, you could buy this baby and kick REAL butt. Like the Ultimate Ship. A quasi-capship that can non-the-less out-speed Dralthis, get to its destination quickly, and spew a swarm of Hellcats... As well as launch like 50 jumbo sized torpedos at a base almost all at once and write it off.

[spiritplumber]

wow, exploration @_@; that's going to be ceeerazy to implement.